hypo = co-dominant

[diablohogs]

touche

There are other colors that can manifest in the pattern, not just black.

got me there.


BUT... have those other colors been line bred out? does a super hypo wipe out tyronese (i always mess up the spelling of that word, sorry...lol) as well. if so than would that explain why a bell/tremper/rainwater albino still has spots, being as they are T+?

 

[diablohogs]

off topic....

Kelli... isnt being a geckophile illegal?

actually im sure "phile" just means obsession. in which case. its more than accurate and i guess that would make me one to.

kudos on a clever tag!

 

[GeckoTracks]

BLAH

Ok getting a little annoyed of why you’re making such a stink about this gecko. Steve Bred him, I bought him, enough said... we know very well what he is which is a Bell het, I'm considering in buying the parents from Steve too. I'd like to work on this and see if anymore can be done if this could be a new morph/color or to find out if its a fluke and just a really nice leo.

As you can see he doesn't have red eyes either, which is a very noticeable trait in bell albinos, more than just a few people will agree with that. Nor is he in shed either. I always take photos after my herps have shed; many people know that from me.

There's the pair I had purchased from Steve and all I can say, I'm so glad I bugged Steve to death about buying some bell hets from him Oh BTW Steve they are just about ready to breed, Next month looks good, I'll let you know when I have eggs ¤Fingers Crossed¤ Well let me know if any more pictures are needed to be taken or anymore info is needed

 

[diablohogs]

a STINK?!

Ok getting a little annoyed of why you’re making such a stink about this gecko

Steve posted the picture, asked the questions, and challenged me, and everyone else to identify it. if you have a problem with your gecko being talked about, which i really cant see why you would, take it up with him. nuff said?

we know very well what he is which is a Bell het, I'm considering in buying the parents from Steve too. I'd like to work on this and see if anymore can be done if this could be a new morph/color or to find out if its a fluke and just a really nice leo.

you realize you just contradicted yourself, right?

if you know very well what it is than you wouldnt need to work with it some more to find out if its a fluke or a morph.

As you can see he doesn't have red eyes either, which is a very noticeable trait in bell albinos

albino lepard geckos in general are known for not having noticably red eyes. some have redder eyes than others and vice versa.

 

[GeckoTracks]

WHOA down there partner, you are taking yourself a little too far, do you have a problem with being wrong or a problem with someone who can actually show you your making a bit of a fool of yourself. You seem to be quite confused.

a bell albino (im guessing thats what the top one is) is amelanistic. meaning NO melanin. ahh but it still has spots.... very clever.

not an albino...
than its a hypo... and i would like to change my answer to your previously asked question to: the top one.

now i would call it either:

A) a normal in shed
or
B) a different form of hypomelanism
or
C) a form of albinism

so which is it? of course you've already stated that its not amelinistic.

that it isnt a bell albino...?

you say its a het... it looks like a bell to me, maybe not one as nice as what Kelli showed us but i still think its possible that it is a Bell. What were the parents? were they bell hets? or were they a normal x bell/het for bell?

For one thing you are the one that keeps questioning wither we are sure if its a albino or not, therefore the part "we know very well what it is, which is a BELL HET". Though it CAN be proven to be something else later, why else to people test for other things even though they have something for another trait. Ever thought that’s what I meant?... No of course not you don’t try to read between lines. I honestly I don’t believe you think of all sides of every possibility, and possible different suggestions, you cant be right all the time, heck I know i'm not, just consider other possibilities and don’t snuff them out when a idea or thought is thrown out. And well for the red eyes, Bells do have red eyes. Bells have red eyes different shades but red, Rainwaters from what I heard are mostly gray eyes and Trempers tend to be pink and grayish, with very few being red. OK Deep breath we arent trying to start a war here, But consider the possiblities and also please atleast when you read the threads to look at it not only in your veiw

 

[diablohogs]

wow!

WHOA down there partner, you are taking yourself a little too far, do you have a problem with being wrong or a problem with someone who can actually show you your making a bit of a fool of yourself. You seem to be quite confused.

honestly i think you have a lot of gall. this was a nice calm conversation, educated and scientific, until you came along talking about how your "annoyed" with your little angry face icon and i'm "making a bit of a fool of myself".

if i believe something i'm going to bring it up in a discussion and im not afraid to explain myself or use science to back up my opinion.

all you have done on this thread is talk trash to me. not even very well. what is it your trying to prove?

lets back up a little and reitterate the points you've made...

1) you know that its a bell het. but you dont know what the phenotype is of your gecko. even though you clearly stated you knew "very well" what it is. those are your words. you cant know very well what it is if you dont know the phenotype!!!!

2) your annoyed because the gecko in question is part of your collection now... and for unknown reasons it bothers youthat were all trying to figure out what it might be.

3) by trying to figure out what even you (the owner) and steve (the breeder) cant figure out (the phenotype of said gecko) im makin "a bit of a fool of myself". pah-lease lady. first of all the original topic was about hypo being a co-dominant gene than all of a sudden hypo isnt hypo, than look what i have and i dont know what it is but hypos not hypo in leopard geckos, than i of course have had to argue that hypo is indeed hypo in leopard geckos using several other reptiles as an example (am i fool yet?). now my thread explaining why hypo is a co-dominant gene has become a thread on trying to figure out what the frig it is you have. admittingly its a little interesting seeing something new, but i can live without your attitude. you need to pump your brakes and stop and reread your posts. your the only "fool" here.

p.s. thank you steve for showing me a potentially new morph. i enjoyed pondering what it might be. i still stand by my statement that hypo is co-dominant in leopard geckos and that what we call hypo in leopard geckos in in fact a form of hypomelanism. this is based on my experience with hondurans and hognose which both have numerous forms of hypomelanism both where the black is muted and where the black pigment is reduced to the point of being almost nonexsistant like in leopard geckos.

oh and kimberly...the only thing im confused about is what the phenotype of your gecko is which would put me in the same boat as you and everyone else.

