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[scalesnstuff]

Alright here is the deal. I shipped a blue tongue skink to a person in New York. She is claiming the animal is missing a toe, has puss coming out of the mouth, has mouth rot etc. I have looked over every picture we have of the skink and it has the toe. Now I am getting slammed by this person because of it. I offered her a refund right off the bat since she stated that she was not satisfied, we also decided against shipping it back because of all the problems that she was stating I figured that it would be more o a risk to ship again. I have apologize more than enough.
I was going to send her a care package as well to help with the little guy, but after getting slammed why would I refund $108.00 and send 30 bucs of stuff as well.

I am a little ticked about this because I can't prove anything, the thing is she is stating only what she wants. She says that she could not get a hold of me (personal reasons, I spent most of Monday and Tuesday at the court house for something entirely unrelated to my business and personal) I gave her my cell number and explained that there was some serious issues going on and that I would be spending alot of time away from the contact number that she origianally had. She also stated that we told her that we were going to ship it through Fed Ex. We have never shipped an lizard through Fed Ex, they all ship through Express Mail via USPS. I gave her the tracking number, website address to check it and the 1-800 number as well.


We spend a lot of time with our animals, my mother is a rehabber in GA and looks over all my animals plus a person that breeds spiders and some one that I know that has done exaustive research on many specific species. We also hold them back for a month to watch and treat them for parasites. When we talked Tuesday I explained to her I was still prepping the animal and told her that I had a concern with a red mark near the mouth area. I told her that I wanted to have it checked for mites. While I was talking to her I discovered that it was not mites but red dust from the bark that we had it in. While giving the animal a bath a couple of hours from shipping it was very alert and quite mad that I was cleaning it. The last thing that it did was bite me on my finger before it left.

The animals were set up exactly like the care sheet said. 85 degress, some humidity, on red bark, was given a diet of vegetables, some fruit, crickets and an occassional pinkie mouse. We check our temperatures with a temgun from pro exotics. Out of the two baby ones this one somehow is having a million and one problems when it arrived to her house.

We started this because of a local pet store. I have spent countless hours "fixing" reptiles that are in bad health that were sold by this store. Dehydrated geckos, ball pythons with belly rot, wild caught ball pythons that would not eat, argntine tegus that would not eat, etc. Now I am getting slammed here. We do purchase animals from a dealer and we also purchase from assorted breeders.

I don't know what else to do. I have sold about 50 animals through this site alone and this is a first. Unlike the other person I am not going to state half facts but the truth. However proving the truth is quite difficult when the animal and person is thousands of miles away.

My goal when i started this was to be a good supplier of animals not one that sells crap. I mean seriously, there probably isn't another person out there that guarantees animals like we do but we are getting slammed. (because of possible scams I will not discuss all of our policies unless the person is a representative of a legit company and it will be done by phone only). We also do alot of shows in our community, about half of the animals that we have were picked, the rest are animals that we decided were not animals that should be sold. (ie baby ball python that bites for no reason, a skeleton tarantula that is missing a leg, a hybrid milk of some sort that cannot be indentified, a rose hair that will fang you with out thinking twice, an usumbara that is so aggressive that you cannot open the cage with out it going crazt etc.)

I don't know what else to do, if any one has any advise it will be greatly welcomed.
Bert Cash
Scales n Stuff
H 912-265-3879
W 912-265-3612
C 912-996-3941
[email protected]

 

[scalesnstuff]

Oh another thing, if I was going to intentionally sell her a sick Blue Tongue, why not just get a new one and send it to her. They are readily available and we have shipments coming in every week. Why would I sell sick snakes to begin with, i am going to have to give back the money. That would be fiscally devistating to run a shop like that.

 

[Xelda]

Has she been able to substantiate her claims with pictures? If you were to do a comparison of those pictures and your pictures, could you determine that the animal was indeed the one that you sent her?

 

[Cat_72]

How about some kind of vet report as well as pictures? If he's supposedly that bad off, I would certainly think a vet visit would be in order.

 

[Cat_72]

Uh, I just realized that there is already a thread on this topic, posted by the buyer on the BOI (where it belongs). I just scan the "new posts", I didn't realize immediately this wasn't on the BOI....starting a second thread about an already existing topic and posting BOI material in other forums are both no-nos.

Bert, you need to post your replies on THAT thread....if you email Webslave and request a "free pass" to defend yourself on the BOI since you are not a paid member, you can do so.

 

[ZenReptiles]

In my defense, this is the animal I received...

Yes, the pictures you sent me DID indeed have a toe. It did NOT have a toe when it arrived at my house on Wednesday. Are you suggesting I cut his toe off when it arrived? It has a vet visit tomorrow evening. I do not want the refund.

