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Hypo Snow

I dunno , Ide kinda find it useful (from someone i trust) to see a rating on a linebred Snow say if it was young . Because they would ( i guess ) be seeing some yellow allready at that point and be labeling it as lower grade .

Youre right it would be tough to say "A + " on a young animal though .

Now we have Super Snows ! No more yellow ! :)
 
I havent seen a SHCT snow as in my opinion, your SHCT snow is yellow....therefore not a snow...a snow is white. What is pictured is a yellow hypo....it might be carrying the MAck genes thus it can produce a snow (a white Leo), but it, itself is yellow in color and then by definition is not white, not a snow. (again not slamming anyone)
Simply put, I am saying to call a Leo a snow it should be white. A yellow Leo is just that....yellow. Snow indicates white. not pastel, not yellowish....white...
The a,b,c grades are a good idea as line bred snows do yellow up to a degree. They should not be rated until they are older and showing a more true coloring. BUt these Mack snows are more yellow then many linebreds I have seen. If the super snow is the only true snow as it is born white and STAYS white, then it is, IMO, the only Leo deserving of the snow name.
If ,as breeders, we wind up breeding a line bred snow that stays white then it too, will earn the term snow....
But these Macks, carrying a snow gene, are clearly yellow...even some as babies...so how can we call a yellow Leo a snow? We can say it carries Mack snow genes, but we can't call a yellow Leo a snow. WIth my point again, being that we dont call a normal Leo that is carrying Blizzard or Albino or Patternless genes anything but a normal het for whatever.
So why are we calling these yellow leos carrying the snow gene by the genes they are carrying and not by what they are displaying?

Lets say someone develops an all black morph and calls it...uh...a midnight Leo...hypo melanistic ( I think that is the term)...unless that Leo is ALL black it isnt a midnight Leo. It may carry the genes to produce one, or may have come from Midnight Leo parents, but if it isnt all black, it sholdn't be called a midnight Leo...

Sorry only example I could think of.
I'd like to hear from the early snow breeders. I just dont want to see this uniques morph lose its....I dont even know a word for it....it's deserving of the snow (white ) label. If we start throwing the term snow at any whiteish Leo then it only seems to hurt the rareity of the true WHITE snow...
Any thoughts?
 
to me that looks like a Mack Pastel there isnt even any white on the leo? so how can you call it a snow? i am pretty sure Mack snows are cut and dry white is snow yellow is not no inbetween A,B,C grade with them
 
Understood :)

They are not pure white (most of them) but the Super Snow is .

Ide rather call them Pastel/Snow (except thats confusing having allready been a "morph") ,Co-Doms ,or Sno-Doms , something to that effect .

But they had allready been coined "Snow" & "Super Snow" , like with Co-Dom Snake traits ( ie: Pastel/Super Pastel Salmon/Super Salmon), they are "Super" or theyre not LOL Its a "Co-Dom" thing mostly im thinking .

Perhaps the first ones stayed more white , i do not know , but from seeing X High Yellow , X Tang, etc it is very possible . Only now some linebred color is being added .

Even my breeder "Co-Dom" is yellow , even having a VERY small amount of orange on the tail , so looks that he may have some Tang influence himself . Now breeding back to Tangs it seems is bringing out even more yellow.
 
Billy , it is how they hatch , not how they mature . Linebred color is being added and eventually both Pastel and Snow will look very much the same . Not when they are young though .

I know those pictures are small , but these are not very yellow , take a look at Lizard Lair Snows from Tangs compared to their others . Her breeder is a Super so those are all Snows . Look at AHR`s , there NOT white ! LOL

This is the same Gecko as in the very top picture at about 10 days old There is only a small amount of yellow that was not there until this time .
 
Maybe then, it is time, as breeders trying to protect a rare morph's name, we un coin the term snow for a yellow leo....I mean yellow is yellow...
I like that snowdom...indicates it carries the mack snow co-dom...
hmmm....pasteldom...nah...snowdom sounds better....but even with that I expect to see white...
Snowdom is catchy....
I'm just one of those it is either white, or it isnt types...line breds are closer to snows then these co-doms are, with some staying white.
 
Ill try posting as many pics as i can of this same gecko at various ages. Its the very top pic ,he`s now over 45 g.
 
