How to kill a sale!

[John Apple]

Danny I see your point

"thes is a codamanet trat

I see your point , I guess grammer has a lot to do with how an honest herper comes across

peace

 

[NEWReptiles]

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13642


Look in the background, I see this as another great way to kill a sale. Im not trying to knock this guy, but if the surroundings are that messy, how are the snakes kept?

 

[Fred Albury]

Background is totally important

AL is totally right about this one...

I had a guy once sell me a Suriname Boa, the picture looked GREAT in terms of the boa, great color, a nice SURINAME BCC.

I sent the money out.

It was shipped to me 4 days later.

It was dark, rather ugly, and the colors on the picture were
no where to be found. I was told be the seller that it needed heat, humidity.

I gave it both...

It shed...

Still was ugly as sin..........

Then i looked at the pic again to compare it.

the guy had taken the pic of the snake in his BATHROOM!
with a nice shot of the toilet and EMPTY toilet paper roll in
the background!!!

I didnt pay attention...
I saw the hole instead of the donut....


We settled the matter weeks later, he gave me half my money back and I got to kep the snake.

I sold it at the next reptile show, for a tiny price.

I agree, if the guy isnt going to be interested enough to take pics in an area that doesnt distract you, that doesnt have trash and empty containers in the background, then he doesnt want the sale. Honstly, we all have snake rooms that get cluttered like this from time to time. but to leave it that way is wrong, and in terms of sales, just plain dumb.


P.S.
This guy is also not just selling any reg snake..he is selling HETS, honestly, how are you going to trust someone you dont know to sell you snakes that are HETS, in light of the dirty conditions in the pic?


Sincerely,

Fred Albury

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Please allow me the liberty to reprint the original quote:

“thes snakes are 2002 babays they were produse form salmon hypo to salmon hypo thes makes them f2s I have 10 here are some of the nice ones. 500 each thes is a codamanet trat.the 3 I posted are all females.”

Now please read another quote, this one from Keeping And Breeding Snakes (Mattison, Chris. Blanford Press, London. 1992. p. 66)

“Care of the common boa is normally straightforward, although newborn snakes can be delicate, being especially susceptible, in my experience, to cold. Adults and young require a temperature approaching 30 C (86 F), although this may be allowed to drop slightly at night. Diet is mice, rats and rabbits, according to the size of the snake, and so some individuals will, if necessary, take chicks and other birds."

How would the person who wrote the ad in question read the Mattison quote and, how would the same person relay this type of information to someone buying a snake from him/her? I can, of course only guess, based upon the content of the original ad. My guess would be along these lines:

'car of thes commonboa is normal straight. all tough newborn snakes can deficate. be especially in my experience suspectable when cold adults and young require a temperature 30 to 86 but you can drop it at night. Diet is mice rats and rabbits according to size some individuals will necessary take chicks and birds.'

Maybe I am not giving the author of the ad enough credit about how he/she would interpret the Mattison quote, or about how he/she would relay this information to someone else. I could be wrong but, the grammatical structure and spelling of the advertisement certainly does make me wonder if such would be along the lines of the advice one would receive from the author of the ad. In fact, I am wondering, even more so, if the whole thing is just a joke of some sort?

If it is not a joke – do you really want to buy an animal from someone who wrote an ad like that? I certainly would not do so. Why – well, if for no other reason than my doubt (based upon my opinion) about his/her possible (maybe even probable) inability to interpret and pass on written instructions and; yes I base my doubt upon the content of his/her written ad.

Hopefully this was a bit more objective than my last response to this thread.
Best regards,
Glenn

 

[Seamus Haley]

Something I question in that second ad is contained within the last few lines... The 66% possible het for albino female then has a comment to the effect of "the odds of her being het are HUGE!" after her description...

Which is either dishonest or shows a serious lack of understanding about how basic mendelian genetics work. Either way it gives an impression that is not truthful to the customer, which, intentional or not, isn't morally right.

Each zygote has it's own individual set of odds based on the genetics of the parents (Or possible genetics of the parents). Since albinos were produced in the clutch and no mention of the parents being albino themselves was made, it's safe to assume it was a het to het breeding, which would result in the 66% likelyhood of the female in question being heterozygous for albino... But that 66% chance is the specifics odds of her being a heterozygous animal and the other offspring in the clutch have nothing whatsoever to do with the likelyhood of her genetics.

There are actually additional factors and likelyhoods inherent in anything where you're trying to predict probability but they're nearly impossible to calculate into something of this nature when determining which sperm met with which ovum but... looking at the "big picture" and utilizing unspecified numbers of indeterminate value, there would logically be a slightly lowered chance of the remaining animals being heterozygous when multiple albinos were produced in such a fashion, although this is a conclusion that can only be based off a much wider tendency from multiple breedings and multiple animals of identical traits and, because of the enormous uncertainty inherent in the bassic assumption that the avaliable reproductive cells are composed, numerically of approximately 50% the reccessive trait and 50% the dominant and that there is no physical inhibition to the equal success of the individual reproductive cells... So, as I said, it's a virtual non-issue and it's best to consider each zygote as an independant equation (which it is really) since there's very little difference between 66% (which isn't exactly accurate anyway, it should be 66.66666[repeating decimal]%) and 65.6666664% isn't something that would (Or should) be taken into account by an individual making relatively few pairings with their animals...

