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High End Herps (Inquiry)

Kelly, I have a question. Do you think how someone acts when ask questions in relation to how they do business would reflect on this? Should it? You bet ya, IMO.

If they are found to be less than fourthright, as well a deceptive in the so call business. Why should it not reflect on the GGC in relation to how they do business?

If they conduct themselves in a manner that shows them to be honest, then if they choose not to this should reflect as well. JMHO

As I stated before, the way you choose to see the GGC differs how from the trader rating already in place? It is not the same, the GGC is based on opinion of members here. It is not only feedback from buyers, but opinions of what light people see your business in. Why is that not fair? IMO, the days of running a muck in our hobby should be regulated by such tools.
 
Dude...

Ritchie Luna said:
well I have not lied to you.

Therefore I would like to say.
I own Ralph davis Reptiles
I own VPI
I own Bob Clark and Mike.
I also own boaphile
They are just running my business for me.

If you belive that, please send me $1000.95 and your entire collection.
I too promise to keep them forever...

I will take them in and put them as part of my "closed" collection. together with all the trade ins I have receive and everything I import.

just being sarcastic to prove a point
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Ritchie, If you want to call me a fool or stupid or too trusting, nieve, go ahead and say it. I take people for their word unless I have reason to believe otherwise. Dave has given me no reason to believe otherwise and there is nothing but good comments about HEH. To be perfectly honest I dont care if the guy was an axe murderer, as long as he keeps his word to me and takes care of my animals I am satisfied. So far he has done that, so I have no complaints. I don't know why you feel you must try to insult me, but hey no sweat off my back. I am who I am and I am happy with who I have become. I really thought you might have some legitimate quarrel with this Damon guy, but now that you have insulted me for no reason I question your integrity, as I have done you no wrong. Take care, Dan M.
 
KelliH said:
Kevin, I agree with you and Jim that votes should be based on the way a person conducts business
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The manner in which a person conducts his business is not based solely upon sales. It's how the customer or potential customer is treated. It's their ability to answer questions posed of them etc etc.

As Rich clearly stated, the certificate is an honor bestowed upon the individual that shows potential buyers that this person is endorsed by the users of this site and that they are in good standing within this community. It is NOT based solely upon sales otherwise having both a trader rating and good certificate would be redundant. Afterall, it's not the little guy that is concerned with what the trader rate states.

You have said yourself that you would not do business with this entity. Why is that? If you won't do business with them then it certainly stands to reason that they are not in good standing with you, correct? That you have doubts. So why not protect the innocent before protecting HEH?

If this case against HEH was a mere hunch then I would not have voted. However, when the number of coincidences soon outnumber your clientele, you have to start wondering. I, as a participant in this community, do not endorse HEH, they do NOT fall within acceptable parameters of good standing, for me to simply sit idly by and not respond.

Maybe the certificate means more to me then most as I refuse to allow it to be bestowed upon an entity when that entity has a lot of explaining to do. The certificate is something you earn not something you deserve. Yup, maybe it does mean more to me.......

Griz
 
Kelly, I have a question. Do you think how someone acts when ask questions in relation to how they do business would reflect on this? Should it? You bet ya, IMO.
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I really don't think how someone acts when encountered with a question in relation to their business is relevant, unless they are proven to be lying.

If they are found to be less than fourthright, as well a deceptive in the so call business. Why should it not reflect on the GGC in relation to how they do business?
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No, I agree with you 100% about that. If their business practices are proven to be deceptive then it should be relected on their GGC.

As I stated before, the way you choose to see the GGC differs how from the trader rating already in place? It is not the same, the GGC is based on opinion of members here. It is not only feedback from buyers, but opinions of what light people see your business in. Why is that not fair? IMO, the days of running a muck in our hobby should be regulated by such tools.
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I guess I see the GGC as more important (for lack of a better word) than the trader ratings, thus I feel that votes should be based on one's own business transactions with the business or individual, and not personal feelings. I think that some of the problems with the certificates are when people vote YES on them when they have never done business with the person, but just think they are cool. Bill Leverton and TSE come to mind off the top of my head as those that had lots of positives but ended up being exposed for the scumbags that they are.

I think we just have a different way of looking at the GGC's. It is a rather slippery slope and as I said before, no system like this is perfect.
 
