Herpetological Breeder Research?

[greenfiremajick]

If you want to finally get this transaction wrapped up, why are you asking that the UPS terms of service regarding shipment of animals be violated???? Obviously this demand will cause an additional delay to ending the ongoing ordeal.

Quoted from UPS' website ...

"Prohibited Live Animals

Live Animals that are prohibited from being shipped and are not accepted for transportation include, but are not limited to:

Any poisonous, venomous or threatening animal
Any Threatened or Endangered species
Arachnids (All): Examples: mites, scorpions, spiders, ticks
Birds (All)
Crocodiles (All): Examples: alligators, caimans, gavials
Mammals (All)
Obnoxious Insects: Examples: flies, locusts, mosquitoes, roaches, termites, weevils
Snakes (All): venomous and non-venomous"

Wow, that's interesting....UPS has shipped snakes back and forth to many people in the hobby and I've never seen this rule, when I researched shipping turtles! Hmmmm...

I'm also surprised that you've never seen UPS be used to ship snakes?

Apparently, I need to talk with Ray about this....Thanks for bringing this out in the open, Double- You are so helpful!

"Obviously this demand will cause an additional delay to ending the ongoing ordeal."
In all reality, this post by Double LY will be what delays everything, but that's OK. I've waited since 4/18, I can be a bit more patient!!

 

[Double LY]

She mentioned why she wanted shipping done through UPS in one of her earlier posts. I don't think that she is in a position to demand that someone ship in direct violation of the UPS rules though,but I can see why she would like it done. The other carriers kill animals!

The previous post was with respect to shipment of the originally ordered lizards, which is not a violation of UPS' TOS.

I'm also surprised that you've never seen UPS be used to ship snakes?

I'm aware that there are people in the hobby that will ship snakes via UPS. It still doesn't make it acceptable under their policy.

In all reality, this post by Double LY will be what delays everything, but that's OK. I've waited since 4/18, I can be a bit more patient!!

Yeah, I'm the reason this has been dragging on for over a month

 

[ravensgait]

UPS,, there are a number of companies that ship snakes through UPS under a waiver. Heck some of the big guys have had UPS accounts for years.. Randy

 

[DaveyFig]

Wow, that's interesting....UPS has shipped snakes back and forth to many people in the hobby and I've never seen this rule, when I researched shipping turtles! Hmmmm...

I'm also surprised that you've never seen UPS be used to ship snakes?

Apparently, I need to talk with Ray about this....Thanks for bringing this out in the open, Double- You are so helpful!

"Obviously this demand will cause an additional delay to ending the ongoing ordeal."
In all reality, this post by Double LY will be what delays everything, but that's OK. I've waited since 4/18, I can be a bit more patient!!

UPS has been used to ship a lot of snakes to many people. That doesn't mean that it isn't against their policies. Many people don't care if they break a rule, they just don't want to break the law. If I remember correctly, the Lacey act requires those shipping reptiles to have the common name written in plain view on the outside of the package. By writing "kingsnake" on the package, it would be legal to ship, but would alert UPS to the fact that the contents are against their policies.
Fedex does allow shipment of reptiles after a screening process involving the shipment of an empty package with normal snake shipping stuff enclosed to their testing facilities. After an evaluation, the box is returned, and you may be granted permission to ship snakes. UPS will allow reptiles to be shipped on a case by case basis, and does not knowingly allow shipment of snakes.
I am not surprised that you hadn't seen that rule in all of your research for shipping turtles. After all, they allow shipment of turtles, and you don't seem to be very good about reading rules.

 

[DaveyFig]

UPS,, there are a number of companies that ship snakes through UPS under a waiver. Heck some of the big guys have had UPS accounts for years.. Randy

I am going to guess that Lisa G doesn't have that waiver.

