Ian at Select Reps... My BAD experience.

[GotBoids18]

On 4/14 Ian contacted me in response to an ad I had placed on kingsnake when I was desperatly seeking out a hypo female that would be breedable this year. The price seemed high, but availability was low, so I made payment arrangements. There was a problem with my paypal account during one of the payments, and the account was frozen while it was sorted out, but that was resolved, and another payment was sent. I had to email Ian to make sure he was getting the payments, and that is when things got SHADY. Ian replied that the 7.5 lb Virgin Hypo that I started payments on only 2 weeks prior to, was possibly gravid(meaning that he thought that the snake he KNEW wasn't gravid, probably was gravid from the breeding he said occured in January).and due in less than a month. He could not sell her until he got an ultrasound to make sure she wasn't gravid. I asked for a refund on what I had paid, he quickly refunded, and I had to start at square one with more ads of desperation. Ian then replied to the next ad I placed saying that she might not be gravid, and told me to wait until Tuesday so he can take her to Chris Burke for an ultrasound. For whatever reason, I really wanted THAT hypo more than any of the others I had gotten replies for, and we started working on the deal again. He provided more info, and lowered the price.
While doing a search, a buddy of mine found 2 posts on Clay English's forum with the snake Ian had. The posts were made by Loco Lizards in march. The next info I'm giving is speculation, but the shoe seems to fit... Aparently Ian had purchased the snake in hopes that Loco Lizard's problem with her breeding were just bad luck, and that she would actually drop a litter for him.
He then contacted me to set up a fall guy in case she ws not gravid, but waited til I sent payment to get an ultrasound. The price I was to pay was 1300 more than he paid for her only a month and a half earlier, if that, in hopes that she would still drop a litter.He was all set up...win, win..Shes gravid he gets a litter of DH sunglow, shes not gravid, he has someone paying him 1300 dollars for holding a snake for a month. Like I said, I was willing to pay this price, but this animal has a history of not producing, and is obviously not a virgin. The animal was sold because for the past 2 seasons she was bred and either did not ovulate, or had some kind of false pregnancy. I will post all of the emails in the next post here, along with links to the threads from the previous owner which lead me to my decision NOT TO BUY FROM IAN.

 

[DaveyFig]

Although I was not directly involved in the deal with Ian, I am a partner in the future breeding that was to take place using the animal from Ian and have been kept up to date as the deal progressed.Joe paid for my subscription here so that I may assist in posting the information he has.
Below are the emails that I have recieved(forwarded by Joe) to help him color code them (Joe is Blue,Ian is Red)and get them on the BOI. I may have left some out(unintentionally) as I see some gaps in the emails. As I dig through them more, I will add any that are missing, but I wanted to get the main bulk of them up to get the ball rolling.I know they talked several times on the phone, and unfortunatley I don't have those conversations available to post .I will also add the links to the posts mades made by Mark of loco lizards to the bottom of this post.




4/14
I have a 25 lb 7.5 Ft Virgin...

Probable super, still Orange and Pink, no black.

Bred to an albino in January but didn't ovulate.

508-889-5291

I have pictures

Thanx, Ian www.ImageEvent.com/SelectReps

you can view her in the salmon section

Is there anyone interested in her??? I just sold a bunch of animals and I'm just waiting for the money to come in... I'll have the full amount within 2 weeks or so, is there a small amount I can put down on her, so she doesn't go anywhere?? I'm not pulling your chain, I will NOT back out on the deal, I've got a few decent references available if you like... Thanks for your time, it's much appreciated... Joe Lydon
4/15
You let me know what the smallest down payment is that you're comfortable with, and I'll paypal you the money...And also, I'm using her to breed into a new codominant hyperxanthic line, trying to fuse the two together and see what happens.. Do you think there's any chance the albino of yours could have copulated with her, and she may be retaining sperm?? I know a possible litter of all DH sunglows would be great, but I'm trying to use her for a specific project and I'd hate to be set back on it, if she was gravid with het albinos.... It seems crazy to not WANT a litter of DH sunglows, but I've really got my heart set on the hyperxanthic/hypomelanistic offspring. Let me know what you think about that, drop me your email address and let me know what you'd like for a down payment....
Thanks for your time,
Joe Lydon