If you won't do business with them then it certainly stands to reason that they are not in good standing with you, correct?
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No, it just means I don't feel a good vibe coming from them. I haven't from the first time I noticed their postings in the ksnake forums.
 
I have one answer to the whole GGC system.

Do good business, be honest and you will not draw a bad vote. It is not that hard, it is called doing the right thing.

Does TSE (Chris Johnson), or Bill Leverton deserve the votes they got? You bet, 110%. Or wait, I guess I need to be scammed before I can see they are bad, I think not. :NoNo:

IMO, do they need to have a GGC banner? Not even close.
 
KelliH said:
No, it just means I don't feel a good vibe coming from them. I haven't from the first time I noticed their postings in the ksnake forums.
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And I, as a potential buyer, would like the benefit of your opinion and what better way of voicing said opinion then on the poll?

Kelli, the simple fact that you, someone to whom I have a great deal of respect for, won't deal with them is incredibly important for me to know. The GGC is a great way of voicing that opinion and letting potential buyers know what your gut instinct is.

I understand that it, just like the karma system etc, can be abused and that's a shame. However, my gut instincts are rarely wrong and so long as I have the option of removing my vote when the time is right, then I believe you (Fauna community) have an obligation to cast your vote.

Griz
 
Ggc..

I agree with all angles of this argument, but Griz is right you can retract your vote, so if you feel one way or another then vote, and change it if your opinion should change. I gave him a good guy vote because he helped me out and treated me fairly before during and after my transaction with him, and no one would think negatively of me for putting that vote in given the situation, but should he for some reason screw me over, which I truly doubt, my opinion would indeed change. Trader rating is for sales transactions, and the GGC is just that to show who you feel is good and who you feel is bad. Dan M.
 
Does TSE (Chris Johnson), or Bill Leverton deserve the votes they got? You bet, 110%. Or wait, I guess I need to be scammed before I can see they are bad, I think not.
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Yes, of course they deserve the negative votes they got. They were proven to be liars and scammers. The problem was that many of the positive votes they had before their "outing" were given by "friends" of theirs and not all by people that they had really had good business transactions with, therefore it made them look as if they had a ton of happy customers.

Do good business, be honest and you will not draw a bad vote. It is not that hard, it is called doing the right thing.
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I disagree and I think you know why, but let's not go there again. :)

I understand that it, just like the karma system etc, can be abused and that's a shame. However, my gut instincts are rarely wrong and so long as I have the option of removing my vote when the time is right, then I believe you (Fauna community) have an obligation to cast your vote.
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You make a good point about having the option to change your vote. I can kinda see both sides now. I'll have to do some more thinking about this. Thanks for the post Griz, it was helpful.
 
I can see people voting a negative GGC on HEH, based on interactions here, in other forums, etc. I am not inclined to do it, but I would note that there is a huge distinction between voting against someone to receive the certification, or abstaining from voting, vs. giving them the medallion to use in all their marketing. A negative vote here isn't much different from a negative post in a thread ...... folks have to come here to find it. On the flipside, Kelli and I are in lockstep about the criteria to give someone a positive vote, so as to extend an award that is supposed to certify integrity. Even bad guys make good deals on occasion, and based on that one good transaction (and often no transaction), folks are ready to hand out integrity certifications? All just IMO.

Richie and others. No doubt that Damon earned his grief. Outside of some thought processes that I could not agree with (such as the "2007 Announcement", which I think is in the "Sound Off" forum), I haven't seen any indication that HEH, reincarnated Damon or not, has not taken care of their customers, or is threatening people as Damon was known for. Not going to debate whether that matters or not, as to each his own. My inclination is that they are the same entity.
 
I don't know about them having (friends). I don't even think any member here has ever met Chris, looking back at the STE thread.

However, I do think the members here should have a say so in the matter when members have a Fauna's good guy banner on their site. If they can not be honest with their fellow members here, as well as ducking and darting the truth and, or scamming, then why should they have a GGC banner displayed on their site? A GGC banner should be in place for honest sellers, not ones that have a hard time telling the truth, or running a less than good business. JMHO. :shrug01:
 
I don't know about them having (friends). I don't even think any member here has ever met Chris, looking back at the STE thread.
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Yeah, that's why I put "friends" in quotations. I meant it in the sense of their Fauna friends, not real life friends.