 

[DaveyFig]

The previous post was with respect to shipment of the originally ordered lizards, which is not a violation of UPS' TOS.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say she doesn't want the snakes any more dead than she wanted the lizards. While her initial suggestion to use UPS was within their TOS, the reason she wanted them used is because the other carriers "kill" animals. It doesn't matter that the animals being shipped has change, her concern is the same.
What does matter though is that UPS doesn't knowingly ship snakes, and that is where the issue comes up. She should run from this deal if she doesn't trust a carrier that will ship snakes, rather than demand that UPS be used against their policy.

 

[greenfiremajick]

The previous post was with respect to shipment of the originally ordered lizards, which is not a violation of UPS' TOS.



I'm aware that there are people in the hobby that will ship snakes via UPS. It still doesn't make it acceptable under their policy.



Yeah, I'm the reason this has been dragging on for over a month

Wow, you seem really sarcastic...You have no reason to take this so personally, Double. It's OK, you don't need to be defensive or answer to every single thing I write, unless you really want to! But I thank you for your comments and all your help. Talk to you soon.

 

[greenfiremajick]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say she doesn't want the snakes any more dead than she wanted the lizards. While her initial suggestion to use UPS was within their TOS, the reason she wanted them used is because the other carriers "kill" animals. It doesn't matter that the animals being shipped has change, her concern is the same.
What does matter though is that UPS doesn't knowingly ship snakes, and that is where the issue comes up. She should run from this deal if she doesn't trust a carrier that will ship snakes, rather than demand that UPS be used against their policy.

Honestly, it doesn't matter because I'm going to be screwed and not get what I want, no matter which way any of this happens...I contacted Ray this morning and told him we could go with another carrier that was legal. I am going to end up doing a 100 mile round trip to Show Low, to ensure that the animals get picked up by me instead of getting stuck. If they get stuck in PHX, then there will be a real problem. Ray ensured me before that he would ship overnight! As I've stated before, I was unaware that UPS didn't ship snakes...After I was informed, I took steps to deal w/that...

And as for you statement of "I am not surprised that you hadn't seen that rule in all of your research for shipping turtles. After all, they allow shipment of turtles, and you don't seem to be very good about reading rules...."

Well, you don't know me and I really do not need to waste the time trying to prove my abilities or arguing w/you....I also do not deserve to be the one that's being put under the spotlight, here. A little decency and an ability to be polite goes a long way .....But I've observed you're not very good at that.... (as an example, informing me politely about the UPS rules would have been a decent human thing to do--And since I don't spend any time shipping out snakes, I would not have known...).I'm sure you're perfect in every way, including reading all the rules and stipulations of everything you do, though....

sigh.. Alas, I will never be as perfect as you and you must find every opportunity to announce that in public....Shoot, sometimes I even forget to make phone calls, or --gasp-- sometimes I let my dishes sit in the sink overnight!!!!!

 

[greenfiremajick]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say she doesn't want the snakes any more dead than she wanted the lizards. While her initial suggestion to use UPS was within their TOS, the reason she wanted them used is because the other carriers "kill" animals.
What does matter though is that UPS doesn't knowingly ship snakes, and that is where the issue comes up. She should run from this deal if she doesn't trust a carrier that will ship snakes, rather than demand that UPS be used against their policy.

"It doesn't matter that the animals being shipped has change, her concern is the same. " This is true.

As I've said before, I just want this whole deal over......If I were shipping out reptiles as a business endeavor, I would have known that UPS doesn't carry snakes.....

 

[greenfiremajick]

UPS,, there are a number of companies that ship snakes through UPS under a waiver. Heck some of the big guys have had UPS accounts for years.. Randy

Thanks for that info! I know that Lisa, the one shipping, will be shipping with Ray's account so maybe he has that??

 

[greenfiremajick]

"this has been dragging on for over a month"

Can you believe this has been dragging on for a month?????

 

[greenfiremajick]

I am going to guess that Lisa G doesn't have that waiver.

