codie
New member
I've been involved with reptiles my entire life (62 yrs). I had an older brother that kept many different kinds of herps, so as a child I assumed it was perfectly normal to have snakes in your bedroom. I have kept many, many different reptiles over the last decades. I make no claims to being an expert in any way, but I do believe my experience gives me the right to speak my mind.
I am a dreaded "lurker". (Until now!) I have been observing the development of the herp culture for a very long time, while trying to remain as neutral as possible to its many issues. But now I'd like to take the opportunity to express myself. And this is where I will probably anger a great many of you, alienate others, and just plain piss off some of you. I do, however, ask you to keep an open mind and try not to judge too harshly before considering the information (and opinions) presented.
First To the venomous community...Let me state that I do understand the attraction. I've given in to the temptation myself. And I do understand the freedom issue that "No one is going to tell me what I can or cannot have in my house". But now let me present you with some facts: 1. Anyone who has ever kept any kind of snakes for any length of time has had escapes from confinement. If you claim you never have had this occur, you either haven't kept snakes long enough, or are lying. With that being said, losing a 2 foot milksnake represents basically a loss only to you. Losing a 4 foot cobra presents an unacceptable risk not just to you, but also perhaps to the 4 year little girl down the street. Her and her family were probably not consulted before the danger was introduced in the neighborhood. What gives anyone the right to impose that level of danger on an unsuspecting society? That's like finding out your neighbor is running a clandestine fireworks factory in his garage! 2. It doesn't appear that anyone is making any attempt to self-regulate venomous snakes. There are far too many snakes that are far too readily available to anyone with enough money. I understand the negative response to any mention of regulation. But if you don't do it voluntarily it will be done for you. (Ask the once once common keepers of Burmese Pythons, Yellow Anacondas, etc) Who would you rather see set the rules-yourselves as educated and experienced practitioners, or a frightened, naive, and uninformed local, state, or federal agency?
Large constrictor enthusiasts....1. I recall seeing, in the peak of their popularity rise, great "deals" on newborn Burmese Pythons w/ 15 gallon tank and lid included. How many of those purchases by naive buyers ended well? How many of them were prepared to deal with a 7-10 foot snake a year later if it survived that long? The snakes suffered, the owners suffered, and the avocation suffered a hit to its integrity. The Florida Burmese Python "crisis"-(overblown in my opinion) This should never have happened. Many different sources have been attributed to to the origin of the breeding stock. But whether you believe it was disguarded pets or hurricanes liberating captives, the fault still lies with US. The supply would never have existed if a demand hadn't been created. The sobering fact of all this is that very few people are capable of dealing with a 15 foot plus snake, and ownership of any snake capable reaching such a length should never have been encouraged. And by way of example for other aspects of the hobby/business, since no self-regulation existed, we are now controlled by laws that have no basis in fact or common sense because they constructed out of fear and ignorance. Many areas outlaw ownership of ANY python, even a 3 foot long spotted python. Some don't allow constricting snakes of any kind. And we can
only hold ourselves responsible for the condition we find ourselves in.
Mutations..... This one, I admit, in a little more subjective. If you've been around long enough, you know what the original attractions for certain animals were. Milksnakes were attractive because of the TRI in tricolor. Now we breed the red or black out of them. There are BLACK Blood pythons(?). Albino everything! Every deviation warrants a new name (and price!) Every deformation or mutant is conserved in the hope that it might be genetic. I am not disparaging all such activity, but it detracts from was the original lure. I've seen two-headed and eyeless turtles bred for sale. As bad as some of the things dog breeders have done, at least I don't believe they would knowingly and intentionally encourage the breeding of two-headed or eyeless dogs. But we do that and worse to the animals we claim to care so much about.
If you are new to this, take your time and don't rush into something you're not prepared for. There is a lot of good information out there. (A positive result of the development of this endeavor!) Find out what it takes to make it rewarding. Learn the limitations and rewards of reptiles. A snake will never love you. I'm sorry, but it won't. It may tolerate you very well. It may even appreciate the warmth you emit when it is in contact with you. It will never come when summoned unless it is properly food conditioned. Learn what requirements are necessary BEFORE you acquire any hero. Learn it's maximum size. Are you prepared to deal with a large adult example of you're choice? Are you prepared to provide the sort and size of food required for the life of the animal?
Finally, keep in mind, or try to remember, why you found yourself drawn to these sorts of creatures. And, with that in mind, have respect for them whether you a first time owner,a veteran hobbyist, or a full time breeder/business. Yes, many snakes can live their entire lives in 2x2 foot rack system container with nothing more than a water bowl and a hide box. But don't we owe them more? Providing some habitat enrichment may not improve your economic bottom line, or may further restrict your further expansion, but those animals did not demand to reside in your space. You made that decision for them. Again, consider your impressions if such care were routine for our other pets. Dogs CAN live and breed in kennels barely big enough to move in. Females CAN be bred to early deaths. They CAN be line bred (father to daughter/ brother to sister/etc) to promote certain traits. But I believe that the vast majority of people would view these actions as deplorable and enethical. But we close a blind eye and continue to these things to the very animals we seek to promote. Don't they deserve better?