A GGC banner should be in place for honest sellers, not ones that have a hard time telling the truth, or running a less than good business. JMHO.
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Absolutely, 100% agree with you on that. :)
 
Griz said:
I understand that it, just like the karma system etc, can be abused and that's a shame. However, my gut instincts are rarely wrong and so long as I have the option of removing my vote when the time is right, then I believe you (Fauna community) have an obligation to cast your vote.

Griz
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By the same token I believe as a community we have a larger obligation to wait until wrong doing is proven. So far I have seen a lot of circumstantial "evidence" and no actual proof.

Suppose everyone decided to vote bad guy based on pressure from the handful of posters here who are convinced that this guy is the same as the other person. Then 2 months from now it is proven that he is in fact not this Damon character. What then? You can go back and change your vote, but can you reverse the potential damage to his business that was caused by the two months of being labeled a "bad guy"?

You mention your gut and how it is rarely wrong, that's fine if you are comfortable going on your gut feeling, but don't presume that it is everyones "obligation" to vote bad guy. Some of us possibly require a higher level of proof than circumstantial "evidence" and gut feelings before we are willing to cast a negative vote against someone.
 
Sam that post is probably the most refreshing little bit of logic and rational thought in this 32 page sea of mostly garbage. You are to be commended.
 
Gecko_Den said:
By the same token I believe as a community we have a larger obligation to wait until wrong doing is proven. So far I have seen a lot of circumstantial "evidence" and no actual proof.

Suppose everyone decided to vote bad guy based on pressure from the handful of posters here who are convinced that this guy is the same as the other person. Then 2 months from now it is proven that he is in fact not this Damon character. What then? You can go back and change your vote, but can you reverse the potential damage to his business that was caused by the two months of being labeled a "bad guy"?

You mention your gut and how it is rarely wrong, that's fine if you are comfortable going on your gut feeling, but don't presume that it is everyones "obligation" to vote bad guy. Some of us possibly require a higher level of proof than circumstantial "evidence" and gut feelings before we are willing to cast a negative vote against someone.
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Understood Sam but the opposite is also true. What if he does harm to another and we did nothing?

My belief is that we have to vote our conscience when it comes to this. Your conscience is telling you to remain neutral. Mine is stating otherwise. It's when your conscience is telling you something that I believe you have an obligation to vote.

Griz
 
Griz said:
Understood Sam but the opposite is also true. What if he does harm to another and we did nothing?

My belief is that we have to vote our conscience when it comes to this. Your conscience is telling you to remain neutral. Mine is stating otherwise. It's when your conscience is telling you something that I believe you have an obligation to vote.

Griz
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I see and respect your point of view as well Bob. However, I just haven't seen it shown anywhere in the thread that he is hurting anyone, or the potential harm to anyone. I have seen several good guy posts but no bad guy posts. It is possible that I missed them, but it seems to me that for now people are rushing to judge based on suspicion and circumstance. Which is of course their right to do, I just took exception to the suggestion that the community was under some sort of "obligation" to vote "Bad Guy" based on something that may or may not be true.
:)
 
varnyard said:
I have one answer to the whole GGC system.

Do good business, be honest and you will not draw a bad vote. It is not that hard, it is called doing the right thing.
Bobby, this is not true. I had several people, all of whom had had their asses handed to them by myself, on more than one occasion, vote me as a bad guy when I had my GGC. It is the reason I had it removed.

The GGC is more of a group opinion of someone, not a guide to how they do business per se.

The trader rating is ONLY for business doings and ONLY reflects on those business only doings.

The two do quite different though complimentary things.

It's sort of like a big bar, or playground, depending on how you look at life. The regulars all talk, be they drunken psuedo adults imbibing at will, or kids sharing swings and merry-go-rounds, about new people, old people, dealings they've had with people, dealings they've only heard third or fourth hand about, what they think today as opposed to yesterday and why it may be different tomorrow. That's the GGC.

Trader ratings are where you go to court, swear by whatever you hold in respect, put YOUR reputation on the line, and give your opinion of your deal with a particular person for a particular transaction.

Some of us, whether we want to or not, have opinions that are either given weight or disparraged. When we give those opinions we affect whomever we have an opinion on, which way depends on the listener, but a decision can be based on what is ONLY an opinion.

Each person must decide for themselves whether they CARE enough about THIER opinion to voice it and let others take heed or ignore that opinion.

No one has to give that opinion, no one has to listen to it, but if no one who could did, those who shouldn't would be running rampant with those who wouldn't know any better.
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