Yes, but if she's using his account to ship, maybe he does? I know when I mentioned UPS for shipping snakes, he didn't say anything to the contrary...I guess none of it matters, since HOPEFULLY it will all be straightened out by next week...
I sure hope so, because we are moving in a matter of weeks, since my hubby is in law enforcement and received a promotion and i am taking a new position in a new school as their special ed teacher....I wouldn't want all this crap to continue and worry about changing shipping addresses in the middle of all this...

 

[Double LY]

Wow, you seem really sarcastic...You have no reason to take this so personally, Double.

(as an example, informing me politely about the UPS rules would have been a decent human thing to do--And since I don't spend any time shipping out snakes, I would not have known...).

Why would I be taking any of this personally? I agree I may be sarcastic, but you haven't written anything offensive for me to get upset about.

And, actually, my first post was an attempt to point out the UPS rules. I think you may have read some rudeness into it that wasn't there. I know things get misinterpreted with written word, and if you took the "obvious delay" comment as such, I apologize. I was attempting to help avoid another postponement of the delivery (assuming you would receive a response from Ray days from now saying your requested shipping date was missed yet again because of the request for UPS).

 

[greenfiremajick]

Why would I be taking any of this personally? I agree I may be sarcastic, but you haven't written anything offensive for me to get upset about.

And, actually, my first post was an attempt to point out the UPS rules. I think you may have read some rudeness into it that wasn't there. I know things get misinterpreted with written word, and if you took the "obvious delay" comment as such, I apologize. I was attempting to help avoid another postponement of the delivery (assuming you would receive a response from Ray days from now saying your requested shipping date was missed yet again because of the request for UPS).

Thanks for the clarification and I didn't get offended at all. I just can't believe this has been dragging on for SO LONG!!!

 

[herpetological]

Regards to this order

First I was un aware of any thread on me until a few minutes ago.I have not read every word on this thread so If I miss something please point it out. I will address the issues at hand. First of all Tracey has every right to be upset. Her order did not go through as planned. I told her to begin with that the legless were not in stock but, I expected them within the week. The dealer took the money and ran so to speak. I was told every few days they were shipping. On top of this a pet store chain in Ga. gave me 3 worthless checks for a very sizeable amount. I was told to be in court to assist the attorney's office in the charges and recovery of the funds. I had no choice. I did send e-mails to any customers with pending orders that i was going to be delayed. I did loose touch for a few days at a time as well due to computer/virus problems. Unfortunately everything came down at once. I myself would have been appaled at the lack of communication irregardless of the situation. Fortunately I will be able to recover and at my own expense will refund or fill any orders affected by this. To top things off I was in a rush and wrote the wrong address and customer on her box. It went to another customer. I have been in contact with them fowarded this information to her and she will ship to Tracey the kingsnakes. In regards to any past shipping problems most have been due to employees that were slack in their attention. Some we legitimate mistakes. It doesen't seem to matter that I have shipped and sold thousands of animals over the 30 years I have been in business with very few mistakes or problems. I didn't get in this business yesterday. I know my reputation is not sterling but, it is better than 90% of the people out there. I will not let anyone loose in the long run irregardless of my personal and financial postion. It's interesting that people are always willing to believe the worst about people. Guess it's human nature. I did get myself into a jam I did make mistakes and any customer that is owed an animal or refund WILL get it. I think you will find much more good on me than the few things that could be considered bad. There is no one in this business that has been in it as long or has sold as many herps worldwide that can say mistakes do not happen or that they may have dropped the ball a few times. If I'm wrong or make a mistake I will owe up to it. I'm not perfect but, I will make every effort to ensure that every customer is happy with their order or refund. I've had suppliers and customers put me into a bind on animals and finances before and pulled it out. I will do so again. In regards to the statements about my reputation as a dealer here in Florida or elsewhere......Well no one that I am personally aware of has a problem with that. Have there been a few problems in my history, where there problems on orders? Of course. There have also been thousands of satisfied customers as well. If there are any complaints in regards to any previous orders that might have been lost in the years I will even make good on any that feel they were missed. Simply contact me. I'm not hiding.........E-mail- [email protected] Phone 772-519-1376 Fax: 772-882-9677 Guess i'm not the piece of %^&** that a few people think I am. Been in this business for years and will continue to be. I'm just a man like anyone else. Struggling to feed my family, make a living and do the right thing in all matters. Things are tight for all of us right now with the economy. This hit from finances, suppliers and personal matters was not forseeable. However, I will exhaust all efforts to make sure all parties are happy and satisfied with the outcome. In regards to the few name callers and accusers.....It's not worth my time. In regards to Tracey she will get her snakes, a refund on any balance and I will pay the shipping. In regards to any oversight on order please contact me. Last but, not least, yes I did drop the ball on communication and yes I did make a mistake sticking my neck out on customers who DID NOT pay. My mistakes I will accept the blame and learn from it. Raymond A. Goushaw HBR

