HELP SAVE THE WOLVES

[Mister Internet]

HUGE DIFFERENCE than somone setting traps out of season, baiting, and taking way way more than they are allowed to take.
An EPO would more than likely look the other way if an extra deer was taken, or not tagged and they came across the person during the season. probably give out a stiff warning, but not much more unless the person was known for it.
people that are hunting out of season and obviously harvesting more deer than legally fair in that state are very very very different than the normal hunter who happens upon a good sized animal in his path during the season.

Your "hunter" friends have fed you a complete load of bull crap to get you to agree with their twisted rationalizations. It sounds like you may have originally objected to this when you first heard of the practice, but you're "ok with it". The reasons you gave sounds like nothing more that the nonsense a conscious lawbreaker deludes themselves into believing in order to rationalize their behavior. Let me assure you, if an EPO caught you taking an "extra deer", you would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, no ifs, ands, or buts. It is POACHING, and it is taken very, VERY seriously... your "hunter" friends might have fooled themselves into believing that the law doesn't care if they take "the odd extra deer", but please don't let them fool you.

Besides, if an "extra deer" is ok, but "more than legally fair" is a HUGE DIFFERENCE, as you put it... who exactly has the definable moral high ground here? The LAW decides what a "legally fair" number of deer is to harvest, and if you take one more than that, you are just as guilty as those who take 5 extra. You can't be "ok with" a person taking an "extra deer", and then pretend to hold some moral superiority over someone who disregards the law entirely.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

im not saying that people should do it and that that sort of poaching is OK, dang, cool it really? I see its fun to rip apart posts, or try to twist meanings around without actually ASKING what is meant, but thats not what im even getting at and i would certainly expect more of you to at least try to see my reasoning in my posts. or ask me to explain myself better. Lets not ASSume here eh?

People can be out hunting for a buck, only because they have already tagged the full amount of does that they got for that year. ( Usually here, its two does, one buck, i belive) and when they see an animal, you GET excited, your eyes can play tricks on you. NO HUNTER is immune to it, regardless of what you might think or say. if anyone dosnt know, its called buck fever, and it happens to everyone at one point or another. its a regular part of hunting and anyone who hunts understands and KNOWS it. so... that person out hunting goes and they take the shot, only to find out. its a doe. oops. crap happens. You can be an honest guy and bring it to the weigh station, and explain the situation, and more than likely they will LET you off.
people dont get in trouble for stuff like that, unless they are KNOWN for doing it or their allotted animals are already full. or they were KNOWN to have been poaching. an accidental extra animal, is not poaching, and if you dont bring it to the weigh station, i still dont consider it poaching. not if that was NOT your intent in the first place.

If you went out, and had ALL of your allotted amount of deer, then YES i would consider that poaching, and that was NEVER what i was talking about. ( meaning for this case, since im in MA, 2 does and 1 buck)

Im saying, not everyone tags the deer they take, and brings them to a weigh station. either. Thats just a fact. not every one does it, so any numbers you see are just the ones that were tagged and brought to weigh stations, and i KNOW this because i personally know an EPO officer who knows the people around here that hunt. I dont consider that wrong, maybe they just wanted to get the animal home to finish cleaning it, or the weigh station was closed, or far away.

people do it, fact. Does that make them horrible evil poachers that go out of their way to harvest WAY more than the alloted amount of deer? No. i dont think so. and that will always be my stance regardless.

But i do think they SHOULD go to the weigh stations when they get an animal if something were to happen by accident. its just the right way to do things.

These people are NOT setting traps, and are not PURPOSELY going out to take more deer every year, and actually almost all of them get maybe 1-2 deer, and another 5 on average. so, say what you like, but the way youre twisting my words to sound, or rather, how you are Taking them to sound, is NOT how they are meant to be taken.

nice try, but im not some horrible person with low morals, who associates with those
who have low morals. sorry, i cut that crap out of my life when i was in highschool. But i DO associate myself with those who are understanding, and know that crap happens and somtimes thats just how it is. Dont EVER try to make it sound any differently. EVER.

I KNOW Epo officers, and i KNOW Police and if it just happened to be an accident like i talked above, they more than likely would look the other way.

 

[Seamus Haley]

People can be out hunting for a buck, only because they have already tagged the full amount of does that they got for that year. ( Usually here, its two does, one buck, i belive) and when they see an animal, you GET excited, your eyes can play tricks on you.

You have the tag issue slightly... wrong... for Taxachussetts. They don't exactly seperate animals into bucks and does, they seperate them into antlered and non-antlered animals. Pretty much the same thing since the species is sexually dimorphic when it comes to the rack, but bucks without one or some screwball doe *with* one, would be considered based on the antlers, not their actual reproductive parts.

Your hunting permit gives you the ability to hunt two antlered deer.

Hunters with a valid deer permit are entered into a drawing for antlerless tags. These are specific to the county or Mass Wildlife determined zone and are limited in number by area. They allow one antlerless deer (everyone just calls them doe tags) each.

The state will sell excess antlerless permits, if there are any left over after the drawing- not something that common, but it is possible for a person to have the legal ability to take extra does. Or no does, if they fail to win an alterless tag and there are no extras avaliable in any zones for the year.

