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Bad Guy Ian Curtis - Stolen African House Snakes

This Thread makes me Laugh.....It should be titled "How to Blow your Rep in 10 days" How to go from a potential VP of the KHS all the way back to "Snake shit excavator" Ian if you persist with this behavior......you will Drag the KHS thru the mess!
 
Dennis Hultman said:
Just seeking clarification.



David, Did Ian state that Chris was there in another part of the conversation that wasn't in that screenshot?

I see where he stated that they could vouch for him but nothing about being there.
Looks like he is stating that they can vouch for him as a good person or something along those lines.


Switching Hats

You missed one profanity in that screenshot. Please be more careful.
Click to expand...

Word for word, no Ian did not say that Chris was there....but he certainly implied it......I'll see if I can dig up the part where he said another memeber of the KHS was also present. Honestly, Ian probably *tried* to say that they were present, but his lack of ability to convey his thoughts precisely lead him to say "vouch for".....as you can see, he is not exactly a master wordsmith.
 
This was the conversation I had with Chris back in February of 2013. As you can see, I expressed my dismay at having to sell my collection of AHS, but corrected Chris that Ian did not own any of them. This was pretty much right after I dropped them off with Ian:




The efforts of me and Chris are what follows:











The rest will follow...
 










Chris's idea to use his attorney friend was not a bad one, even though I had my reservations. But it was still something I considered pointless without the proof that my snakes were still in his possession.

Legal action would cost more than the worth of the snakes. I am not made of money, and neither, I imagine, is Ian...which is why I have still not seen his cease and desist letter or any lawyer info. Police would be unable to really do anything, they cannot enter his house and take pictures just to show me. Besides, I cannot think of many officers who would know an albino AHS upon sight, anyway.

Lesson learned. When embarking upon a breeder loan, no matter HOW nice some one seems to be, or how many of your friends "know" him, write up a legal document. Have them sign it.

I have the sick, sinking feeling my snakes are either dead or sold.
 
Heres the deal.....*I* did not bring up my past issues with the KHS or anyone in it, Ian did that in private conversation on FB between him and myself. I do not feel I was being unreasonable with Chris in any of our conversations......perhaps the truth we are speaking is starting to settle in and he realizes what a calamity he is in the middle of. The KHS is already struggling, barely able to get people to come to meetings and membership is no doubt very very low these days. There are tons of people in the local reptile community who wish to have nothing to do with the group because of the previous long-time officers, and this situation isn't making them look any better.

If this situation goes unresolved and ignored by Ian and the other officers of the KHS, this very well could be the nail in the coffin for the group. Which sucks, because the *idea* of a strong local herp group sounds great.....but the abrasive personalities that have ruled it for many years have impeded such progress.
 
SincereArtisan said:
Legal action would cost more than the worth of the snakes. I am not made of money, and neither, I imagine, is Ian...which is why I have still not seen his cease and desist letter or any lawyer info. Police would be unable to really do anything, they cannot enter his house and take pictures just to show me.
Click to expand...

Legal aid is completely free if you qualify, and only requires a call to see. At the very minimum they can get an order from a judge that requires Ian to show the snakes to a humane or law enforcement officer.

You loaned him snakes, he kept them, you've got nothing back. This would most likely qualify as a scam and fall under the LAS's commerce area. Saw this type of stuff a lot when I worked at the law firm (usually with dirt bikes and tires). Most judges don't assume people just "give away" a few hundred dollars worth of stuff. You have good documentation. I'd try before throwing in the towel.
 
I have messaged Ian. My username on the KHS is jaygib9, I've helped them with their internet presence, created their Facebook page, and will be removing the KHS forums altogether very soon as most everything is on Facebook now anyways and the forums are hardly used. I've been a member of the KHS for years. I for one would love to see a resolution to this and want everyone to know that while Ian is a member of the KHS, right or wrong, his actions are his own and they shouldn't reflect upon the KHS either way.
Justin Gibson
 
Ian's actions *shouldn't* reflect on anyone but himself......but the reality is thats not how the world works today. His actions DO reflect poorly on the KHS as an entity, whether we want them to or not. And the KHS trying to sweep it all under the rug by deleting posts and ignoring the problem with one of their key officers isn't helping.
 
Nobody's trying to sweep it under the rug. It's pretty public at this point. I'd assume that whoever is removing the posts from the KHS site is doing so to keep the KHS out of it since it IS a personal matter and not a club one. I consider you a friend David, please refrain from attacks on the KHS, they aren't necessary.
 