 

[E2MacPets]

than i of course have had to argue that hypo is indeed hypo in leopard geckos using several other reptiles as an example (am i fool yet?).

Except I refuted your claim by pointing out that other pigments than just melanin are displayed in the pattern of a leopard gecko, whereas your definition of a hypo leopard gecko has minimal pattern at all.

p.s. thank you steve for showing me a potentially new morph. i enjoyed pondering what it might be. i still stand by my statement that hypo is co-dominant in leopard geckos and that what we call hypo in leopard geckos in in fact a form of hypomelanism. this is based on my experience with hondurans and hognose which both have numerous forms of hypomelanism both where the black is muted and where the black pigment is reduced to the point of being almost nonexsistant like in leopard geckos.

Unfortunately I don't know enough about honduran or hognose snakes to effectively argue the differences in their mutations versus the traits displayed in leopard geckos.

I said in my first reply to this thread that what is currently called hypo in leopard geckos is co-dominant. That is a fact that is pretty well accepted. And I felt that since we were discussing the genetics of hypo leopard geckos it would be appropriate to introduce the question of whether in fact we are using the term hypo correctly.

We called patternless leucistic until blizzards came around. What we call hypo now might be replaced when a more accurate representation of hypomelanistic comes into prominance.

If reduced pattern leopard geckos were truly hypo than they wouldn't be reduced pattern. They would still possibly have lavender, brown, and other colors capable of being displayed by leopard geckos in their patterning. But it is a different mutation, not strictly a hypomelanistic mutation as it effects all pigmentation in the patterning.

I feel I have represented my points well. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

[Sybella]

Kelli, thank you...if you can find those pictures, I'd really appreciate it.

 

[Seamus Haley]

Er...

To the best of my knowledge, every strain of albinism (Amelanism, just so there's no confusion) in leopard geckos is tyrosinase positive. Right?

A tyrosinase positive animal still produces melanin, it simply can't be sequestered in the melanophores and gives the animal the look of a "dirty albino" which can often be very similar to what a hypomelanistic animal looks like if the experience of the one doing the looking lies with a different species.

If someone approaches the terms involved with a background in a different species, where the known amel forms are tryosinase negative and don't produce melanin to begin with, they're used to seeing amels as being "white" (or yellow or reddish, but no brown) and hypos as being lighter brown/black but not the pure white... Since tyrosinase positive albinism does have the animals producing melanin, but it's constantly "lost" since it doesn't end up in the melanophores, the animals are frequently capable of displaying a light brown coloration. They are still amelanistic, simply a different form.

It's also important not to confuse phenotype with genotype. A phenotype unto itself doesn't automatically have an underlying genotype and can be caused by any number of factors. It's also possible for seemingly identical phenotypes to be the result of entirely unrelated genotypes. For this reason alone it's inappropriate to start comparing known genotypical pattern and color mutations between species. While it serves as a common ground in a manner of speaking when it comes to identifying a pattern/color displayed by a specific animal, most of the terms relating to phenotypes have a great deal of leeway in what is actually SEEN on the animal.

Hey Montesir! Where's that line of hypermelanistic tyrosinase positive albinos anyway?! I demand milk chocolate leopard geckos, just to prove my point here! (Kidding about the demand, but it did sound like an interesting project and I'd love to hear any and all updates)

 

[KelliH]

pictures

Just for fun

Bell Albinos-

 

[KelliH]

Temper and Rainwater Lines

Tremper-

Rainwater-

 

[beakgeek]

Beautiful animals Kelly. Wow!

Regards,

Terry

 

[KelliH]

Thanks Terry. I think I change my mind on a weekly basis about which strain of albino I like the best. They are all so beautiful.

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

I hate to say it, but I don't personally see what is so special about Steves new "morph". I have several animals with the same coloration, and they all came from my Tremper albino stock, and remind me of pastels in a way. Wonder if I got any pics lying around? Hmmm.....

 

[KelliH]

Yes

Post some pics if you find them!

 

[KelliH]

Here's a picture I dug up of a het Bell I produced a couple of years ago. He's kinda light colored like Steves is. I would define him as a pastel, but maybe his dark spots aren't as muted as Steve's. He was a neat gecko.

 

[Snakebyt]

Here's a picture I dug up of a het Bell I produced a couple of years ago. He's kinda light colored like Steves is. I would define him as a pastel, but maybe his dark spots aren't as muted as Steve's. He was a neat gecko.

Whoooo...lives in a pineapple, under the sea?
SPONGEBOB SQUAREPANTS!!!!


great pics Kelli

 

[Snakebyt]

SInce we are posting pics of different strains of albino ect.. i just want to show of the newest tangerine tremper i got a couple weeks ago..

 

[KelliH]

He's nice Terry, who produced him?

 

[Snakebyt]

i got him from JMG reptiles, saw there post in the classifieds a couple weeks ago and i had to have him. I also got 2 females from the same male that produced him, just a different mother. So the bloodline is there to produce some nice offspring.. you can see the pics fo the females here...http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35027