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Bad Guy Ian Curtis - Stolen African House Snakes

MDC_Ophiuchus said:
For what it is worth, if it were me, at this point, I would start posting "Stolen Snake" ads everywhere, including KY Craigslists, with attached photos of that female patternless albino and links to this thread. If nothing else, it would make it difficult for him to dump them.
Click to expand...

I would be suprised if he didn't dump them already. Thus the childish smoke and mirror games. Hope I'm wrong. I'd like to see the Op get her snakes back. Man up Ian. You can only pull the wool over a tiny fraction of this crew's eyes.
 
Pictures, no doubt, say a lot. These are screen shots taken from my FB account. Note that Michael Crabtree is tagged in some and even comments on a couple of them.

Autumn and Scarlet are my adult females.

The two high red offspring came from Scarlet.

The clutch freshly hatching is from Autumn. Note the dates, too.

I also may point out that I house my collection on white paper towels. Easy to clean, easy to spot issues, such as mites. I have been advocating using white paper towels as substrate for years because of this.









 
Chris Kennard said:
I would be suprised if he didn't dump them already. Thus the childish smoke and mirror games. Hope I'm wrong. I'd like to see the Op get her snakes back. Man up Ian. You can only pull the wool over a tiny fraction of this crew's eyes.
Click to expand...

The evasive and sometimes arguably aggressive behaviors displayed thus far lead me to a point of suspicion of him either managing to have killed these somehow or sold them. A shame either way, if so. If either is the case, he should simply come clean and do what he can to make restitution to/with the owner. My expectations for this to occur do not exist.
 
According to Phil, they are appointing them, so no elections. And they deleted my post!
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EGADS! I read that post...don't suppose anybody has a screen cap of it to post here? I don't remember it being out of line.

No elections, deletions of posts by those in 'power'...sounds shady to me. Maybe they should change themselves from a 'society' to a 'clique'.

John and Ron seem like really good guys. I already don't trust the rest of 'em.
 
I contacted Ian in an effort to persuade him to at least contact Sarah and resolve the issue. Ian was very combative, dismissive and insulting with his responses. I'm not going to post the majority of our conversation due to profanity, but one thing that is apparent is that Ian cannot keep his stories straight. Sarah has maintained that Nobody was present when she handed the snakes over to Ian.....Ian says otherwise. So far, Ian has claimed that at least three people were present/eye witnesses at the transaction. One of those people was a fellow named Chris Barmore, who is going to be appointed the President/VP of the KHS soon along with Ian (I'm not sure who will hold which position, but it seems like Chris would be president based on how he speaks)....I've been friendly with Chris before, so I sent him a message on FB inquiring about Ian's claims that he was there. As you can see, even Ian's buddies are not corroborating his lies.







Also, after talking to Chris about the situation in detail over the last couple days, it has been made increasingly clear that Ian's actions outside of the KHS are of no concern to the other officers. Basically, they don't care what he does as long as he doesn't screw *them* over. Condoning such behavior is an unfortunate way to approach such a situation IMO, and will likely lead to a sour taste left in peoples' mouths.
 
No, I have not heard from Ian.

Yes, it is true that Chris is being appointed as president and I was dismayed to discover that Ian will be VP.

I have no real quarrel with Chris. I even found a conversation I had with Chris about Ian taking my snakes on breeder loan. He was aware of the situation as a breeder loan back when it occurred.

His attempts to mediate this situation between me and Ian have been a struggle, mostly due to Ian's lies. First he told Chris Barmore that I only gave him a pair of AHS, and they wouldn't be ready to breed for 4 months. He wanted $250 for the food/care that was given to them. When I explained to Chris that this was impossible--because two of the snakes I loaned Ian were PROVEN breeders--he contacted Ian again. Ian still insisted that two of the snakes were his. (Might I point out that in the initial conversation between Ian and I, his one and only decent, brief response mentions more than 2 snakes?) After a few more questions relayed through Chris, Ian dropped his price to $100 for two snakes. I said no. I wanted ALL FOUR of my snakes back.

Chris tried to arrange a meeting in person for us to discuss this. He was even willing to bring in an attorney friend of his to help mediate. I was willing to meet with Ian, but not without proof that my snakes were in his possession. Otherwise, what the hell was the point? But when Chris explained that I wanted proof that all four of my snakes were still in his possession, Ian's cooperation ended.

Chris has never seen Ian's collection. He requested pictures of my snakes, but Ian was again, not cooperative.