So the legal bag per hunter is two bucks. Unless they manage to get an antlerless permit, either through the drawing or by purchasing them, which allow one doe or antlerless buck each.

Now the part I am uncertain about... and would suggest anyone hunting here verify before taking at face value... I *believe* the antlerless tags can also be used for antlered deer. You can't use an antlered tag on anything without a rack but I think the antlerless tags allow a hunter to take either.

Bucks aren't the ones the state gets all uppity about regulating though, it's the doe population which is more ridgidly protected, since a single buck will happily assist along a fairly large population of does in the reproductive process if he's able.

 

[Seamus Haley]

Ohyeah... and the Fish and Game wildlife officers are like any other law enforcement group in any other area. Some individual officers might be forgiving of a mistake, like taking a non-antlered deer with out a non-antlered tag, if they think it was an honest misidentification (the chances of you keeping the deer are slim to "HaHaha, what are you, an idiot?!" though). I do not know a single one that would be tolerant of anyone killing an animal without a hunting liscence or one in excess of the number of tags they have.

"I thought it was antlered, it was walking towards me through some cover and I made a mistake. Sorry officer, here's the deer." isn't the same as "Well, I had used my avaliable tags and shot two this year, but I saw this one and killed it anyway. Huhuhuhoops"

If your friends are taking deer in excess of the number of tags they have, they are flat out filthy poachers. If they are deliberately taking non-antlered deer without the proper tag and hoping to explain it away as a mistake, they are filthy poachers.

If you have just tried and failed to explain that game wardens and fish and wildlife officers will let honest, legitimate mistakes slide when it comes to the gender of the animal bagged, then you may want to try again. 'cause it sure sounded like you said your buddies went crazy with excitement and shot more animals than they had tags for.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Ohyeah... and the Fish and Game wildlife officers are like any other law enforcement group in any other area. Some individual officers might be forgiving of a mistake, like taking a non-antlered deer with out a non-antlered tag, if they think it was an honest misidentification (the chances of you keeping the deer are slim to "HaHaha, what are you, an idiot?!" though). I do not know a single one that would be tolerant of anyone killing an animal without a hunting liscence or one in excess of the number of tags they have.

"I thought it was antlered, it was walking towards me through some cover and I made a mistake. Sorry officer, here's the deer." isn't the same as "Well, I had used my avaliable tags and shot two this year, but I saw this one and killed it anyway. Huhuhuhoops"

If your friends are taking deer in excess of the number of tags they have, they are flat out filthy poachers. If they are deliberately taking non-antlered deer without the proper tag and hoping to explain it away as a mistake, they are filthy poachers.

If you have just tried and failed to explain that game wardens and fish and wildlife officers will let honest, legitimate mistakes slide when it comes to the gender of the animal bagged, then you may want to try again. 'cause it sure sounded like you said your buddies went crazy with excitement and shot more animals than they had tags for.

Nope, none of them would ever, in their lives take more than they were allotted in any one particular state, and only if a misidentification happened would they shoot the wrong deer.

Like i said in my previous post, if somone had all of their tags used up, then thats wrong if they are still going out hunting in that particular state ( since you can go to states to get more tags, for out of state hunting). and i would 100% wholeheartedly agree that is poaching. Though, im not so sure if they keep the deer you take by accident. Im sure they do, but maybe not all. But i suppose with that, its all who you know and who likes who in your area.

 

[Griz]

No not always, There are many hunters that i know, that if they had seen a doe, or a buck, and had actually been hunting for one other other, because the other quota was already filled, they still take the does in ( or buck) if it was a good sized animal.

Alicia, c'mon now your last post is in complete contradiction to the one above. You clearly state that if a hunter was suppose to be hunting for a buck because his doe tags were filled, that it was ok to shoot another doe. If you did not mean that then you need to proof read first as what you stated and potentially what you meant were two different things.

they are not poachers going to different states to legally get permits for that state to harvest a deer or whatever the out of state limit is. BUT they are also no poachers by taking an extra doe or buck than they were technically allowed for the season. Not everyone goes to the weigh station after every kill either, so whos to prove that others do, or dont do it. If its just a chance thing, i see nothing wrong with it.

To further expound on this post, you state that they are not poachers when they took an extra doe or buck then they were technically allowed.

Also, if you don't check your animal in then yes, you are a poacher. In Illinois, you are required to check your animal in. Period. No, it's too late (you go the next morning) or I'm too tired (suck it up Nancy).

An EPO would more than likely look the other way if an extra deer was taken, or not tagged and they came across the person during the season. probably give out a stiff warning, but not much more unless the person was known for it.

If they did what you described above then no, an EPO office would nail their rear and rightfully so. If someone mistook a buck for a doe (very hard to do) then yes, they might be lenient. In Illinois we have a 3 inch antlered rule. If you can't tell that the animal has a full 3 inches of antlers on it then you need to go back to your hunter safety course. The excuse of the animal being in brush is bunk as we all know you don't shoot at an animal in the bush. You wait until you know what your target is, period. No if's, and's or buts.

Alicia, we can only go off of what you write and what you wrote is far different then the tune your stating now. Proof read Alicia.

Griz