4/16

Hey, how's it going?? I'm still interested in the hypo, I'm not sure if you received my last email.. How does $500.00 as a down payment to hold her sound?? Just drop me your paypal address and I'll send it.. Also, if you could also tell me what you think about the whole idea of her possibly retaining sperm from the albino, that would be great if you could give me your thoughts on that.... Thanks for your time, I'm hoping to hear from you soon...
Joe Lydon
4/17

Hey Ian, what's goin on?? I'm just waitin on you to let me know your paypal address.. I can leave an $850.00 deposit today as soon as I get word from you.. Let me know... Thanks
hey there,

I just got back from a show this weekend.

My paypal address is: [email protected]

I don't think she retained sperm at all. Her breeding was back in early
January and she shows no signs thus far of anything. The male was probably
a dud or didn't catch her at the right time. They weren't locked for long
either. Only a weekend.

She fed on three large rats the other day. Frozen thawed, just rested them
on her coil and she mouthed them down. She's a big baby. Afraid of
anything moving.

Call me if need be next time. 508-889-5291

I'm too busy for e-mails.

Thank you, Joe

Ian

4/18Yeah, the paypal thing... Tom Stokes of Stoked Serpents dropped by yesterday morning and picked up 10 hypos in person... I let him use my computer to paypal me the money... About an hour later, I paypal'd you money... I came home later that night to see if everything went well and it said Paypal put a hold on Tom's payment.. I FREAKED OUT.... I thought Tom stiffed me... I called paypal and they couldn't tell me anything about the investigation... And then it dawned on me... Tom paypal'd money into my account using my computer, with my IP address... An hour later, I used the money to paypal you.. I think they might have a suspicion I illegally used Tom's account... It should clear up in a few days... Man, it really scared the hell outta me... thanks
4/27
Hey Ian, I was wondering if you recieved the
payments I
sent you, I haven't heard from you in a while... I don't wanna continue
sending money, if she's been sold... Thanks in advance. They paypal
payments
were sent from [email protected]

4/28

There you are,

Yes i did reply, I told you that she was more than likely gravid and that i
couldn't move her until she gets ultrasounded at the vets. If she is prego I
will not be able to ship her until she drops. She looks like she will drop
within a month, she is going through a shed right now.

The other thing,

What amount total has been sent through paypal?

I had 850 removed from the account and then two more payments of 600 added
on the 24th and 27th.

The last thing, what was our final price discussed? I assume it was 4000
shipped, I was asking 4500.

Please give me a call or please leave me your number so we can talk.

Thank you, Ian 508-889-5291

The LAST email I have recieved from you was pertaining to the 850 that was on hold, because the 2nd to last email I sent before this one was explaining the problem with paypal.. You replied saying the money was being held, and we'll see what happens. I have never recieved an email saying she was possibly gravid... If I would have known that, I would have never sent any more money... In your first email to me, in response to my ad, you said you had a 7.5', 25lb probable dom female for 4k shipped, and a link to your photo album... I sent 850, that was put on hold because of a security issue, the hold was removed and the 850 went through.. Later on that day, I sent another 600... My balance SHOULD have been 2550, after sending 1450.00.. I guess there has been major communication problems, just send 1450.00 back into my paypal account... Again, I have never recieved an email from you saying she couldn't be moved because she was possibly gravid... Thanks for your time.. There is no possible way for me to use her. The paypal address to refund the money to is [email protected] 1450.00

4/28

I have every email that was sent between us... I have the emails where I stressed the possibility that she may be retaining albino sperm, you reassured me that it was very unlikely... I made a point saying I need a hypo female that was breedable NOW... She is not the case, I can't wait, I have another female lined up, just in case the deal between you and I fell through and I have to go with it... So the only thing left between you and I is the refund situation... I already put the request in with paypal, the only thing you need to do is confirm and give the refund.. Simple as that... Thanks for your time..


Ian then refunded the money, and another ad was place.Ian contacted joe letting him know that she was back up for grabs.
5/1
Hey there,

I thought you found one? Anyways, as I had explained. I was only assuming she was gravid by her size and what not. I am going to get her ultra-sounded this week and will know for sure. If you want this monster I will release her if she is clean.