I tried to express my concern that Ian's behavior in this transaction was a glaring red flag. Just because some one has supposedly done good things for the KHS, their behavior outside the society does account for something. As John R stated, as VP he will be a direct representative of the KHS. And so far, the example he has been setting here has been nothing short of disgusting to me and other members of the herp community.

Chris did his best to assist me in arranging a meeting with Ian and trying to be a mediator between us, because Ian still has me blocked and is avoiding any other attempts to contact him. Ian was no more cooperative with Chris than he was with me.

He has not made an appearance here, and I am very disappointed to see that the post was removed from the KHS boards.

My argument is not with the KHS, as I have stated before. I have known Chris for years and I find that he seems torn between protecting the KHS and helping a friend. As he stated, there is only so much he can do, and Ian is his own man.

I am disgusted by Ian's behavior throughout this entire ordeal. He has proven himself to be nothing more than a liar and a thief. He is the last person I would wish to see as the VP of any organization, least of all the herpetological society. Members if the KHS, I ask YOU: is this the sort of person you wish to represent you??? I this the kind of behavior respectable of a VP??? If he is in the right, why will he not defend himself???

I appreciate your sympathy and efforts to help. At this point, I think all hope of seeing my snakes again is out the window.
 
I even found a conversation I had with Chris about Ian taking my snakes on breeder loan.
Click to expand...

For the sake of being complete with your record as people read it, I would urge you to post that conversation here as an attachment.
 
Just seeking clarification.

DavidBeard said:
I contacted Ian in an effort to persuade him to at least contact Sarah and resolve the issue. Ian was very combative, dismissive and insulting with his responses. I'm not going to post the majority of our conversation due to profanity, but one thing that is apparent is that Ian cannot keep his stories straight. Sarah has maintained that Nobody was present when she handed the snakes over to Ian.....Ian says otherwise. So far, Ian has claimed that at least three people were present/eye witnesses at the transaction. One of those people was a fellow named Chris Barmore, who is going to be appointed the President/VP of the KHS soon along with Ian (I'm not sure who will hold which position, but it seems like Chris would be president based on how he speaks)....I've been friendly with Chris before, so I sent him a message on FB inquiring about Ian's claims that he was there. As you can see, even Ian's buddies are not corroborating his lies.
Click to expand...

David, Did Ian state that Chris was there in another part of the conversation that wasn't in that screenshot?

I see where he stated that they could vouch for him but nothing about being there.
Looks like he is stating that they can vouch for him as a good person or something along those lines.


Switching Hats

You missed one profanity in that screenshot. Please be more careful.
 
Sarah I know you said this is not a reflection of the KHS but appointing Ian VP while this is unresolved is pretty telling of the ethics of those that are seemingly going to be appointed as officers of this group. There is no way this incident can not reflect and reflect very poorly on those running the KHS that they are above the law and will do as they please.
I hope you get your snakes back but as you suspect it is likely Ian does not even have them all anymore. I have been involved in several breeding loans and outside of death all of my animals have been returned to me on request. Good luck and I hope that those named ultimately end up doing the right thing.
 
He already is an officer with the KHS...

i-rfwww3n.jpg


Unfortunately it gives KY and the KHS a black eye when something like this happens and they do nothing to resolve it.

Sarah, Justin Gibson (not sure who he is...was it Gibs on the KHS board?) said he will private message Ian to see if he'll get it straightened out.
 
I know people on the BOI seem to loathe legal action. But at this point, I'd probably contact Legal Aid for assistance or simply call the cops and report stolen property.
 
It would be hard for Sarah to prove theft to the police since she handed the snakes over to ian on breeding loan, without some sort of signed document it's his word against hers and since he has them, I don't see him being charged with anything. He is however losing his reputation, maybe he does not care but if it were me and I were right I would be here defending myself.
 
markpulawski said:
It would be hard for Sarah to prove theft to the police since she handed the snakes over to ian on breeding loan, without some sort of signed document it's his word against hers and since he has them, I don't see him being charged with anything.
Click to expand...

Maybe. She has pictures and posts about the snakes. She has her chat logs in all of this. Ian would have to produce a bill of sale for the animals, or show some record of giving funds to OP. Either way, the cops will go knock on his door and request to see the snakes in question and will be able to take pictures. The point would not be to have him charged with anything, but to get eyes on the snakes.
 
I think that the police would say it was more of a civil matter.

The incoming president of KHS Chris Barmore told me in a message that he's been trying to act as an intermediary between the two.
 
I'd be very surprised if the snakes were still there. I just can't imagine someone letting his reputation go bad just to keep a few snakes. It just doesn't make any sense.


Noelle
 
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