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IBD Allen belcher/Big daddys wholesale

Dixie Reptiles said:
Also,can I get the name of the vet you talked to and contact info for him.Thanks Terry
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Terry, did you sell the spider to Allen? If you didn't why do you need the vets info? :shrug01: I think Allen is capable of coming here if he needs that info.
 
Allen is one of my vendors and I would like to know for myself.I see his snakes every month and have not noticed any problems.Terry
 
Dixie Reptiles said:
Allen is one of my vendors and I would like to know for myself.I see his snakes every month and have not noticed any problems.Terry
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Is braile your main method of reading, by chance?
 
No Wes, but I see you have 4,094 posts here.I sure dont want to challenger a fauna lifer.Have you ever seen any of his animals or did you just convict him on the B.O.I.
 
Terry,
I have defended Allen's position regarding another matter in the past, and am no stranger to at least following the IBD concerns raised. I am not as condemning of him as some have been here regarding the IBD, but nor have I assumed an "innocent until proven guilty" pass for him. From all that I have heard, his show presentation is adequate or better. I also think he has some serious problems here. We may be in agreement so far.

It is my opinion that the IBD is probable to have at least passed through his facility. I was a bit disappointed that Allen's initial responses here involved claiming that his animals were likely clean of it due to fecal results. A nice thing to wish for, but also indicative of an ignorance to the problem, as it is best to say nothing if you know nothing. I haven't really cared to engage in the debate as to what he should or should not do, or has or has not done, as much of it is conjecture, and will depend greatly on his husbandry, quarantine procedures (if any), ethics, and what test results he can afford. I do not blame him for choosing to not participate here. As he deals in both low-end wholesale and high end morphs, he is in a position to be quite a "Typhoid Mary", as I mentioned long ago. Essential to any solution, IMO, was knowledge and being pro-active. He flunked the knowledge thing early on, and its hard to be reasonably pro-active if you lack the knowledge to grasp the potential problem.

I hope he makes the right choices here, such that the end result will be that fresh manifestations of IBD are not caused by him, and that his own internal losses, should IBD be in his animals, are minimized as well. In the meantime, it is likely, and prudent considering the circumstances, that folks will give him a wide berth until he can restore customer faith. Them's the breaks.
 
I agree with you Jim. I don't have the "concrete" proof that Airtriss had here. I only have a test result that said inconclusive, a vets opinion, and a dead spider that set me back an additional 1800.00 between vet trips, necropsy, and animal replacement. I am not saying at all that anyone should take my word for the Allens collection. I have read many other complaints here about them that are costing people as much or more than mine did. I hope for the best with the rest of my collection not being infected as I do not have the 60,000.00 to replace it.

The only thing I can say for sure is that Allen sold me a snake that he falsly advertised. The snake was not healthy, did not eat, and did not deficate on his own. If this was a healthy snake, I am sure I would not have had the problems that I had. Allen's only solution for me was to ship the snake back, after I read Airtriss's post about his snakes dying from IBD, and I didn't feel comfortable sending it back to him to let him get feeding or send me a replacement. The spider was also not healthy enough for me to ship IMO.

On a side note, I have filed a formal complaint not only with kingsnake.com but also with IC3.gov. IC3 deals with Internet fraud issues and I have high hopes that Allen's collection will be heavily looked at in the near future.

I will get you the vets info as soon as I can. I am heading there next week for another matter and I am hoping to talk to the doctor face to face.

J_
 
Terry now we might not be really concerned about Jon's test results as we can't see those results and it doesn't seem he had the animal tested for IBD. But we do have the results of an animal that we know came from Allen and there is no doubt that the animal had IBD when in Allen's possession. Now you can pretend that IBD is nothing to be concerned about and that good ol boy Allen wouldn't do you wrong and put you in the same boat he's in IE you both now have knowledge that there is a very good chance that Allen may have IBD infected animals at YOUR shows. And By your allowing him to be there with his animals YOU may be putting the animals of ALL who attend your shows at RISK. You have prior knowledge that for a fact at least one animal from Allen had IBD. Now you can pretend all you want and we hope you get lucky and it doesn't come back to chew on your hind end, not for your sake but for the sake of all those who go to your shows all those that you fail to reasonably try to protect.

