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Heavy parasite load found in ball python from Ed Clark

Unfortunately, I have to agree. If it had been me, I would have gotten the issue handled and simply never brought from this person again because the question of where the parasites came from would be in the back of my mind.

But thanks for posting, I have brought from numerous people that I trust, and had random samplings taken, only one of my BPs had internal parasites, but she was a rescue given to me that was found wandering.

If I now do a sampling and find parasites (I also breed my own rats) I would have to have it taken care of by the vet because I have had the animals for too long.

BUT...I understand completely what you are saying..if the infestation came from your rat colony the rest of them should be infected too. I think a lot of readers are like me, we read, learn, we don't often post...but oh... we DO learn.
 
kbmxc said:
He's taking time to plan a response. I believe that is what he has done in the past when questioned about something. He doesn't want to jump in and let something slip that will give him away, as happens with others on here. He may be a reseller with less then honest business practices but he's not a complete moron. After all, he has done quite well convincing casual hobbyist that he hatches all of his own animals instead of buying them wholesale and mixing them in with his own breeders, imports, what have you. It's all planned out, as will be his response....when he can think of it.

K. Banks
Click to expand...

Actually....his customary tactic at this point is more often to completely avoid the questions asked....pretend none of it exists. Other than that, I would agree with your post. ;)

I purchased a couple of animals from Ed awhile back, before knowing a lot of the things I know now about him. I honestly was pleased with the animals, and they have done fine for me, and NO, I did not have them tested for parasites when they came in. I do not test everything new that comes in unless I have an issue with them, but maintain a good period of quarantine.

I think at this point, however, it is time for my periodic random fecals to get a lot less random. :rolleyes:
 
what was the date that the buyer recived these animals. exactly how long ago was this???????????
 
JenHarrison said:
I have been following this thread and after seeing the vet reports posted, I do have a question -- is Panacur a cure-all for all parasites? Or just those 3 that were discovered? I thought that tapeworms required a separate treatment?
Click to expand...
The Panacur is for the tapeworms and strongyloides. I was given Albon for the coccidia.
 
fish21 said:
that is because i was wondering if this is the same story i herd about around a year ago or a new case
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Matt, are you saying that you know of another case where someone received ball pythons from Ed that had an internal parasite load? Or are you confusing the mite situation with this one?
 
At what point can a breeder wash their hands of an animal they sell or trade for.
If you represent your animals as being quality then they are quality from day one. The idea is that a parasite infestation that can hide for a year or more can't be narrowed down to a date that the animals acquired them.

The questions was posed what if this had been Ralph or some others. If you call Ralph Davis and tell him that an animal you got and gave proper QT time now shows a parasite infection that your vet say could have been there for up to a year or more. I'd bet my collection most breeders would give their right arm to make it right. Even if they weren't at fault the possibility should still be enough to spur some action.

Emily appears to be just one of a long line of dissatisfied customers. Yes there are some that have dealt with Ed Clark and not had any problems. Emily thought she was one also. But the fact remains that the lack of action seems all to familiar of other issues that have come to a head else where.

Just my two cents
 
Lot to digest here. And a lot to seperate and examine, very little of it has much to do with the animals though.

We've got a few people who I think are being a little more... zealous... than they would have been had it not been Ed. A few people who came to conclusions that took their opinion of Ed into account but haven't railroaded the issue, a few who are trying their damndest to be impartial and a few (a pair anyway) who are playing the labrador retriever humping the leg of a party guest.

Ten months is too long to blame Ed in a technical sense. Too many variables, too many potentials, too many questions and too many alternative possibilities.

I think ten months is way too long to blame Ed in a moral sense as well. Even if, strictly as a hypothetical, the parasites were present in the animals at the time of sale- if the effects weren't noticed and it wasn't apparant that they were present for ten months... How the hell can he be guilty of any ethical misdeed? Captive bred or captive hatched is an important distinction but not one which really has anything to do with parasites being found nearly a year later. The condition doesn't really function to bring rise to the question, not logically anyway.

People do fecals as part of their quaranteen process. When... they know the animal is wild caught, when they know the animal has been kept in conditions that make it's exposure to possible parasite loads a likely scenario, when they see physical issues with weight loss or when they see some strange stool. It's just not reasonable to excuse the lack of an immediate fecal after Emily's purchase and then simultaneously condemn Ed for his failure to have one done prior to the sale.
 
Emily and mr. clark come into contact.

Emily is assured by mr. clark that she will NOT find cleaner ball pythons anywhere.

Emily and mr. clark decide to trade some of his CAPTIVE BORN AND BRED FUTURE BREEDER ball pythons for some of her Crested Geckos.

A value of $100.00 is placed by mr. clark on his CAPTIVE BORN AND BRED HOLDBACK FUTURE BREEDERS.

The trade is made in Nov. of 06 and all parties are pleased. Emily is happy with the CAPTIVE BORN AND BRED HOLDBACK formerly FUTURE BREEDERS as is mr. clark with his Crested Geckos.

10 months pass.

Emily discovers a HUGE slimy mass of mucus covered goo in her cage with one of the CAPTIVE BORN AND BRED formerly FUTURE BREEDERS she obtained from mr. clark.

