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Help Identifying my Leo's

manning0621

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OK so here is the de. I bought my male which is the Albino back last year in august. I'm not exactly sure what kind of Albino he is. Then I bought my female this year in Jan. I was informed she is a mack snow but she looks like a possible wild type. Then they bred and the pic of the baby to me looks like a wild type. I'm going crazy trying to figure it all out SL I finally dcided its time to see what everyone else things. I feel dumb not knowing but everyone has to learn. PLEASE help clear my head lol.
 

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The babies will all be het for whatever type of albino you have. However, it's never a good idea to breed geckos with unknown genetics.
 
Everyone has to start somewhere. I'm not looking to become a mass breeder. This is purely for my love of the animals. I know and understand the responsiblity of breeding leo's and i also understand the amount of time that i will have the new babies in my care.That is why I am here. I'm trying to get as much help identifying them as possible.
 
Everyone has to start somewhere. I'm not looking to become a mass breeder. This is purely for my love of the animals. I know and understand the responsiblity of breeding leo's and i also understand the amount of time that i will have the new babies in my care.That is why I am here. I'm trying to get as much help identifying them as possible.

It's about putting geckos with unknown genetics out there. Yes everyone needs to start somewhere and that's with research first. This has nothing to do with mass breeding or taking care of babies. If geckos like this get out to the public, someone like you could breed it to another gecko with unknown genetics. It messes everything up for breeders who know what they are doing. It's not ethical to breed animals like this. Sorry it's harsh, but it's what you are going to hear from everyone.
 
I'm not here for harsh answers. You are a breeder yourself yet you made no effort to identify what they are or help out. All you want to point out is they are unknown. I have made months upon months of research and buying my male knowing he was an albino I came down to either a tremper or a rainwater. So I am not completely oblivious to the possibilities. As for my female it is hard to tell because I did not see her as a baby. And if geckos with unknown genetics are out there breeders do not need to buy from me. Not everyone has a passion to breed. Not everyone wants to go to the next step with animals they have so its not hurting anything. I understand where you are coming from but yet I did not ask to be coached on what others want.
 
I'm not here for harsh answers. You are a breeder yourself yet you made no effort to identify what they are or help out. All you want to point out is they are unknown. I have made months upon months of research and buying my male knowing he was an albino I came down to either a tremper or a rainwater. So I am not completely oblivious to the possibilities. As for my female it is hard to tell because I did not see her as a baby. And if geckos with unknown genetics are out there breeders do not need to buy from me. Not everyone has a passion to breed. Not everyone wants to go to the next step with animals they have so its not hurting anything. I understand where you are coming from but yet I did not ask to be coached on what others want.

I can't tell you what your geckos are by the pics. I'll wait for someone else try to explain this to you, but your research needs to include an understanding in genetics. It's irresponsible to breed like this.
 
Craig, Kristi is right. She's not being harsh, but you admittedly have never bred before, claim you wanted to start somewhere, and she's merely giving you advice.

In terms of IDing these guys, the albino looks like it could be a Bell, but is most likely a Tremper based on their availability in the hobby. It's hard to tell from the photos, for sure. As for the Mack Snow, again, could be - I don't see any real pigmentation, but, again, I've seen plenty of geckos that "look like" Mack snows that prove out not to be.

The baby is a normal, het albino.

Kristi is only pointing out that in breeding leopard geckos, there are certain things in our community that are certainly frowned upon. For example, if the "Mack snow" turned out to be het Tremper, but your albino is a Bell, you've started mixing incompatible albino strains. If you're only breeding them to keep all of the babies yourself, then I suppose it's irrelevant.

But, honestly, you should've tried to identify them PRIOR to breeding them, not after the fact. That being said, the baby looks healthy, and is still beautiful, and I sincerely hope that he/she continues to do well.

Check out Ron Tremper's site leopardgecko.com (he's one of the godfathers of the industry, so to speak) - he gives a good outline of care/breeding. Also, if you're interested in genetics and seeing "what makes what", check out The Reptile Calculator (google it, I can't remember the exact URL)
 
I understand where the both of you are coming from. What I want you to understand is I know what they are and I did before I bred them. It is hard to tell with my mack because I have seen both normals and mack snows that look like her and I know the only way to prove her is by breeding. When I first posted it came off that I had no clue. The intention of the post was more so to double check on others opinions. If I felt it irresponsible I would have never paired the 2 together. When I planned on breeding them I know what I was expecting to get. Jelly I did use that site well before I ever bred the two. Also I would like to say thanks to jelly for the input
 
I'm currently breeding a Blazing blizzard and wild type together so I can have more pets. I too am curious as to the outcome as I don't know if the wild type has any recessive genetics. We shall see what happens.

I believe if you know you have a 100% wild type they should all appear 'normal' but be heterozygous for albino. Bell, rainwater, or tremper? We may never know.
 