I appreciated the efforts with the deposit and I always make smooth transactions but this case is a little different seeing how you need a breedable this spring and how she locked up in January. I will have new pics of her this week as well. She is coming out of shed probably tomorrow. She's still Orange in deep shed. Truly one of a kind at this size.
Let me know VIA TELEPHONE, not e-mail if you still are interested.

Thank you, Ian 508-889-5291

5/3
Hey Ian, I was wondering if there was anything you could do on the price??? I'd offer you a 1.1 pair out of the ONLY group of Davey Pastel/ Hypos... The term pastel is only being used at the moment, to not piss any "Big guys" off... In definition, and in my opinion, the trait should be called Hyperxanthic... The trait is being passed through an adult LTC, 7' male... There have been 2 litters and each year it has worked co dom when bred to average, normal females.... The babies start out normal looking but with solid, clean, white bellies.. After a year or so, the animals start to develop an overall yellow hue that deepens with age... The adult male is the cleanest, lightest adult boa I've ever seen.. He seems to be passing lateral stripes also, because about 1/2 of the litters carry a varied degree, some normals and some DP's... This will be the first morph DP's are mixed with and I believe there will be nothing like them... A dominate form should take place within 2 yrs.. Davey and I may release 2.2 out of this litter and the rest will be held back... I know we're little guys, but this is going to be a huge project... When you look at these boas, realize they haven't been line bred and 1/2 litters will be produced when bred to normals.. This is a new morph, and it's just starting out.... If you were interested, I'd give you a 1.1 pair of DP/Hypos, out of my half of the litter.... The other pair we release will sell for the best offer, which IMO, will be very high... You can check most forums for "Davey Pastel/s" and see tons of words about them... Linda Hedgpeth has an 04' female that she is going to work into her T+ albinos.... I'm not talking a huge price break on your end, just something noticeable... Also, if you hook us up, I'll give you first dibs on a 1.1 pair of dominate hyperxanthics, which should be speckless, totally washed out, and possibly full lateral striping.... There won't be any of these released out of the first litter, but I'd sell to you, if you were interested.... Thanks for your time, I just thought I'd ask... Don't feel bad about saying "No thanks"..... Whatever contracts you'd like to make up, would be fine with me.... Cya

Here are some pix of my 03' pair of Davey Pastel aka Hyperxanthics

Here's the male when I first got him.....
GotBoids18 - photobucket.com

Here's some misc pics of the male, female, and the non genetic brother....
GotBoids18 - photobucket.com

Here's the female with my harlequin male, it's the first bunch of pictures... GotBoids18 - photobucket.com

Here's the male right now.... Starts in 2nd row, (outside pix)...
Gotboids29 - photobucket.com

And here's a bunch more misc pix...
Gotboids29 - photobucket.com

This line is amazing and it will create some very cool designer morphs in the future...

THERE NICE,

I'm not looking for trade but I can help you out on the price alittle. I
don't have much room but I can split what i do have.

$3800 Shipping included in the price via Delta.

I wish I could do more but I bought her as she is. If i raised her I could
do a hell of alot better.

I did the ten point inspection. She NOT Gravid. Seems like i got over
excited when i thought she was gravid, forgetting about her two jumbo rats
from the week prior and then WOOSH, she dropped the Bomb from Hell, looked
like she sawed a log.

I stectched her, did a major belly feel, and let her recoil. Its her
favorite position i guess, and when she does, she looks prego.

I'm sorry for hitting the panic button on you.

I will get pics of her tonight. My damn camera at the last bit of battery
on me when I was ready to take them last night.

Here for now are the photos you received prior.

She looks ten times better in person.

Call me later,

Thanx, Ian 508-889-5291
5/5
Hey there,

Call me if you want her because I am posting her on Kingsnake and I don't
think she will last a day.

Thanx, Ian 508-889-5291
5/5


I think I'll pass, I'm sorry... She's beautiful, and like you said, she won't last a day.... Thanks
5/7

I like the idea of you selling me a female that IMO is overpriced, but yes, she is beautiful, But she won't even produce babies... That is VERY bad on your part... I'm very disappointed with this... Mark tried 2yrs in a row and failed, he let her go to you, and you tried to sell her to me... Thanks a lot for your honesty and her HISTORY... You told me there was NEVER a problem with her.... I will NEVER do business with you and I will tell EVERYONE I know to make sure they don't do business with you.... You seemed to have a somewhat respectable name, and I can't believe you would do something like this.... Have a nice day.. Joe Lydon


I have not a clue what you are talking about.