 

[greenfiremajick]

First I was un aware of any thread on me until a few minutes ago.I have not read every word on this thread so If I miss something please point it out. I will address the issues at hand. First of all Tracey has every right to be upset. Her order did not go through as planned. I told her to begin with that the legless were not in stock but, I expected them within the week. The dealer took the money and ran so to speak. I was told every few days they were shipping. On top of this a pet store chain in Ga. gave me 3 worthless checks for a very sizeable amount. I was told to be in court to assist the attorney's office in the charges and recovery of the funds. I had no choice. I did send e-mails to any customers with pending orders that i was going to be delayed. I did loose touch for a few days at a time as well due to computer/virus problems. Unfortunately everything came down at once. I myself would have been appaled at the lack of communication irregardless of the situation. Fortunately I will be able to recover and at my own expense will refund or fill any orders affected by this. To top things off I was in a rush and wrote the wrong address and customer on her box. It went to another customer. I have been in contact with them fowarded this information to her and she will ship to Tracey the kingsnakes. In regards to any past shipping problems most have been due to employees that were slack in their attention. Some we legitimate mistakes. It doesen't seem to matter that I have shipped and sold thousands of animals over the 30 years I have been in business with very few mistakes or problems. I didn't get in this business yesterday. I know my reputation is not sterling but, it is better than 90% of the people out there. I will not let anyone loose in the long run irregardless of my personal and financial postion. It's interesting that people are always willing to believe the worst about people. Guess it's human nature. I did get myself into a jam I did make mistakes and any customer that is owed an animal or refund WILL get it. I think you will find much more good on me than the few things that could be considered bad. There is no one in this business that has been in it as long or has sold as many herps worldwide that can say mistakes do not happen or that they may have dropped the ball a few times. If I'm wrong or make a mistake I will owe up to it. I'm not perfect but, I will make every effort to ensure that every customer is happy with their order or refund. I've had suppliers and customers put me into a bind on animals and finances before and pulled it out. I will do so again. In regards to the statements about my reputation as a dealer here in Florida or elsewhere......Well no one that I am personally aware of has a problem with that. Have there been a few problems in my history, where there problems on orders? Of course. There have also been thousands of satisfied customers as well. If there are any complaints in regards to any previous orders that might have been lost in the years I will even make good on any that feel they were missed. Simply contact me. I'm not hiding.........E-mail- [email protected] Phone 772-519-1376 Fax: 772-882-9677 Guess i'm not the piece of %^&** that a few people think I am. Been in this business for years and will continue to be. I'm just a man like anyone else. Struggling to feed my family, make a living and do the right thing in all matters. Things are tight for all of us right now with the economy. This hit from finances, suppliers and personal matters was not forseeable. However, I will exhaust all efforts to make sure all parties are happy and satisfied with the outcome. In regards to the few name callers and accusers.....It's not worth my time. In regards to Tracey she will get her snakes, a refund on any balance and I will pay the shipping. In regards to any oversight on order please contact me. Last but, not least, yes I did drop the ball on communication and yes I did make a mistake sticking my neck out on customers who DID NOT pay. My mistakes I will accept the blame and learn from it. Raymond A. Goushaw HBR

Ray, I sent you the URL/link for the BOI a couple of weeks ago, on May 16. Please see below:

from Traci Borgmeyer <[email protected]>
to "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
date Fri, May 16, 2008 at 3:07 PM
subject the link
mailed-by gmail.com

hide details May 16


Reply

you really are some piece of work, huh?? At this point, I view you as a thief....