Point being, saying there's a stronger chance that the animal will be heterozygous based off the other offspring in the clutch is inappropriate and dishonest.

 

[Seamus Haley]

65.6666664%

I just wanted to add that this is a number I simply created, it's not a factual represntation of the actual likelyhood of the animal's being heterozygous, it's simply something that I used as an example because it's very close to 66%

The exact likelyhood can't be predicted because it's not really a given that there is an exact 50/50 split between the traits the gametes are actually carrying, but it's close enough to reasonabally assume that there would likely be a fairly equal number and as such, the comments about the increased chances on an unproven 66% possible animal STILL wouldn't be any higher because there were albinos produced and would STILL logically be very slightly LOWER (although in an almost meaningless sense because of the number of gametes the male produces).

 

[The BoidSmith]

If it is not a joke – do you really want to buy an animal from someone who wrote an ad like that?

No it was not a joke. On the same day there were two additional ads posted by the same company. None of the other two had the grammatical errors this one had. It seems as if there are two partners to the firm, but I would absoultely leave the writing of the adds to one of them.

Best regards.

 

[John Apple]

Stupidity and Ignorance
These are definate sale killers
I can remember many years ago as a fledgling , I was going to buy a cornsnake from a pet store here in Ann Arbor [the store was in the Plymouth Mall] Well the person was so quick to sell me a snake that he told me this 'corn' was eating crickets for a couple of months. I also remember what I read in a book that corns as pets ate mice rats and birds. Needless to say at fourteen years old I had enough sence to go to another store with my Mother[ cmon I was fourteen I can't drive] which I made a nice purchase on a yellow rat that lived for 7 more years.
There are many ignorant people out there that think all of us are stupid

 

[Pennebaker]

OK, OK...

Some level of professionalism is definitely lacking in the herp industry. I think that half the reason for people making it in this biz does have to do with marketing and advertising, the other half is still the animals (some make it more on one side than the other).
Adds that I cannot comprehend I click right off of. Shorthand beyond LOL is gibberish to me. Not everyone is computer lingo literate.
Messy rooms--well, my bedroom does look like that sometimes, but you wont see me taking photos in there. My excuse--I spend too much time cleaning up after all the animals that I have no time left to clean up after myself. Better make some money so I can hire a caretaker.
As for reptile breeders/dealers at shows being out of shape--I'd say it is a pretty good sampling of the American average. A couple well stacked guys like Fred (wish there were more ; ) ), and then a bunch of Homer Simpsons, and a bunch in the middle. I do not know how much that really reflects on the industry.

Harsh truth is that customers are nitpicky--they are used to flashy adds, hollywood appearances, and glossy brochures. You want customers, you gotta flash them to some degree to get their attention (a good photo and decent grammar is a start)--then give them the quality info to make the right choices.
Now if only I had more money to get more flashy!

Dana

 

[NEWReptiles]

Messy rooms--well, my bedroom does look like that sometimes,

It looked like a snake room to me. And no matter what it is, I have never seen any room like that.

I will be the first to admit I take better care of my animals and thier surroundings than I do myself.

 

[NEWReptiles]

, we all have snake rooms that get cluttered like this from time to time. but to leave it that way is wrong, and in terms of sales, just plain dumb.

I agree, at times space may make things look cluttered, but this pic showed a nasty mess in my eyes. To me it didnt look like a temporary mess.

 

[The BoidSmith]

We have argued in countless ocassions that pictures are essential when doing business on the web.

If you are going through the "trouble" and cost of taking digital pictures, let that be an asset and not a liability for your business. You don't have to be a professional photographer in order to take decent pictures. If it so happens that you haven't had the time to clean your snake room, how hard is it to use a sheet or any other background?

Whether you believe it or not, In internet sales the picture takes the place of the front window of your retail shop! If looking through the window of a pet shop, I see the employees' underwear hanging to dry in the background I will most probably keep on walking (or browsing the web ads for that matter).

One example that strikes me in particular is that of the store "Prehistoric Pets". Hopefully none will feel offended by this example as it is intended as such, just an example. The fact is, I never bought from them, so I don't know first hand the quality of their animals. In a thread about them, several people stated their husbandry practices, animals, etc. were less than desirable.

On the other hand though, the pictures on their ads always have high definition, the animal is dispayed in a way you can see it full body, and there is always a natural, neat background. Add to that a caption with a couple of coherent (or at least semi-coherent; you don't need a "textbook" on the species) lines of what you are offering under the picture and you will find potential customers going once and again through your ad.