Mark sold the animal to me as a one time breeder female that didn't take.
What does her breeding history have to do with me.? If anyone
misreopresented the sale it was him. I only can go by what I was told. Why
would I buy a Boa that wouldn't produce two years in a row.. Do you know
how big I am in the resale business?. I wouldn't jeoparadize my name or rep
over a freakin Salmon Boa.

I'm not the animal or the breeder, I am a reseller of high end quality
animals with all the backing in the business,.

If she didn't produce this past season it has nothing to do with me,. I
have not misrepresented the animal in any way. No one can say whether an
animal will breed, produce or anything for that matter.

If you ever need a favor, I will take this letter from you with a grain of
salt, and do the absolute best I can to help you
Sorry about your dilema, BUT. If you want the highest quality, healthy,
feeding prolific machines, whether it be Boas or Pythons, give me a call.
Everyone already knows that.

I am not that happy with Mark right now for misrepresenting her status.

Believe me, I have nothing to gain by making someone dissatisfied,.

Have a good weekend


Links for RTB threads about that animal showing dates , and other info...

http://www.redtailboas.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19462
http://www.redtailboas.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19769&page=2&pp=10

 

[DaveyFig]

This originally started as a response to an ad with the title "WANTED/REALLY NEEDED. BREEDABLE FEMALE "
At what point was shee breedable?
On 4/14 she was a "virgin" that was with a male in January, but was without a doubt not gravid, as stated by Ian.
2 weeks later, she is more than likely gravid, and due in less than a month, and would be sold only if she was not gravid, or after she had her babies.
A boa that drops now is not ready to breed now, or even this coming season.
A boa that is gravid now isn't ready to breed now.
An animal that for 2 years in a row has gone through the motions and fooled 2 different people into thinking she is gravid should not be sold as breedable now, nor should she be attempted to be sold as a 7.5 ft virgin.
Ian points the finger at Loco Lizards on this one, so I have emailed Mark a link to this thread. Hopefully he can shed some light.

 

[GotBoids18]

Here's a screen shot to the KS ad he is currently running on her....

 

[Greg Riso]

My Dealings With Ian

To Joe and Davey, I'm very sorry the deal between you and Ian didn't work out. I've dealt with Ian several times now and have never had a problem dealing with him. In fact, he had an animal I was interested in at the Manchester, NH show three weeks ago that he let me take home with no money down. I think that was very trusting of him to do so and I doubt a bad guy would ever dream of doing such a thing. Joe, as you're aware I asked Ian at that same show if he happened to have any adult female hypos available because I knew you were looking for one and I wanted to help you guys find one for your project. When I mentioned the name Joe Lydon to Ian he seemed to recognize it because he said he may have just responded to your wanted ad post. I had hoped the two of you would connect because on the surface the animal certainly appeared to be everything you were looking for. Everything except the history that you've brought up that is. There are many good points you've made regarding the animal being a "virgin" with her history. If a woman sleeps around with several different men but doesn't get pregnant I'd hardly call her a virgin. If someone claims an animal to be a virgin then it should be just that.
A history of not becoming gravid or even having courted a male should have been disclosed and I am a bit disappointed Ian did not initially do so. Little by little it seems the truth came out when Ian said he didn't wish to sell her due to the fact she may be gravid and so forth. I don't see how the animal could be portrayed as being virgin and then possibly gravid. If the animal has been with males each year and not produced was Ian aware of this?
Because of the fact I know both Ian and you Joe, I feel like I'mm caught in the middle but would like the truth to surface. I think Ian should give his side of the story before judgement is passed. What say you Ian?

