How many boas are there?

[Art Klass]

I think we can all agree on B. c. constrictor and B. c. imperator without any fuss. But what about the validity of other subspecies? The others that I come up with are B. c. longicauda, B. c. melanogaster, B. c. ortoni, B. c. amarali and B. c. occidentalis.

What is it that determines subspecies status in Boa constrictors? Saddle count? Scalation? It seems to me that the dorsal and ventral scale counts overlap among the different subspecies.

Of course each subspecies has their own appearance, for the most part. The range of several subspecies also overlaps each other which must result in the two subspecies cross breeding.

I'm looking for your thoughts and opinions regarding this topic. I do think there may be many different opinions out there resulting in some food for thought. Thanks in advance.

 

[JCCS]

I know of three that you are missing. B.C. Nebulosa from, if I'm not mistaken, the Dominican republic, B.C. Orophias from St Lucia, and B.C. Sabogae from Pearl Island off of Panama.

The dorsal and ventral counts do lap over in many subspecies. Saddle count also has a lot to do with it. Bone and body structure seems to be very different any many of them as well. I believe that other localities dosplay different enough traits, physically and behaviorally, to entitle them to be a subspecies, such as Caulker Cay and Corn Island.

Chris

 

[Art Klass]

I know of three that you are missing. B.C. Nebulosa from, if I'm not mistaken, the Dominican republic, B.C. Orophias from St Lucia, and B.C. Sabogae from Pearl Island off of Panama.

So that brings us to ten.

Bone and body structure seems to be very different any many of them as well. I believe that other localities dosplay different enough traits, physically and behaviorally, to entitle them to be a subspecies, such as Caulker Cay and Corn Island.

The Hogg Island Boa is in the middle of controversy for that very reason. Insular species are dwarfed with a shorter snout and somewhat protruding eyes. Look at their coloration and patterning. I don't know about Hogg scalation, but IMO I think they should be a separate subspecies.

 

[Junkyard]

I guess the Bc melanogaster can be added.

I am partial to the Honduran boas, they are classified as Bcc, though along with the Corn Island and Caulker Cay. Though we are now getting into species that are also in the same controversial boat as the Hogg Island boas and can be considered the same species. Though I agree that they should have their own subspecies.

With the crossbreeding of boas, do we then end up with a new species? Or does that only apply to breeding different species of snakes, eg; Ball Python x Blood Python=Super Ball or Burmese Python x Reticulated Python=Bateater

Okay that may be too far on the controversial side of things.

 

[JCCS]

Hondurans, Caulker Cays and Corns are BCI. Porbably just a mistype. I believe that Hogs should be classified as BCI. I believe that most Boas that are classified as BCI are correct. Hogs are not a dwarf species, female are usually around 5 1/2' to 6 1/2'. That, in my mind, does not make them a dwarf locality. They are very different colorwise.
Caulker Cays have very different skull structures, much larger eyes and are very arboreal. I believe that these definetly should be a different ssp.
Corn Islands should be their own ssp not because of their appearance, which is drastically different but because of their behavior. They act almost like elapids. They do not grasp ahold of you when you handle them and they shoot around their cage during feeding time, unlike most bci which like to ambush prey.
I also belive one other Locality should be it's own ssp, this one may be more debateable. The Costa Ricans are very different from other bci I have kept. They grow much larger than surrounding locales and are much more aggressive. They are approximately the same size as Colombians.
I have been up all night so I don't know if this makes too much sense, but there it is anyway.

Chris Canada-Smith

 

[Art Klass]

With the crossbreeding of boas, do we then end up with a new species? Or does that only apply to breeding different species of snakes, eg; Ball Python x Blood Python=Super Ball or Burmese Python x Reticulated Python=Bateater

Well, someone correct me if I am wrong, breeding two separate species is hybridization whereas the breeding of two subspecies of the same breed is considered an intergrade.

The line is fuzzy to me as to when a boa is given subspecies status. Who is the authority in these matters? Is it a matter of being published in an acredited journal? Is it a popularity issue?

I'm sorry everyone. I have many more questions than answers. Maybe we can hammer some of this out together.

 

[Mike Greathouse]

Boa ssp

Here's a pretty decent list to start working from.
I welcome any clarifications or corrections.

