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I need help from fellow ball python owners please

J

Jeremcy

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I recently purchased a super pastel Male from a local breeder. I was told his DOB was june 3rd 2013. I bought him on june 31st. I was told he was feeding on live hoppers every 5-7 days. since bringing him home he has not eaten. I house my balls in glass vivariums because i do not agree with rack systems, i keep the temperatures and humidity correct and he has multiple hides on each end of the tank. I know they need time to acclimate before feeding but the problem is he is Extremely skinny. At over a month old he is only 58 grams which seems alarming to me when i know hatchlings weigh more. He has refused my first 3 attempts, live hopper and pinky each terrified him, as well as a f/t fuzzy left overnight all with no success, each attempt 3 days apart. I know i should have waited longer in between but as i said his weight seemed alarming to me and i have never had a problem feeder so my worry got the best of me. I don't know what to do. Am i worrying to soon? He shows no sign of illness or RI other than how skinny he is. He seems very active otherwise and explores his tank but i really want him to start eating and I don't want to assist feed especially if I've already stressed him out. Any and all advice is appreciated- thank you.
 
He sounds like he is stressed from the transition and not yet acclimated. I know you said you don't agree with tubs, but I would suggest trying it if that's what the breeder was using; at least until he is at a healthy weight. They need quite a bit of security and cover at that age. He's not exploring his cage, he may be trying to escape for a more secure place to hide. The extra activity may be assisting in his weight loss.
 
Focal said:
He sounds like he is stressed from the transition and not yet acclimated. I know you said you don't agree with tubs, but I would suggest trying it if that's what the breeder was using; at least until he is at a healthy weight. They need quite a bit of security and cover at that age. He's not exploring his cage, he may be trying to escape for a more secure place to hide. The extra activity may be assisting in his weight loss.
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I would think that changing his surroundings again may stress him out more? I know they need to feel secure i have crumpled newspaper in his tank along with lots of hides and 3/4ths of the sides are covered.But i may try your advice what size tub would you suggest?
 
One last thing - i am not a breeder so i have not owned enough BP's and as i said never had a problem feeder. i know they have a picky eater rep but i would be astounded if he simply let himself starve to death, but is this a possible reality ? Id like to think he will Eventually take prey..
 
I would contact the breeder and find out what he/she was using. If not, I would try a 6qt shoebox on paper towel or newspaper. I have better luck using hides that fit them snugly.
 
Focal said:
I would contact the breeder and find out what he/she was using. If not, I would try a 6qt shoebox on paper towel or newspaper. I have better luck using hides that fit them snugly.
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I will switch him into one asap, i was concerned that since i started him with one set up that it was too late to switch but i have no choice since hes not eating.
 
Give him a few days of privacy after switching him too. I leave the rodent on the opposite side of the cage and leave it in overnight. He will find it if he wants it.

I just double checked the DOB and I think you are still within a safe window, especially if he has already had meals. Some of my hatchlings won't eat until nearly six weeks after emerging. Sometimes longer.
 
Focal said:
Give him a few days of privacy after switching him too. I leave the rodent on the opposite side of the cage and leave it in overnight. He will find it if he wants it.

I just double checked the DOB and I think you are still within a safe window, especially if he has already had meals. Some of my hatchlings won't eat until nearly six weeks after emerging. Sometimes longer.
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The rodent you leave over night is this live ft or fresh killed? I dont know this breeder well so while i have no reason to doubt him theres always the possibility he has never taken food either, he was listed for sale as 'clearence' I appreciate your help and quick responses.
 
No problem. If he is in need of food, I would try live and a rodent small enough not to cause harm to the snake.
 
I have switched him to a small tub with a hide and water bowl. It still seems like he is trying awfuly hard to escape and is not comfortable even though the tub is very small. I have the sides covered as well.
 
I tried offering a fuzzy tonight, left in his tub and i covered it, still no luck. For an almost 8 week old BP who has not eaten for the last 4 when should i consider assist/force feeding? He is 57 grams and his spine is visible.
 
That sounds pretty thin & tiny. I haven't been a ball python owner for many years & doubt there is a exact time frame standard when a snake should be force fed. I think it would have to dependent on each snake individually. I do believe force feeding should be only acceptable as a last resort due to health risks so while your waiting for an answer from someone more experienced then myself with the species I suggest a few things to consider or "tricks" to try.

-Are you feeding him in his own enclosure?
-Are the temps & humidity correct in the enclosure?
-Are you providing privacy or is the snake stressed at all?
-Are you sure there are no parasites & the snake isn't Dehydrated.
-Have you given the snake a good soak, when did he last shed?
-Have you tried multiple different prey items, size, alive & F/T?
-Have you tried feeding at different times of day & night?
-Have you tried braining the prey or scenting it, light coat of chicken broth, etc?
-Have you contacted the seller to ask about any success or feeding logs he may of had?
 
Durante said:
That sounds pretty thin & tiny. I haven't been a ball python owner for many years & doubt there is a exact time frame standard when a snake should be force fed. I think it would have to dependent on each snake individually. I do believe force feeding should be only acceptable as a last resort due to health risks so while your waiting for an answer from someone more experienced then myself with the species I suggest a few things to consider or "tricks" to try.