 

[DaveyFig]

Greg, Joe and I both apreciate the effort you put into assisting us in finding the right girl for our project. I really thought that this was the one. Given the past threads on Select reps, we figured we couldn't go wrong. However, too many things didn't fit. Even if Mark did represent the animal to Ian, Ian is the one who was positive that she did not take, and was not gravid when he accepted the deposit. Ian is the one who decided 2 weeks later that she still may be gravid and due in less than a month, and would not sell her til he got an ultrasound done.
Ian is now passing the blame for not mentioning a history of bad, or false pregnancies onto Mark, who also hasn't responded. I think all that Joe and I have to say has been said, and It is up for Mark and Ian to share their sides. I would hate to see reputations ruined over something like this, but Ian is the one who dropped Marks name in the email,leading people to believe that Mark is a bad guy.
I hope to hear from both Mark and Ian on this thread.
Nothing can be done to really fix this transaction. Info was not found until after the decision was made not to buy her, and a refund had already be made for the money sent to Ian. If this were a simple "Bad guy thread" Refunds could be made, and all the little side things worked out. It is a lot harder to fix a "shady would be deal" than a"bad transaction".
The only thing that could help here would be posts by Ian, and Mark, to get to the bottom of this strange ordeal.

 

[DaveyFig]

typo

Even if Mark did represent the animal to Ian, Ian is the one who was positive that she did not take, and was not gravid when he accepted the deposit.

Represent should have been misrepresent*

 

[king brown]

I just recently bought a male hypo from Ian and can say the transaction was perfect I received him packed professionally he was delivered on the day and times as agreed. Ian had even set up a payment plan! Ian is an honest seller in my opinion and a good guy as stated before all the accusation against Ian are just speculation and I don’t think you should try and ruin a persons reputation on mere speculation.

 

[Jim O]

Mario,

I'm not sure I would call representing an animal as a "virgin" when it had been bred and was possibly gravid "mere speculation".

Let's hear what Ian has to say. Has he been informed of this thread?

 

[GotBoids18]

Ian is an honest seller in my opinion and a good guy as stated before all the accusation against Ian are just speculation and I don’t think you should try and ruin a persons reputation on mere speculation.

How are all of the facts I've provided speculation??? If you read my first post, you can see a little before the end where I say "This is SPECULATION....yada yada"... I said that, to seperate my opinion from fact. Everything before and after that was FACT... I can base a STRONG opinion on a large number of solid FACTS... What his intentions were, are irrelevant (as far as him trying to set himself up for a "win win" situation) at this point.. She was highly misrepresented by someone... It's not for me to decide who that person is.... I haven't lied or stretched ANY truth... It's just sad that I almost spent 4k on an animal, only find out that the project I'm so desperately trying to work on would most likely have been a bust...

 

[GotBoids18]

And yes, Ian knows of the thread.. He's been viewing it on and off, all day, but he hasn't said a word... Mark from Loco Lizards has also be contacted, and there hasn't been a response from him either.... Although, Mark said he was dissapointed with Ian in a PM with one of my friends, he needs to make his statement public, which he said he was going to do...

 

[gmherps]

I don't know what the hell is going on here, but my experiences with Ian have been TOP-NOTCH!! I've some HIGH end snakes from him and was not disappointed in any way at all. Ian doesn't deserve to get a bad guy thread started on him in my opinion.

 

[DaveyFig]

I don't know what the hell is going on here, but my experiences with Ian have been TOP-NOTCH!! I've some HIGH end snakes from him and was not disappointed in any way at all. Ian doesn't deserve to get a bad guy thread started on him in my opinion.

Right, your experience was good, so in your opinion , Ian is good.Yipee!
However Joe's experience was not good, in his opinion, nor in mine, and it deserves a warning thread in the very least.
THAT is what is good about the BOI. You don't have to base decisions on one persons perspectives.
Did Ian go above and beyond the call of duty in your cases? What was so special about your experience that you feel the need to post it here?
Good packaging? Good communication? Good all around experience? Good animals that weren't properly represented? Well guess what...That doesn't really deserve a horn blowing celebration. That is basic business. Nothing extraordinary. You got what you paid for, all of the things listed above from the animal , to the way it is shipped is part of a NORMAL transaction.
Can Ian come on here and say you were a good buyer because you gave him money in return for what he gave you? YOU BET! will he? Probably not. You know why? Thats what business dictates, that is the standard.
Joe's potential transaction, from Ians side was sub par, and does deserve to be mentioned here, as it may save someone a headache later.
I am glad your deals went through well, but that is how it is supposed to go, and is not a defense for this poorly handled situation.

