Hypo=Misnomer in boas. What do you think?

[ecmorrell]

I think Hypo is a misnomer in boas. Rather than less black, it's really MORE red. It should be called hypererythrism. Hyperys

No, I'lm not waging a campaign against calling it hypo, just pointing it out.

 

[snakehorse]

hypo in snakes, dilute in horses!

I'm new to snake breeding, but pretty knowledgable about horse breeding for color. In horses we have a coloration that acts similar to "hypo" in snakes - we call it dilute. A chestnut (red) horse with 1 dilute gene is a palomino (gold with white mane). A chestnut horse with 2 dilute genes is a cremello (pale yellow often with blue eyes). Once I figured out hypo was like our dilute gene in horses, I understood it better. In horses, the dilute does NOT affect black melanin! in other words, a black horse could carry it and wouldn't show it. When a bay horse (that's a horse that looks brown with black mane and tail points like a siamese cat) inherits 1 copy of the dilution gene, it turns buckskin - a tannish horse with black mane and tail. The mane and tail stay black because they aren't affected by the dilute gene. Does this happen in snakes? Is the hypo gene in fact only affecting the red and/or yellow melanin and not the black? Hope this isn't off topic.
Donna DeYoung

 

[ecmorrell]

Hypo is a dominant gene in boas (people will say it's codom, but they are wrong). The het form and the homo form look the same. So basically, if the gene gets passed on from one parent or both parents, the snake looks the same.

I guess there IS less black- but only because there is so much red.

I don't know about horses though... snakes are a lot simpler

 

[reptilebreeder]

I guess there IS less black- but only because there is so much red.

I don't work with BC's, but assuming that the hypo (melanistic) name given is the correct genetics, it might be that there is more red because there is less black (the opposite of your statement). The red becomes less muted and masked by the black. If indeed there is also an appreciable (actual increase) in red, then just calling it a hypererythristic would not be accurate either, as it does have reduced black. Not waging a campain against your hypererythrism, just pointing it out

 

[paulh]

I don't care much for the name "hypo" either. I prefer "salmon", which is the official name of the mutant gene.

I think that the salmon mutant gene produces both less black and more red in comparison to normal. A case can be made for more red because sunglows, which are a combination of salmon and albino, are redder than straight albinos. Are ghosts (salmon and anerythristic) lighter than straight anerythristics?

 

[ecmorrell]

I see what you're saying... although take Sunglows: Albinos and hypo. Instead of just looking like a regular albino (since the "less black" is all gone due to the albinism anyway), they have the extra red. The "Sunglow" doesn't exist in Milk Snakes, because we are fairly certain that the "Hybino" looks just like an albino. Less black, but who cares, all the black is gone anyway. JMHO

 

[ecmorrell]

"Are ghosts (salmon and anerythristic) lighter than straight anerythristics?"

Mine is!

 

[ecmorrell]

So yes... I think you've nailed it... Salmon is a mix of both extra red and less black.

 

[snakehorse]

Super Salmon? same phenotype as salmon?

On the subject of whether hypo is simple dominant, or co-dominant. I read somewhere that a homozygous salmon or hypo does look different. "Super salmons have even more reduced pattern, sometimes tongue and irises also appear salmon colored. almost no black flecking". I assume, its still hard to tell them apart? and could only be proven by breeding a possible super salmon to normal snake and see if all the offspring come out salmon?

I also read that there are two types of hypomelanistic bloodlines - the orange tails and the salmons, which may have come from the same Panama snake.

 

[snakehorse]

forgot to sign...guess I need to figure out how to automate a signature...
Donna DeYoung

 

[ecmorrell]

Here's a question: are hypos the same as Salmons? They're sold as both, and to me the Salmons look a little different, but that's just speculation.

Also, I hear a lot of people selling "possible" supers. So that makes me think that there's no visual difference between supers and regular, unless of course the sellers are just trying to get more money, which is also a possibility. But I'm pretty sure they can't be told apart.

 

[reptilebreeder]

The "Sunglow" doesn't exist in Milk Snakes, because we are fairly certain that the "Hybino" looks just like an albino. Less black, but who cares, all the black is gone anyway. JMHO

Oh, don't get me going on that one. I still don't understand that one-LOL. Buy my snake, it has less, no black ........although, to be honest on the hypos, especially like the falcons, the orange is different than on a normal, or even albino, so I guess if it was a hybino there would be a little bit of a difference.

 

[reptilebreeder]

forgot to sign...guess I need to figure out how to automate a signature...
Donna DeYoung

you don't have to sign every individual post, as long as your name is on the panel to the left.

<------------------------

besides, it's only mandatory on the BOI.

 

[paulh]

Here's a question: are hypos the same as Salmons? They're sold as both, and to me the Salmons look a little different, but that's just speculation.

When is a hypo not a hypo?

To me, there are no hypomelanistic boas because no mutant gene has been named "hypomelanistic". But there are a number of boas that are hypo in the sense of having less melanin than normal. In that sense, all salmons are hypos, and certainly salmons are commonly called hypos. But not all hypos are salmons. Orangetails and salmons may or may not trace back to the same snake; I do not have enough information for an opinion. On the other hand, pastels are from a selective breeding project, and there are the "T-positive albinos" which have less melanin than normals but more than the Kahl and Sharp strain albinos. So they could be called hypos, too, in my opinion.

Also, I hear a lot of people selling "possible" supers. So that makes me think that there's no visual difference between supers and regular, unless of course the sellers are just trying to get more money, which is also a possibility. But I'm pretty sure they can't be told apart.

From what I have heard, some homozygous salmons (supers) are different enough that the breeder can tell. But many cannot be distinguished from the heterozygous salmons (which have a salmon mutant gene paired with a normal gene). Statistically, mating two heterozygous salmons produces 1/4 homozygous salmons, 2/4 heterozygous salmons, and 1/4 normals. As a homozygous salmon x normal produces all heterozygous salmon babies, the homozygous salmons are worth more to a breeder. So it makes sense to me to label the "possible supers" as such because they could command a higher price or sell faster than the heterozygous salmons.

I wish that either all homozygous salmons looked like heterozygous salmons or all homozygous salmons did not look like heterozygous salmons. But that isn't the way things worked out. It just goes to show that nature is sloppy!

 

[ecmorrell]

It just goes to show that nature is sloppy!

Nature is incredible, but she sure wasn't being considerate of us snake breeders