 

[ZenReptiles]

Had I known this animal was in the condition I had received it in, I would not have purchased it from you. An animal does not get in the condition overnight. The only reason I bought from you is because you seemed very knowledgable and professional. It wasn't until I was on the phone with you on the Tuesday before, I started to worry. You mentioned you were worried about the animal having mites and that's why you didn't ship it out that Monday. (Turned out to be an aspen issue?) I was on speakerphone with you in my office with my daughter's godmother and my fiance present. And you did say FEDEX. I wrote it on a post-it and stuck it on the wall of my office. Although I noticed on your website you state that you ship USPS.

It's ok though. After this animal puts on some weight and gets the jaw and shedding problem cleared up he should be ok. It's sad that he's missing a toe, but he'll survive ok without.

 

[ZenReptiles]

This was the last email I received from him on Thursday, February 16, 2006 2:36 AM:

The money is part is not an issue, whatever you feel is fair. I just want to make sure that you are satisfied in the end. The only one I have to compare it to is a full grown wild caught and that blue one. We keep stuff for a month to watch it that is why I was so surprised when I saw the red around the mouth plus they are treated for parasites (we were using Nature Zone stuff but I discovered ParaZap) we learned from Rich's Bearded Dragons that just because it its CB does not mean it does not have issues. It took most of 2004 to get rid of them so I can understand your concern. I once again apologize for the inconvenience. We are looking at breeding them too, that is why I am getting the adults in. I know now to look at the feet on all lizards. I have only seen missing parts on the more aggressive animals (ie leopard geckos, fat tails, bearded dragons, crested geckos.). Let me know if there is anything that I can do.
Bert Cash
Scales n Stuff
On Feb 15, 2006, at 11:08 PM, Kate, Zen Reptiles wrote:


The toe looks like from a bad shed and it does not look recent. I have seen this occur in other animals due to bad shedding. I spent nearly a 1/2 hour getting old shed off and it will not come off his back toes, so I fear he will lose those as well.. He is still very sluggish. It takes him a very long time to open his one eye, even after I removed dead skin. He is eating and drinking, so the weight issue can be easily fixed. I was told his tail should be much fatter. You don't need to give me a full refund, just maybe 50% off the cost. I was looking to get an animal in top condition to breed it in the future. I'll have to see what the vet says about his toes and eye.

----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Cash
To: Kate, Zen Reptiles
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: Blue Tongue Skink, ad on Fauna

I just got in its about 11:28 PM. I am sorry about the toe, I did not even catch that. I have learned with the more aggressive animals to check that but not with a BTS. Is it fresh or an old wound? As far as size he was one of the bigger and a hearty eater. Let me know about the eye, it might be aspen that I packed him with. I apologize that you are dissapointed. We do not try to mislead people with the animals that we have for sale. To prove this I would like to offer you a refund for the animal. Let me know about his eye and toe and once again I apologize. I will be in out again tomorrow so let me give you my cell phone number. It is 912-996-3941. If I do not hear from you by lunch I will call the number on the paper that we received with the payment.
Bert Cash
Scales n Stuff

On Feb 15, 2006, at 9:46 AM, Kate, Zen Reptiles wrote:


I just got the skink, and for a half hour he didn't open his eyes and was staggering around the cage and breathing really shallow. It was probably the stress from shipping and the fact that he needed to warm up a bit. He's moving around better now, but I'm still a little dissappointed in the animal I had received. He's missing a toe on his left foot which was never mentioned. He's also very thin, a lot thinner than the pictures or other baby skinks I have seen. He's still shedding and I sprayed some shedding aid on him to help with that. One of his eyes is very watery, and I am going to have a vet check him out later this week. I'm going to keep a close eye on him and I will let you know if anything happens.

 

[scalesnstuff]

Last time

I do not have the time to spat with you on a website. Show me once where I have accused you of cutting off a toe or anything. First it was your friend, now it is your daughters godmother and your fiance. Your emails to me never mentioned "ooze" coming out of its mouth. Since I had a concern of a red spot I think I would have caught that. Ok an aspen issue, all pictures show bark, I say that it is from the bark while I am talking to you. I tell you we use bark because it can hold humidity better than aspen. The eye not opening, like I said it could have been from the aspen, or since it is in multiple layers of shed as you claim it was caused by that. Fed Ex, sounds alot like Express Mail. Now you state that I said Fed Ex. My website says USPS, the web address we gave you was www.usps.com and the phone number I gave you was 1-800-222-1811. (any one that wants to call that number it answers USPS) Now lets say for sake of argument I did say Fed Ex. Why would you not ask since we say we ship the lizards through USPS and gave you a bunch of stuff for USPS.

Lets see a watery eye, could be aspen it could have been something else but that was what we packed him in. I did not use the bark because of it being a little moist. I figured if the heat pad failed on the way up to New York then he would not be sitting on very, very cold substrate. Since one of our local pets says the ink in newspaper might be causing skin rashes in animals knocks out that idea. Sand is too fine and would go everywhere when jostled.