I wonder how your defense of Allen will feel if you do take a bite in the derriere? At the very least you should warn other vendors that there is a chance that Big Daddy may have an IBD problem..Randy
 
i would just like to say, this whole thread makes me shudder... just the thought of even coming close to an IBD infected animal without knowing..... it makes me want to curl up in a corner with all of my snakes and never get another from somone i DONT know at all again! you never know where the snake has been! im sorry to those that have had to deal with this problem... its devastating and to think people willingly sell these animals anyway to make a buck... the nerve...
 
Dixie Reptiles said:
Allen is one of my vendors and I would like to know for myself.I see his snakes every month and have not noticed any problems.Terry
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Terry, If Allen is a vendor at your shows, would it not be the logical thing to ask him to show proof of health of what he is selling ? I mean some where in here is Ron's proof, it exists that one of Allen's sold Boa had IBD, And I do believe also in here some where also, that Allen said he had proof that his animals are clean.......But no proof presented itself. So no matter how long we sit here and bang on a key board and try to find the hidden answers, to this ...... The answer lies with Allen, And he ain't talking, and that is a sad true.
 
All very good points ! I am trying to figure this out myself.I have a large collection and also and bought a few from Allen.I am told by Allen the he asked for the spider back,in my opinion it should have been sent back, if not buyers loss.I am watching this closely but I can not put him out of my show without something more solid.I still dont know for sure if the boa came from Allen to start with and I know he has traced his boa sources looking for problems.I look at every table at my show before it opens and will have animals removed if they do not look outwardly healthy.I have also permanently barred vendors for this problem.Thanks for the positve responses,we will not get anything resolved taking shots at each other.Terry
 
Terry.....did you see the picture with Allen's business card? That boa came from Allen. What would this gentleman have had to gain by claiming it did, when it didn't? There's no doubt the spider came from Allen...And eyeballing the animals coming to each show isn't going to do much good, when animals can be completely asymptomatic and still have IBD.

Instead of waiting until you have what you deem proof that he has IBD....why not be retroactive and wait for proof that he DOESN"T have IBD in his animals before allowing him back to the show? Proof besides a few fecal tests, that is. 1 animal from Aleen DID die from IBD, another more than likely did. That would be more than enough for the average herper to avoid the guy.
 
terry is allen's tool, being used to make allens outright theft and spreading of the worst disease in the boa world look like it is less than it is.

terry has chosen to be allen's tool for money. terry made this choice with the knowledge that allen has IBD in his animals. terry is for sale to the highest bidder.

I'd boycott terry's shows were they here, signs and all.

If we as a community don't stand together and stand firm, tools like terry and his master allen will cost some of us everything we've worked for.

That would be a bad bad thing.
 
Shrap, you were, as is usual, SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO correct. You put the dumbasses on ignore and your post count goes wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy down. The only drawback is that so do the chuckles.

I reckon it's worth it though.
 
Although my sign carrying days are over, I will be boycotting that show. A Cali girl living in the south will be enough culture shock for me as it is, I refuse to support a show that will allow it's vendors to call the shots.:NoNo:

Wilomn said:
terry is allen's tool, being used to make allens outright theft and spreading of the worst disease in the boa world look like it is less than it is.

terry has chosen to be allen's tool for money. terry made this choice with the knowledge that allen has IBD in his animals. terry is for sale to the highest bidder.

I'd boycott terry's shows were they here, signs and all.

If we as a community don't stand together and stand firm, tools like terry and his master allen will cost some of us everything we've worked for.

That would be a bad bad thing.
Click to expand...
 
Dixie Reptiles said:
I just can not compete with your wisdom Wes. Have a nice day. Terry
Click to expand...

Terry.....I'm guessing that was sarcastic....but I'm hoping that you can at least comprehend that what is being said by folks here makes sense, and if more people attending these shows knew what was going on, they would be agreeing as well. No one wants to risk bringing IBD into their collection, and for someone to completely look the other way and pretend that there is nothing wrong with what's going on would be no less responsible for that happening than Allen, IMO.

And Wes.....you too are SOOOOO right. :thumbsup:

And Laura..that is a point I never really thought of....and a very good one.
 
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