My mack was sold to me by a local breeder who is also a co owner of a pet store. I can say she is proven yet because this is her first breeding season and I've only gotten one fertal egg out of her. Everything else she has reabsorbed unfortunately. She is extremely healthy but I guess it is what it is. I've compares her to multiple normals but she doesn't resemble them at all. I actually posted a pic of the baby now on here today. So I guess in due time I will see. If I do prove her I'm going to work on producing super snows in the future.
 
I understand where the both of you are coming from. What I want you to understand is I know what they are and I did before I bred them. It is hard to tell with my mack because I have seen both normals and mack snows that look like her and I know the only way to prove her is by breeding. When I first posted it came off that I had no clue. The intention of the post was more so to double check on others opinions. If I felt it irresponsible I would have never paired the 2 together. When I planned on breeding them I know what I was expecting to get. Jelly I did use that site well before I ever bred the two. Also I would like to say thanks to jelly for the input

Whether it's Mack or not is no big deal. It's a co dom gene so it's either a snow or not. Not knowing what type of an albino is. Your albino could be a tremper and your Mack could be het bell. Different albino strains should never be paired up. That's basically what we've been trying to explain. The gene pool is messed up enough already.
 
Well if its that easy and that's all you wanted to tell me all along you could have said so in the words you just put them in, instead of saying breeding with unknown genetics is unethical. I understand your concern from a breeder point of view and some breeders take generations to breed out an unwanted gene but even we as hobbiests and also the breeders can never be for sure of the gene pool they are coming from. Yes you have the persons word and yes you believe you can always trust someone but in a world were you can actually strip down the DNA to every gecko you breed it is completley impossible. By posting what I did it was in an effort to move away from this and actually thank jelly for the comment. I'm not looking to start this back up because I've done my research and I came to this site in hopes of a actual breeder helping me confirm my thoughts to put my mind at ease. I clearly stated yes I made a mistake and the post made it seem like I never tried but I had months of looking not only by me but my wife as well and a local breeders help.

But I will say thanks once again for responding and making it a little more clear.
 
I have tried to be helpful. You just don't like my answers. ;)

I won't reply again unless you have a specific question for me.
 
I'm no breeder by any means, but I know mixing albino strains is a no no. I would never even entertain the idea as I don't wish to create unhealthy or murky gene pools, but could someone tell me what WOULD or COULD happen if they crossed?
 
a great deal of shunning, no respect whatsoever from the rest of the community, and a world of pain from other gecko breeders ;-)

Physiologically speaking - - and I cannot believe that I'm saying this out loud, it's doubtful that anything will really happen. I won't say that it NEVER could, because from a genomics standpoint, too many homozygous recessives thrown together can definitely cause some kind of issue in many species, but in leopard geckos, that hasn't been seen as of yet.

No serious breeders will ever buy your geckos if you mix them up like that, that's the big thing. If you're only breeding to have pets, do whatever you want - but - I'm going to go out on a limb and say that once you get 12 eggs out of a female and they all hatch and surprise, you have 12 "muddy" geckos. They may turn out to be beautiful, who knows - but you're PROBABLY going to want to sell a few of them. And no reasonable person with any desire to breed is going to buy them, case closed.

Dude (Evan and Craig, both of you) - just...don't do it. Leave it alone. Buy geckos from quality breeders so you know what you're getting (Kristi is one of them, for sure) - and if you want to breed those, make sure what you're breeding doesn't muddy the genetic waters even more on the ONSIDE chance you ever want to sell them again.

Kristi, I like your answers, don't feel bad <3

...this guy sums it up pretty well, by the way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUWJ8tbfWR0

Give it a gander.
 
OK all I want to say to that is go and take a gander at another post I made in the he ko discussions. The baby you see on this post is absolutely beautiful and completely healthy.
 
I never said the baby wasn't healthy, nor pretty - - - I'm just saying nobody (in their right mind with any aspirations toward ethical breeding) is going to buy it because of it's unclear lineage. The baby looks great, I never said it didn't.

I'm with Kristi, I will not respond again unless you ask me a specific question :)

Good luck with the little one.
 
To both Kristi and Jelly. I want to give my apologies for jumping at you when you were trying to help. I understand mixing strain of albinos now is unhealthy by any breeders stand point of view. From what I can tell and know right now is I have bred a mack snow and tremper albino together and their hatchling has produced a normal het tremper. I do realize and know I still have plenty of things to learn and trust me I am researching everyday for a few hours to grasp the general concept of breeding terms and their genetics.

I do not want to receive a bad name on fauna due to one day I do have a real desire to become a breeder and grow in this ever evolving hobby. But my one real question is I was told by the pet store/breeder I bought my snow from that she is indeed a mack snow. Is the only real way of finding that out for sure breeding them until I actually have a proven snow or will that chance be very minimal. Thanks for any help.

Yes I am asking for both of your help lol
 
If she is a Mack, approx half the babies would be Mack. No telling if the Mack is het for anything though.
 
Stephanie, just to clarify... My project animals are from Steve Sykes and other already reputable breeders. I have plenty of room for my pets though which will never be sold. ;)

I know their genetics 100%. No worries.
 
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