Now if something is going on with our animals before shipping and I feel that the animal is sick no one has enough money to make me ship it. Why. Because people that I deal with only know me from the phone or email. That is why it is important to make sure that everything is on the up and up. Doing this on purpose would be idotic. Fauna is one of the more popular sites on the net. Like I said I could have easily replaced that skink if I was going to be shady and this would not have happened. Do I do this for the money? Nope. I could have kept that animal here and written that animal off in a month. Now that taxes are filed my earnings and all that good stuff is on public record with one thing missing. We have never paid ourselves and don't plan to any time soon. I work a full time job, that pays my bills. I am buying a pet store tomorrow and I am trying to get a promotion at work. If I am such a bad and evil person google me. scalesnstuff one word. I have been doing this for 11 months see what you find. I offer a virtual look (for all who do not know what that is, we hook a digital video camera up and you let us know what you want to see, the animal eat, be handled etc.) at the animal, do you know how much that cost to be able to do that. I have nothing to hide.

I try to be understanding with our customers. Let me ask you this. When you said that the animal was missing a toe did I question you. No. We don't do that. Nothing in your email seemed shady. You were dissatisfied. If you are than I am. Bottome line. As far as the money goes, its mailed. If you don't want it that is your choice. As far as the care package goes, not happening. Like Jim Flaherty said there was a better way to handle it. I knew that you were upset, that is why I was doing everything that i could to try and make amends.

You were the topic of discussion here. Some people felt that sending a care package was too much with the refund 108.78 (if I am not mistaken). But it was my choice. All I wanted was to say sorry my mistake.

Remeber me saying that I had a big breeder now. Do you want to know why it is mine. Because when it arrived it had a small scab on its belly. That is enough to make it a non sellable animal.

Things go wrong if it didn't this would be a Utopia. I can't explain the toe, maybe it was from a shed. But if I missed all these things why would I be in buisiness. We purchased over 7000 dollars of animals last year. I would be out some serious money if I operated like this.

This was a hobby, I learned alot from my mom and other people and felt like I could make a difference. I am sorry this was not the case to you. I am doing everything I can to make it right. I would not have given you my cell number if I was trying to dodge you. Yes I was hard to get ahold of, I admitted that. What was going on is not for the public (and before you accuse me of something else or twist my words, it was not for anything related to the buisiness, nothing about violence, traffic tickets, lawsuit, a subpoena, trial jury, lawsuit----I think that covers everything).

One more thing, vet visit. Everything is good, no mites, mouth rot and whatever you said was wrong. Just asking because your previous post state that it needs a little weight and is still missing a toe. If that is the case then although it sucks it was not in perfect health, I am glad that it is not covered in diseases as you have so willingly posted. Because if that is so then that is a relief.

Some of the things that you are stating is a he said she said thing. I had 3 people hear that never heard me say Fed Ex but alas I cannot prove it. Yes the pics make him look bad, if he looked like that when I sent him out then I messed up and messed up bad and I apologize. I wish things had of gone different but it didn't. I am sorry, I am sorry, I am sorry.

I cannot turn back time all I can do at this point is apologize.

Bert Cash

 

[ZenReptiles]

Even I didn't think it was Fedex, than why would I send this email to you the night before?

From: "Kate, Zen Reptiles" <[email protected]>
To: "Bert Cash" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Blue Tongue Skink, ad on Fauna
Date: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 4:42 PM

Sorry to bother you again, but I think I may have written down the tracking number wrong. Is it Fedex EQ248978255? I'll email you once he arrives to let you know he got here ok. Thanks!

His watery had nothing to do with the aspen. I removed a couple layers of shed that was stuck on his eyes, that was why he was having trouble opening it. This is not about money, and you never said anything about a care package to me. I wouldn't need it. I have any supplies I need readily at my disposal. If it's a matter of a refund or keeping this animal, I would rather keep him, because I know he'll be better cared for with me.

I never said that he was covered in diseases. I said he was sickly. He still has trouble walking and will collapse to one side if he tries to use all of his legs at one time. His jaw does not have mouth rot, but the scales are really damaged. The corner of his mouth is constantly oozing something, and it's not saliva. I wish my camera took better detail pictures, but it doesn't. I have a Kodak Easy Share CX and it blurs out up close pictures.

Furthermore, I have not twisted your words in any way. I haven't once even said anything nasty about you personally. Why would I have any reason to lie about this? I was told I was getting a healthy animal, and received something else. I'm angry that this animal was in this condition for the animal's sake. I could care less about anything else. The problems I have stated that are wrong with it are very noticeable and it's difficult for me to believe you didn't know.
This is also the first to hear about your court thing. People go to court, it's really none of my business. I don't understand why you keep bringing it up. That's not why you initially told me that you didn't ship him out, you said you thought he had mites but it turned out to be about the aspen.
I feel that the animal was misrepresented and I'm saddened that it was in the condition it was in. I can't stand it when animals are mistreated.