I am proud to say that my male Mack Snow has stayed pretty white :)
 

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Dan,
that baby is yellow.
Again not slamming....it is a nice pastel but it is not a white hatchling like Kellis or not even like the freaky ones that I hatched....pure white with not a hint of yellow....and those i wont even label "snow" until a few months have passed.
I mean we call a patternless just that because as an adult it is patternless....not as a baby though
we call a SH because as an adult it has no spotting or bands....but as babies they do
Same here
Just in my opinion....if it is yellow as a baby, it is yellow...if it is white then yellows up, it is still yellow...if it is born white and stay white....BINGO you got a snow
 
Spydergotboost said:
and how Jeanne looking good cant wait to see the babies from him
Click to expand...

You mean "Can't wait to GET babies from him" LOL Wink, Wink!

He hasn't bred yet, hopefully soon.
 
I know , but thats not true for these "Mack" Snows . They have hatched white and turn yellow quickly because of the addition of other bloodlines . This one is so yellow because he is from a super orange SHTCTB w/ 50% CT . LOL

No he does not look like a "Snow" by anyones definition , nor does the $1250 Breeder Male and neither do many of them out there (maybe some of them are white but not all ) But he is a "Mack Co-dom" though . Jeanne`s isnt even white . They all tend to have a light yellow "frost" over white . Therefore look yellow . They are just NOT white . LOL Not why theyre called " Mack Snows" .

I can take a pic in super bright light , or with the flash and wash out the yellow too ,but havent . When my babies were at that size they were pure white also . Flourescent lighting brought out more yellow on them than is visible as well . :cool: There is not one PURE white "Mack Snow" on anyones available page so far . And they were never marketed as being white ,they are a Co-Dom (Het) form of the "Super Snow" that is the only reason they are being called "Snows" IMO Alot of others 12- 30 g. and none of them are even white .

The current picture of him looks alot more yellow than in person . His brother is a YELLOW SHCT and hatched as a "High Yellow" baby , he was pure white and black beside his bro.
 
so here is a pic of a baby i hatched....
and even though this is white....I wont officially label it as a snow until it matures....I am keeping my fingers crossed that it stays white...the other two hatchlings are the same.
Now compare this baby to yours dan...yours is yellow...
A very sweet looking pastel, dont get me wrong....but if I am not going to label these white hatchlings as snows because I dont know if they will yellow, how can you lable your yellow hatchling as snow....when it was yellow to start with?
Jeannes adult I would label as snow...it shows darkening/yellowish tinges but the white is undeniable...your guys the yellow is undeniable and apart from them carrying a snow gene....there is nothing showing on the leo to make anything other then a pastel or yellow...
Now call it a snowdom.....
and as always i am not trying to make any one mad...I just think the term snow is being tossed too easily....

Okay, I cant attach the picture....they were pictured here in another thread....

thread
 
Again i understand you completely about the color

It is a "Snow Co-Dom " then not a "Snow as in linebred. See the difference ? Just because a "mack" is yellow , because most of them are , does not mean its not a "mack" . Thats my only point . You cant call a "Mack Snow"(non super) a "Pastel" because its still a "mack"

They were never sold to be white or stay white . They will all be white at one point and some will yellow more than others but they are still "Mack" . They are all " mack snows" because they hatched black and white with NO COLOR at all and are gene carriers . Thats it .Now we should label all of the yellow ones as Pastels ? Sure ones that hatch yellow are "pastels" . But these hatch as Snows THEN turn yellow . That makes them "pastels" now ?

I dont get it . Theyre not linebred Snows . Those are the ones that are labeled "Pastels"when they are too colored to be "Snows"
 
OK found a good pic . This is obviously a "Mack Snow" . No yellow here until after 10 or 12 days . This is the same "Super Hypo Snow" from the top pic He is still the same Gecko LOL Making him a "mack" , now the Super Hypo is combining and taking over the appearance .Therefor there was alot more yellow at one point . He is now loosing some of this yellow past 45 g.

They change so quickly its unbeleivable .
 
USAGECKOS said:
Does anybody know who started producing the Line Bred Snows? I would love to hear their thoughts on this. Maybe Shelly from the Lizard Lair could shed some light on the subject.

I understand what you are saying Shannon. Maybe we shouldn't have C, B,and A grade Snows, not sure how that all started, maybe Albey can help us there. I will email these people a link to this thread and hopefully they will post.
Click to expand...

OK, sorry, I thought you were questioning the Line Bred Snows. If you want to change the names of the Mack Snows, then you should contact John mack, since he is the creator of them
 
You Ladies are confusing me LOL

Linebreds are "Snows" . And Genetic Snows are "Mack Snows".

There i got it ! :dunce:
 
I know from seeing that hatchling pic , to looking at the big guy its pretty hard to beleive they are the same , and i was the one who raised him . LOL
 
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