-Are you feeding him in his own enclosure?
-Are the temps & humidity correct in the enclosure?
-Are you providing privacy or is the snake stressed at all?
-Are you sure there are no parasites & the snake isn't Dehydrated.
-Have you given the snake a good soak, when did he last shed?
-Have you tried multiple different prey items, size, alive & F/T?
-Have you tried feeding at different times of day & night?
-Have you tried braining the prey or scenting it, light coat of chicken broth, etc?
-Have you contacted the seller to ask about any success or feeding logs he may of had?
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I offer him food in the 15 qt tub that i keep him in. The temps and humidity are correct (90/60). I have his tub covered with a mesh sheet that allows air flow but privacy. I am not aware of signs of parasites but i leave him plenty of water and mist him so i do not think dehydration is the problem. I have had him since June 30th he was born on the 3rd, he has not shed with me. I have tried frozen and live fuzzies left over night as well as live and frozen pinkies and a live hopper over the last 3 weeks all with no result. The seller told me he ate on the thursday of the week i bought him which would have been june 27th. However based on the snakes feeding habbits it would not be suprising if this snake has not been established. He is 56 grams as of this morning and i still have a pet fuzzy. I will post photos later today when im off work. I am at a loss for what i should do. I do not want to watch this snake starve itself to death.
 
I don't know how BP breeder's do it but i know a lot of boa folks wait wait to attempt the 1st feeding until after the 1st, either way being sold 27 days after birth doesn't seem like enough time have a few meals under his belt let alone by considered established. I'd try scenting or braining. What do you use as substrate & does he have a hide in that tub? I heard of bagging them with the prey too but hopefully a few other BP keepers will jump on & have some better stuff for you then I do. Definitely throw up some photos when you can like Helen mentioned too. I have my fingers crossed for you & the little guy.
 
Durante said:
I don't know how BP breeder's do it but i know a lot of boa folks wait wait to attempt the 1st feeding until after the 1st, either way being sold 27 days after birth doesn't seem like enough time have a few meals under his belt let alone by considered established. I'd try scenting or braining. What do you use as substrate & does he have a hide in that tub? I heard of bagging them with the prey too but hopefully a few other BP keepers will jump on & have some better stuff for you then I do. Definitely throw up some photos when you can like Helen mentioned too. I have my fingers crossed for you & the little guy.
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My worry is that he may have never even eaten his first meal yet and here we are almost 8 weeks later losing weight. Most babies come straight out of the egg weighing more than he does right now. When i offered a f/t pinky i did slice the back of the neck a little to expose blood but he still took no interest. I also tried bagging him but the problem is he spent the entire time freaking out and trying to escape the bag. At this point i have almost accepted that he isnt going to eat and the question becomes do i keep waiting and offering or try to force, i know this is a last resort but to be quite honest i have tried every trick so far.. he is a beautiful super pastel, the prettiest snake ive owned and i would be devestated if i lost him. i do sincerely appreciate you keeping your fingers crossed and your help so far.
 
I have babies that hatched smaller than him so the size doesn't worry me too much at this point. 15qt may be a bit big, might be worth considering something even smaller.

I tried something someone suggested to me for my smaller babies that weren't eating. Take a brown paper sandwich bag and put the snake and live fuzzy/hopper (just before eyes completely open) in with overnight. Doesn't usually take overnight, but my noneaters ate great.
 
Ophion said:
I have babies that hatched smaller than him so the size doesn't worry me too much at this point. 15qt may be a bit big, might be worth considering something even smaller.

I tried something someone suggested to me for my smaller babies that weren't eating. Take a brown paper sandwich bag and put the snake and live fuzzy/hopper (just before eyes completely open) in with overnight. Doesn't usually take overnight, but my noneaters ate great.
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I am not comfortable with anything smaller than 15 qt. I am not a breeder and my other adult snakes are kept in terrariums ive never been a tub/rack person. How would i monitor humidity and heating in a single 6 qt tub not attached to a rack heating system/thermostat? Also i stated earlier i tried leaving him in a bag with one but he spent more time focusing on trying to escape the bag then the prey inside. Just last night with 12 hours of complete dark and silence i left a fuzzy in his tub and he still did not eat it.
 
I did not see where you tried the bag. I would try again - put some holes and close the bag. Of course he wants to find his way out. The mouse is annoying and that is the point - irritating to the point he eats. Thats likely why 12 hours with the live one made no difference - they were separated most of that time in that space. made the difference for some of my noneaters (who were 40g hatchlings) Sometimes it isn't wait until he wants it - that day doesn't always happen. You don't want to stress him but you may have to get him a bit aggravated. I do think every 3 days is too often, give him 5. He may be thin but it makes no difference if all those attempts are doing nothing anyway.

You may not like anything smaller but it's what he may need. I wouldn't change much at this point, but remember breeders don't always do things because of space or money but do it because it works for the animals. Ball pythons don't need or want space. It is no harder to heat a 6qt than it is a 15qt. Small heat pad and thermostat - any heat should be on a thermostat anyway.
 
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