Here's the link for the BOI at Fauna...Not that that will matter to you, but anyway--I'm giving you the chance to make this right and save what little reputation you have...

I want my money.

Thanks,

Traci


http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=596510&posted=1#post596510

Yes, your communication did indeed suck. I have also made sure to come back here and keep the readers aware of what you were, and were not, doing. It seems as if there are quite a few people that have said they had the same experience with you, as I did...Though I appreciate you making sure to get me the animals that were promised, they were supposedly available a long time ago. In all reality and honesty, I would prefer a refund, as opposed to the animals.... Also, you have yet to answer my 2 emails asking if you are willing to guarantee the animals that Lisa G ships and you did not tell me which day you're shipping. I really need to know this, so they don't end up sitting somewhere in the heat and getting dehydrated and dying.

For Fauna readers, Ray did tell me he's certified to ship UPS, though he was not clear in regards to whether or not he's cert'd to ship snakes via UPS. Ray, if you are cert'd to ship snakes via UPS, please ensure to use UPS. Fauna readers--I will let you know what happens next week.....Dammit-that last sentence reminds me of a juicy gossip talk show...

 

[greenfiremajick]

Ray, I sent you the URL/link for the BOI a couple of weeks ago, on May 16. Please see below:

from Traci Borgmeyer <[email protected]>
to "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
date Fri, May 16, 2008 at 3:07 PM
subject the link
mailed-by gmail.com

hide details May 16


Reply

you really are some piece of work, huh?? At this point, I view you as a thief....

Here's the link for the BOI at Fauna...Not that that will matter to you, but anyway--I'm giving you the chance to make this right and save what little reputation you have...

I want my money.

Thanks,

Traci


http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/for...ed=1#post596510

for some reason, the link I sent to Ray won't highlight, so it doesn't look as if it was a part of the email! This was sent to Ray in 2 emails...

Yes, your communication did indeed suck. I have also made sure to come back here and keep the readers aware of what you were, and were not, doing. It seems as if there are quite a few people that have said they had the same experience with you, as I did...Though I appreciate you making sure to get me the animals that were promised, they were supposedly available a long time ago. In all reality and honesty, I would prefer a refund, as opposed to the animals.... Also, you have yet to answer my 2 emails asking if you are willing to guarantee the animals that Lisa G ships and you did not tell me which day you're shipping. I really need to know this, so they don't end up sitting somewhere in the heat and getting dehydrated and dying.

For Fauna readers, Ray did tell me he's certified to ship UPS, though he was not clear in regards to whether or not he's cert'd to ship snakes via UPS. Ray, if you are cert'd to ship snakes via UPS, please ensure to use UPS. Fauna readers--I will let you know what happens next week.....Dammit-that last sentence reminds me of a juicy gossip talk show...

 

[critical bill]

For Ray's part it sounds like a bunch of BS excuses and hard luck stories.

 

[greenfiremajick]

For Ray's part it sounds like a bunch of BS excuses and hard luck stories.

I agree, but I was giving him the chance...I sent him my address before the weekend..No reply whatsoever..Sent him an email yesterday, asking if the animals were going to be shipped...no reply...sent another email today...no reply, as of yet....He never responded in regards to whether or not he was still guaranteeing the animals, either.......
I am just plain disgusted by all this...Will let y'all know what happens!

 

[DaveyFig]

Last but, not least, yes I did drop the ball on communication and yes I did make a mistake sticking my neck out on customers who DID NOT pay. My mistakes I will accept the blame and learn from it. Raymond A. Goushaw HBR

I guess he hasn't learned yet.

Guess i'm not the piece of %^&** that a few people think I am.

That remains to be seen.Saying it doesn't make it so.