Best regards.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Just a couple of examples to illustrate what I meant.

Please compare this add:

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=59128

With the picture on this add:

http://market.kingsnake.com/image/49776.jpg

The ball python in this second picture is in a clean container so no complaints about the background. I'm not sure if the picture was distorted or what, but take a look at his head! In the add the animal is depicted as "perfect", it even states "click in the pic to enlarge". If anyone was interested in this animal, the first thing to do will obviously be to ask if there was something wrong with the picture and/or the snake.

Best regards.

 

[dwedeking]

There seems to be some debate on usage of marketing materials both by the goods guys and the bad guys.

Marketing gets you the first sale. The level of marketing needed is deteremined by your competition. If your competition is placing ads with unsanitary conditions in the background and gibberish that is not related to a language then you don't have to exert too much effort. If, on the other hand, your competition is placing ads with decent pictures and readable text you may need to step it up a bit.

Products and service get your second sale. If the marketing materials are not back up with substance then you will not get repeat customers.

No legitmate business can survive on only "one-time" sales for the long run. Those flashy marketing materials cost money and take time to develop. Repeat customers are where the pot of gold is located and this REQUIRES more than hollywood flash.

Bankruptcy courts are littered with the remains of small businesses that never learned to market AND also those that didn't learn that there is profit in customer service and quality products.

 

[The BoidSmith]

No legitmate business can survive on only "one-time" sales for the long run. Those flashy marketing materials cost money and take time to develop. Repeat customers are where the pot of gold is located and this REQUIRES more than hollywood flash.

Excellent post Daniel! On more than one ocassion I have seen sellers talk about their one-time customers. In MHO a customer is the one that buys from you more than once. Here is where the after-sale support becomes more than important. More often than not there's a lot of communication before the transaction takes place. Once the goods and the money change hands the communication ceases.

Best regards.

 

[Fred Albury]

"Build it.....and they will come"

**GLOSSY* **PRETTY** **WELL DEFINED**


AND OFTEN THESE ARE ALL

SMOKESCREEN

For anmals that are in ill health and have been taken
poor care of. Not always, example being Gus Renfro, he
posts great looking ads, sells healthy great looking
snakes, and gives good customer service.


But not everyone that posts things in a
"professional" manner sells reptiles that
are healthy.


But of course you would think teyare, because after
all, they went through the trouble of putting up a nice
clear pciture on the net with a GREAT LOOKING
ad.

Addenum: I have been a vocal opponent of
Prehistoric Pets for what seems like forever. I
have been there, seen the diry, crappy conditions,
seen the snakes with mites and ticks, seen the dry
empty waterbowls and the old urates in the cages.
Had fellow reptile breeders make a trip UP THERE
to verify same. BUT I am Happy to say that a friend
of mine went up there less than 3 weeks ago and
as FUSSY as HE IS(Really bad) he gave Prehistoric a
THUMBS UP and said that all those terrbile conditions
had dissappeared, the reptiles looked GREAT and
healthy, and it was the best display that hed ever seen.
So, now their store MATCHES their geat ads.



Sincerely,

Fred Albury

 

[The BoidSmith]

Again, nothing bad to say about them, nice looking snakes, etc. but...

This ad appeared today 02/17:

thes are 2002 growing fast codamanent genebeed to normal get 50% hypos 50%normals. also beed to albino get hets for sunglow breed to anary get hets for ghoust beed hypo to hypo get 25% super hypos

Yet another ad from the same seller:

this is adomanent gene breed to a hypo get sunsets they have lots of color and very littel pattern

At this point I'm more inclined to believe that is probably dyslexia. One way or the other, the concepts expressed are difficult to understand. One point I want to make clear though. This alone will probably not discourage me from buying from them if I liked what they had to offer.

On the other hand (and in reply to Fred's post), in spite of the nice ads put together by Prehistoric Pets, having read all the comments about them on the BOI has discouraged me from buying from them. At least from my perspective the customer's experiences do matter more than flashy ads.

Best regards.

 

[Fred Albury]

Prehistoric gets clean bill of health

Again..I say, with me as the HARSHEST critics of stores and brokers in general, my good friend went to Prehistoric in Fountain Valley, and having seen with his own eyes what condition the shop was in, gave them an A+ rateing. Since I trust his judgement, and have asked him a MULTITUDE of question regarding the husbandry of the place, I can honestly say they must have really busted there behinds to get the place into the shape it is in now. Guess it rates as a truly good store at this point. My friend is a real clean freak...so if the place even came CLOSE to being dirty or unkept he would have told me that.


Sincerely,

Fred Albury
AZTEC REPTILES

 

[The BoidSmith]

Fred,

That's good to know and it does makes more sense. It was hard to believe how they could be selling $15,000 snakes and yet have a messy facility. New management maybe?

Best regards!