 

[GotBoids18]

I shouldn't even have said anything, Ian is a "Big Guy", I'm a "Little Guy", Ian has friends, I don't.... Ian could leave a confession, and you people would say "It's ok Ian, at least you said you were sorry"... I guess the fact that he was trying to get away with something doesn't matter... If I have a friend that messes up, I don't stand by their side, I let them take full responsibilities for their actions... Just because you are a friend, doesn't mean you're right.. Great stuff.. Thanks for the support...

 

[king brown]

I just read the post again to see if I missed something but the first e-mail he sent you said the boa had been with an albino male in January but she did not ovulate. Now to me if some one tells me she’s been with a male I know theirs always a chance of sperm retention or maybe the ovulation was missed it seems you were fine with this because you made mention of this several times during your e-mail saying (Do you think there's any chance the albino of yours could have copulated with her, and she may be retaining sperm?? I know a possible litter of all DH sunglows would be great, but I'm trying to use her for a specific project and I'd hate to be set back on it, if she was gravid with het albinos.... It seems crazy to not WANT a litter of DH sunglows, but I've really got my heart set on the hyperxanthic/hypomelanistic offspring) knowing this you still made a down payment the next day for $500?? It just seems to me you got cold feet after your buddy found out some information on clays web site and after you canceled the deal Ian as you put it quickly refunded your money. Looks to me Ian didn’t do anything wrong. Concerning the hypo female you don’t have any idea of what happened during the two breeding seasons. It could have been temperature variation the male may not have gotten the job done and a whole list of other things that might have gone wrong the female. Hey for all we know she might be an excellent breeder. So it seems your just upset and trying to take it out on Ian by trying to ruin his reputation!

 

[Wilomn]

The Fig, ie Davey Giltner, is right.

Let's see what Ian has to say.

Time to talk Ian.

 

[GotBoids18]

King Brown, I never sent a payment until I was reassured by Ian that she was NOT gravid, he specifically stated the albino was only with her for a WEEKEND, TWO DAYS... And she was VERY unlikely to be holding sperm... I've only bred ONCE, which is why I asked IAN'S opinion on her... He told me she would breed NOW, AFTER that, I sent the money... And the first payment was actually 850, you're reading the 500 payment, which was only a suggestion to Ian....

 

[GotBoids18]

Oh, and for the record.. Finding out about this little scandle had NOTHING to do with me backing down on the deal, I just found out this morning that she was bred last year and failed, I put 2 and 2 together and realized that the same thing happened this year... And a can of worms was opened... What if I was to have bought this female??? Would have most likely been a waste of money and TIME....

 

[DaveyFig]

King Brown, your highness, you are correct. Although there was a chance of sperm retention (very little chance since copulation usually occurs after weeks of courting, and the albino was in with her for "a couple days in January"), the deal was still a go on Joe's end, because it was still a go on Ians end. I had no concern about sperm retention, since the we Joe was assure that the animal was not gravid.
Initially Ian was ready to go through with the deal, took deposits, and was just waiting to be payed off before shipping. 2 weeks later the deal is off , pending an ultrasound...hmmm. He was keeping the snake that was half payed for, thinking she was gravid, and due in a month, but only 2 weeks prior would have shipped if Joe gave him 4k right then.
Here is what I think happened.Ian bought the snake from Loco Lizards when Mark finally gave up on the chance of her being gravid. Less than a month later Ian decided to sell her having given up himself. He charged over 1000 more than he paid thinking "Well, my gamble with a possily gravid animal didn't work, but oh well, I am making up for it now". Jpe send money, Ian sees a lump, DEAL IS OFF until he finds out if that gamble is gonna pay off. To me, thats shady.The animal was half paid for. He might as well have sold it to someone else while holding a deposit for a whopping 2 weeks, keeping it is no different.

 

[DaveyFig]

I had no concern about sperm retention, since the we Joe was assure that the animal was not gravid.

I was trying to say since we were assured, since I was part of the deal, from the outside, but since I had no contact with Ian decided to change it to Joe was assured...sorry about the tripping up. Should read:
I had no concern about sperm retention since Joe was assured that the animal was not gravid.