Codie
I am a dreaded "lurker". (Until now!) I have been observing the development of the herp culture for a very long time, while trying to remain as neutral as possible to its many issues. But now I'd like to take the opportunity to express myself. And this is where I will probably anger a great many of you, alienate others, and just plain piss off some of you. I do, however, ask you to keep an open mind and try not to judge too harshly before considering the information (and opinions) presented.
First To the venomous community...Let me state that I do understand the attraction. I've given in to the temptation myself. And I do understand the freedom issue that "No one is going to tell me what I can or cannot have in my house". But now let me present you with some facts: 1. Anyone who has ever kept any kind of snakes for any length of time has had escapes from confinement. If you claim you never have had this occur, you either haven't kept snakes long enough, or are lying. With that being said, losing a 2 foot milksnake represents basically a loss only to you. Losing a 4 foot cobra presents an unacceptable risk not just to you, but also perhaps to the 4 year little girl down the street. Her and her family were probably not consulted before the danger was introduced in the neighborhood. What gives anyone the right to impose that level of danger on an unsuspecting society? That's like finding out your neighbor is running a clandestine fireworks factory in his garage! 2. It doesn't appear that anyone is making any attempt to self-regulate venomous snakes. There are far too many snakes that are far too readily available to anyone with enough money. I understand the negative response to any mention of regulation. But if you don't do it voluntarily it will be done for you. (Ask the once once common keepers of Burmese Pythons, Yellow Anacondas, etc) Who would you rather see set the rules-yourselves as educated and experienced practitioners, or a frightened, naive, and uninformed local, state, or federal agency?
Large constrictor enthusiasts....1. I recall seeing, in the peak of their popularity rise, great "deals" on newborn Burmese Pythons w/ 15 gallon tank and lid included. How many of those purchases by naive buyers ended well? How many of them were prepared to deal with a 7-10 foot snake a year later if it survived that long? The snakes suffered, the owners suffered, and the avocation suffered a hit to its integrity. The Florida Burmese Python "crisis"-(overblown in my opinion) This should never have happened. Many different sources have been attributed to to the origin of the breeding stock. But whether you believe it was disguarded pets or hurricanes liberating captives, the fault still lies with US. The supply would never have existed if a demand hadn't been created. The sobering fact of all this is that very few people are capable of dealing with a 15 foot plus snake, and ownership of any snake capable reaching such a length should never have been encouraged. And by way of example for other aspects of the hobby/business, since no self-regulation existed, we are now controlled by laws that have no basis in fact or common sense because they constructed out of fear and ignorance. Many areas outlaw ownership of ANY python, even a 3 foot long spotted python. Some don't allow constricting snakes of any kind. And we can
only hold ourselves responsible for the condition we find ourselves in.
Mutations..... This one, I admit, in a little more subjective. If you've been around long enough, you know what the original attractions for certain animals were. Milksnakes were attractive because of the TRI in tricolor. Now we breed the red or black out of them. There are BLACK Blood pythons(?). Albino everything! Every deviation warrants a new name (and price!) Every deformation or mutant is conserved in the hope that it might be genetic. I am not disparaging all such activity, but it detracts from was the original lure. I've seen two-headed and eyeless turtles bred for sale. As bad as some of the things dog breeders have done, at least I don't believe they would knowingly and intentionally encourage the breeding of two-headed or eyeless dogs. But we do that and worse to the animals we claim to care so much about.
If you are new to this, take your time and don't rush into something you're not prepared for. There is a lot of good information out there. (A positive result of the development of this endeavor!) Find out what it takes to make it rewarding. Learn the limitations and rewards of reptiles. A snake will never love you. I'm sorry, but it won't. It may tolerate you very well. It may even appreciate the warmth you emit when it is in contact with you. It will never come when summoned unless it is properly food conditioned. Learn what requirements are necessary BEFORE you acquire any hero. Learn it's maximum size. Are you prepared to deal with a large adult example of you're choice? Are you prepared to provide the sort and size of food required for the life of the animal?
Finally, keep in mind, or try to remember, why you found yourself drawn to these sorts of creatures. And, with that in mind, have respect for them whether you a first time owner,a veteran hobbyist, or a full time breeder/business. Yes, many snakes can live their entire lives in 2x2 foot rack system container with nothing more than a water bowl and a hide box. But don't we owe them more? Providing some habitat enrichment may not improve your economic bottom line, or may further restrict your further expansion, but those animals did not demand to reside in your space. You made that decision for them. Again, consider your impressions if such care were routine for our other pets. Dogs CAN live and breed in kennels barely big enough to move in. Females CAN be bred to early deaths. They CAN be line bred (father to daughter/ brother to sister/etc) to promote certain traits. But I believe that the vast majority of people would view these actions as deplorable and enethical. But we close a blind eye and continue to these things to the very animals we seek to promote. Don't they deserve better?
Codie