Order Squamata
Suborder Serpentes (Ophidia)
Infraorder Henophidia (Boidae)
Subfamily Boinae

Acrantophis

Acrantophis dumerili - Dumeril's boa
Acrantophis madagascariensis - Madagascar ground boa

Boa

Boa constrictor amarali
Boa constrictor constrictor
Boa constrictor imperator
Boa constrictor longicauda
Boa constrictor mexicana
Boa constrictor nebulosa
Boa constrictor occidentalis
Boa constrictor orophias
Boa constrictor ortonii
Boa constrictor sabogae

Candoia

Candoia aspera - Viper Boa
Candoia bibroni - Pacific Boa
Candoia bibroni australis - Solomon Island Tree Boa
Candoia carinata - New Guinea Tree Boa
Candoia paulsoni - Solomon Island Ground boa

Corallus

Corallus annulatus - Ringed Tree Boa
Corallus caninus - Emerald Tree Boa
Corallus cookie
Corallus cropanii
Corallus hortulanus - Garden Tree Boa
Corallus ruschenbergerii - Ruschenberger Tree Boa


Epicrates

Epicrates angulifer - Cuban Boa
Epicrates cenchria - Rainbow Boa
Epicrates chrysogaster - Turk's Island Boa
Epicrates exsul - Abaco Island Boa
Epicrates fordii - Ford's Boa
Epicrates gracilis - Hispaniola Boa
Epicrates inornatus - Puerto Rican Boa
Epicrates maurus - Brown Rainbow Boa
Epicrates monensis - Mona Island Boa
Epicrates striatus - Haitian Boa
Epicrates subflavus - Jamaican Yellow Boa


Eunectes

Eunectes beniensis
Eunectes deschauenseei - Dark-spotted Anaconda
Eunectes murinus - Green Anaconda
Eunectes notaeus - Yellow Anaconda


Sanzinia

Sanzinia madagascariensis - Madagascar Tree Boa

 

[hhmoore]

Well, someone correct me if I am wrong, breeding two separate species is hybridization whereas the breeding of two subspecies of the same breed is considered an intergrade.QUOTE]
Yes - breeding two separate species is hybridization.
Technically, though, an intergrade is the breeding of two subspecies in an area of range overlap. If there is no range overlap, then it is not really an intergrade.
As for the head and eye structure of some of the insular boas, that could easily be attributed to the amount of inbreeding that has occurred due to isolation. Also, everything I have read about Hog Island boas seems to indicate that the wild type was smaller than what we are seeing in captivity now...Basically, the increased growth is due to the way we feed them

 

[JCCS]

Hi Harold, I disagree on the size of the Hog Island issue. This is a picture of a wild caught Hog Island, it is as large if not larger than any in my own collection.
Many of the larger "Hog Islands" that we see are not from Cayos de Cochinos, but are lighter specimens taken from mainland Honduras. Gus Rentfro has written some things on insular boas where people have upped their food intake and they have not gotten longer, only girthier. Also, my Caulker Cay females are '03's, are fed regularly, and the largest one is around 34-36" The other one is around 24-26".

Chris Canada-Smith

 

[hhmoore]

Yup - I've seen that picture, and pictures of captives that are bigger still. Please keep in mind that my statement began everything I have read about Hog Island boas seems to indicate. Unfortunately, I have no first hand experience with wild populations::

 

[Art Klass]

Boa constrictor amarali
Boa constrictor constrictor
Boa constrictor imperator
Boa constrictor longicauda
Boa constrictor mexicana
Boa constrictor nebulosa
Boa constrictor occidentalis
Boa constrictor orophias
Boa constrictor ortonii
Boa constrictor sabogae

Thanks Mike. I didn't have mexicana. Add B. c. melanogaster to the list for a total of 11 so far.

Technically, though, an intergrade is the breeding of two subspecies in an area of range overlap. If there is no range overlap, then it is not really an intergrade.

That's good to know Harold. If an intergrade is a breeding among two subspecies in an area of range overlap, then is there a particular name for a breeding of two subspecies where there is no range overlap?

Many of the larger "Hog Islands" that we see are not from Cayos de Cochinos, but are lighter specimens taken from mainland Honduras.

I thought Hoggs came from Cayos de Cochinos originally, but when the island became depleated they were collected from other nearby islands. I was not aware that they were also collected from the mainland. Thanks for that tidbit.

 

[Jake The Snake]

Here's a pretty decent list to start working from.
I welcome any clarifications or corrections.

Boa

Boa constrictor amarali
Boa constrictor constrictor
Boa constrictor imperator
Boa constrictor longicauda
Boa constrictor mexicana
Boa constrictor nebulosa
Boa constrictor occidentalis
Boa constrictor orophias
Boa constrictor ortonii
Boa constrictor sabogae

boa constrictor melanogaster
boa constrictor sigma
I think you left those out

 

[Art Klass]

boa constrictor melanogaster
boa constrictor sigma
I think you left those out

Thanks for your post Jake. We have listed melanogaster, but not sigma. I have not heard of that one. Where does it come from? Art

 

[Jake The Snake]

It says in this book here the stigme, Tres Marias Island Boa is found off of only 1 island about 60 miles off the pacific coast of mexico