Emily contacts mr. clark, explaining that she has had the snakes isolated, breeds her own rats, practices exemplary cleaning and disinfecting routines, does not crossfeed food items, has almost no outside contact to her snakes, the CAPTIVE BORN AND BRED HOLDBACK formerly FUTURE BREEDERS she obtained from mr. clark as well as the other snakes she keeps.
Emily did aquire 2 other Ball Pythons between the time she got the CAPTIVE BORN AND BRED HOLDBACK formerly FUTURE BREEDERS from mr. clark. The two new snakes were also quarantined, had NO contact with any other snakes were NOT crossfed prey items or moved into the unsterilzed container used by any other reptile.



Ten months go by and one day Emily discovers a LARGE slimy mucusy mass of goo has been discharged by one of the CAPTIVE BORN AND BRED HOLDBACK formerly FUTURE BREEDERS she obtained from mr. clark.

Emily, asking for NOTHING in return, notifies mr. clark that one of his CAPTIVE BORN AND BRED HOLDBACK formerly FUTURE BREEDERS has not only tapeworms, but STRONGYLES and COCCIDIA as well.

Suddenly mr. clark is not ABSOLUTELY positive that he sent Emily CAPTIVE BORN AND BRED HOLDBACK formerly FUTURE BREEDERS. He suspects she may have gotten imported females by “mistake” and mr. clark tells Emily he will look into it and let her know. He also INSISTS that the parasites could in NO WAY have come from his snakes.

There was NEVER another contact by mr. clark to Emily. He has simply ignored her.

Emily, after notifying mr. clark of her intentions, made the issue public, still asking for NOTHING, merely wanting to let others who may ALSO have been duped by mr. clark or simply have purchased animals from him, that they may want to have their animals checked so they too do not receive unpleasant slimy surprised from “the cleanest snakes out there,” as mr. clark purported his stock to be.

As of this writing, Sept. 19, 2007, mr. clark has still done NOTHING about this.

Emily still does not know for certain whether she has imported snakes or the CAPTIVE BORN AND BRED HOLDBACK formerly FUTURE BREEDERS mr. clark said he was sending her.

Emily has posted Vet reports on the known infected snake and is in the process of getting all her other snakes tested and she will make the results known publicly.

There was a statement made by mr. clark that he randomly tests his snakes and that ALL random tests have come back negative for any infestation. As of today, mr. clark has refused to post those tests. Some doubt there ever were any tests.

I think that sums it up to date. Emily has been forthcoming and honest throughout, asking for NOTHING. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for mr. clark.
 
I still think it is DIFFICULT to say that the parasites were from Ed although it does STRONGLY appear that way.
 
JenHarrison said:
I have been following this thread and after seeing the vet reports posted, I do have a question -- is Panacur a cure-all for all parasites? Or just those 3 that were discovered? I thought that tapeworms required a separate treatment?
Click to expand...
Jen - there is no "cure-all for all parasites", and Panacur isn't even close. In fact, it is only appropriate for one of the 3 parasites being discussed (strongyles)...and it isn't necessarily the best option for those. For coccidia, the DOC is (or, at least, was) Sulfadimethoxine; I used to use Droncit for tapeworms.
 
hhmoore said:
Jen - there is no "cure-all for all parasites", and Panacur isn't even close. In fact, it is only appropriate for one of the 3 parasites being discussed (strongyles)...and it isn't necessarily the best option for those. For coccidia, the DOC is (or, at least, was) Sulfadimethoxine; I used to use Droncit for tapeworms.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this info. If after treatment this snake still tests positive for anything I will ask about the treatments you mention here.
 
I still think it is DIFFICULT to say that the parasites were from Ed although it does STRONGLY appear that way.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but even if the parasites did come from Ed it doesn't mean the snakes weren't exactly what Ed described them as. Which is part of accusation.
 
Agreed, but even if the parasites did come from Ed it doesn't mean the snakes weren't exactly what Ed described them as. Which is part of accusation.
Click to expand...

Ed described them as, "as clean as you can find", implying that they did not carry parasites. So "even if" the parasites did come from Ed, they were NOT exactly as he described them.

The point is, Emily posted this as a heads up to anyone else who purchased snakes from Ed to get them tested. Nothing more, nothing less.

I know she has the burden of proof, but this is playing out just the way Ed wants it to and the way he always operates. He doesn't participate, the attention remains focused on Emily, not him. And he can do the "who? me?" act.
 
Emily - the Panacur should deal with the strongyles, and the Albon is appropriate for coccidia. The tapeworms are the only thing not really strongly addressed at this point, and, as has already been stated, they may not show up on fecals anyway. Are you saying that your vet prescribed fenbendazole for tapeworms? That's news to me, but I don't have DVM after my name, either.
Sorry you have to go through this hassle...but it happens :shrug01:
 
Ed described them as, "as clean as you can find", implying that they did not carry parasites. So "even if" the parasites did come from Ed, they were NOT exactly as he described them.
Click to expand...

Possibly assuming Ed knew they had parasites. I believe Emily was trying to make the point that since they had parasites they could not be captive born as Ed described, which has been shown to be not necessarily the case.
 
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