I have not "attacked" the KHS in any way, shape or form.....if telling the truth and showing people evidence is considered "attacking" then I cannot help that certain people have that perspective. I consider you a friend as well, Justin.....you're a good guy and always looking to help people out. I know your intentions are good. I do not hold that against you at all. But look at things from a wider viewpoint.....how does all of this look to an outsider? Does the KHS look better or worse as a result?

This stopped being a private issue when an officer of the KHS (Ian) suggested the issue be brought to an official meeting of the KHS for "resolution." Can you not see that the only one who has involved the KHS is Ian, through his own actions?
 
Ian is an officer of the KHS, but this is still a personal matter. It isn't going to be resolved at a KHS meeting, and I'd hope that the other officers of the KHS not allow it to be involved in personal matters. My viewpoint is irrelevant, as I wasn't there, and I don't know the truth, whatever it may be. I can only state an opinion, which I won't do. I care about the KHS, and what it and some of its members have done for the reptile, amphibian, and invertebrate enthusiasts in the area, and for the animals themselves.

"Basically, they don't care what he does as long as he doesn't screw *them* over." Things like this are why I said what I said, I'm looking out for the club, not myself, my reputation isn't at stake here, I know what kind of person I am and how I'd respond. The club and enthusiast community must be protected from personal issues.
 
If only Ian showed the level of concern that you do for the club's reputation......maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation if that were the case. :-/
 
I do see that his actions could reflect on us whether we want them to or not, with him being the new President/Vice-President, and this being a snake related issue.
 
Is there much to the KHS in terms of real clout or is it the seemingly impotent GI Joe action figure & Barbie doll play party with needlessly grandiose titles (which can be as meaningless as being CEO of a $250 LLC) as it appears like to me?

Behavior such as this of a "high-standing" member is not a mark in favor of a legitimate organization or even of a fledgling group aspiring to build a sense of legitimacy.

Exceedingly poor PR.
 
When I brought this issue to light, I was unaware if Ian's impending status as VP. Will Bird had not even stepped down yet. This initial posting to the BOI was intended to call Ian out for his behavior. Not the KHS.

Yes, it was an appalling shock that Ian was to be named VP. And it is only for my love of the KHS and what they represent that I have voiced my opinion of him all the more strongly. Some one who cannot deal with his own personal matters without the aid of an organization and it's members does NOT deserve to be an officer of that organization in any way. I tried--repeatedly--to deal with this matter in private. Ian chose to brin other names and the KHS into this, and still I tried to avoid involving them. Until, of course, I discovered that Ian was to be named VP. At that point I felt the members and fellow officers of the KHS deserved to know who was being appointed to represent them.

I repeat. Again. My fight is not with the KHS. (Not even after the hurtful remark from Will Bird, which I am not certain how I deserved.) It is with Ian Curtis. It is Ian's own fault that the KHS has been dragged this far into it. Had he come clean in the beginning and chosen to work this out like an adult, we would not be here.
 
Exactly.

Ian involved other members of KHS as a way to turn things in his favor and attempt to apply pressure to achieve it.

However, it is a mark against an organization to let itself or its members be manipulated in such a fashion. When Ian called them in, they were willing to get involved. Now that things are not going quite as smoothly as Ian may have hoped, people talk of Ian being "his own man" and are trying to bow out.

*If* Ian actually takes his impending role with KHS seriously and cares about whatever people believe the organization stands for, he would give Sarah back the snakes which are hers and put this ugliness behind him and behind the organization. Otherwise, it looks like officers can be called in for personal reasons and then make excuses about not wanting to be involved in personal disputes after having already engaged. Again, this speaks to a group's legitimacy, but not in its favor.
 
On that picture of Wills response, which was November 20th, which was when you sent a very long letter to Ian, I see no specific names or situations being mentioned. It appears to be a response to a generic comment. I can't speak for Will or anyone else, but this could easily be taken out of context and assigned to this specific situation without the people responding even knowing the full story at the time of their response. From the KHS site:
98qu.jpg
 
I would think everyone would applaud the KHS if they kicked Ian out if he did not fix this soon, what club would want a member with this going on running their organization?
 
jaygib9 said:
On that picture of Wills response, which was November 20th, which was when you sent a very long letter to Ian, I see no specific names or situations being mentioned. It appears to be a response to a generic comment. I can't speak for Will or anyone else, but this could easily be taken out of context and assigned to this specific situation without the people responding even knowing the full story at the time of their response.
Click to expand...

Given the timeline and how hard Ian was trying to bring multiple people from your very organization into the drama, I find it highly unlikely people weren't aware of what was going on.
 
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