IBD Allen belcher/Big daddys wholesale

[Cat_72]

OK, I see it now........August 28th. Just over 3 months ago......

 

[Cat_72]

*2 months ago, not 3 months, typo.

So..the time frame would be about right.

 

[airtrixx]

Jon a snake that rolls over is def not a good sign. The things i noticed right before my snake died were a substantial lack of movement, and when it did move it looked as if it would stop and just stare forever, with its head either hanging or lifted off the ground, about a week before it died the tounge stoped flicking completley, at the time i still didnt know about ibd so i didnt know to flip it over, but the day it did die i heard to try that so i did and it just kinda laid there and moved its head around in my hand, then i put it back in the cage and boom it just started thrashing around and died. All this and my snake was trying to eat the whole time, it just regurged every time. I would have your snake tested but no, live tests are not super accurate. I did buy my snake on Sept. 3rd of this year. Wish you luck, Ron.

 

[Jon Mitchell]

I am very dissappointed about this. I hope that i caught it in time before it infected my entire collection. I will be sepperating the snakes that could have possible exposure to the spider and dissenfecting their cage throughly again. I am almost positive that the spider will have a sharp decline from here and I must say again, I am very dissappointed in Allen. I see what happens to the rest of my collection and again, I hope I caught it in time.

You know, some people in this world care nothing about people or animals and only care about making money quickly and without regard for who they hurt. I have emailed Allen to tell him the same thing about the spider but I have heard nothing yet. I will expect him to pay for his mistake and his neglegence and hope that we can do it outside of a court room.

Thanks again guys,
Jon

 

[Cat_72]

Boas tend to show the symptoms somewhat differently and in a less "extreme" manner than pythons do.....though I have to agree completely, the flipping over is NOT a good sign.

The blood tests are all but useless, but the liver tests are pretty accurate. However, the post-mortem tests are the most accurate way to tell.

 

[Corey Woods]

I don't want to give a false sense of hope as IBD is a serious disease and proper quarentine proceedures need to be followed no matter who you deal with. However, the problems with the spider may not be IBD. Spiders with severe cases of "wobble head" show some of the classic signs of IBD, however, they are "perfectly normal". Some of the more extreme causes of wobble head spiders have the star gazing as well as falling over themselves and having a hard time righting themselves. They also tend to crawl with their heads tilted on a 45 degree angle. If you pick them up by the tail they will cork screw and have a hard time righting their heads. Most people consider this "normal spider behaviour" as it seems to be linked to the spider gene. Not all of them do it but there are varying degrees of it. Normal spiders can produce wobble heads and wobble heads can produce normal offspring. Most people with wobble heads say they eat and breed fine. I never got into spiders due to this reason and I didn't want to produce wobble heads.

I would still keep your snake in quarentine and continue assist/force feeding it on a weekly basis. Starving them rarely gets them to eat. It just causes them to go down hill quickly or establish a sporatic feeding response. Hopefully after you have him eating on a regular basis he'll start wanting to eat on his own which is the case for most problem feeders. If your snake is still alive in 6 months I'd say you just have a severe case of wobble head which is a neurological condition in spiders that is not contagious just something that comes along with the spider gene.

Good luck.
Corey

 

[Cat_72]

Corey, no one said that it WAS IBD, and I'm sure we all, are in fact hoping that it isn't. But with the seriousness of the situation, I can't say that I would agree that discouraging him from having the testing done is the best answer. Not having kept spiders, I wonder if this rolling over, and sudden onset of such behavior is normal for the 'wobble heads"?

I see Allen's "friend" Tegusforyou is reading.....maybe he'd like to give us some more insight.

 

[Corey Woods]

I'm not discouraging him from getting the tests done. I'm just saying if the spider doesn't die it may just be a severe case of "wobble head".

Corey

 

[Cat_72]

Isn't the "wobble head" apparent from hatch, though? From what I understand of it, it isn't something that would suddenly and severely appear one day.....but as I said, not having kept them, I could be mistaken.

 

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

Um.......it was suggested that Ron could email them the vet report and such....Ron is the one who had a snake DIE from IBD after purchasing it from Allen. I'm not sure how much more involved he could be.

The point is Ron bought the snake at a show, not thru a KS ad. As much as people like to bash KS, they really have no duty to control advertising unless there are complaints arising out of the previous ads at the site.

 

[Cat_72]

Ah, thank you Lloyd, I misunderstood what he said.

 

[Kairo]

Excellent!

Thanks for the good news!

And that is great news. But as we learn more about IBD, we know it has many forms or transmission, perhaps. At least it would seem to be safe to say as well many people who go to the reptile shows hold large constrictors and get the snakes fluid (if present) breath, skin etc. on our clothes. Not good if the snake is infected for our snakes. I don't see why we can't carry it home.

I have gone to 3 shows in Florida, and never once held a snake for fear what i may carry home on my clothes.

I now am going through a problem with a friend who owns many BP's and Boas..they are starting to slowly over months to a year just die. He never once took one of them for a necropsy.

Now he visits and we talk on my porch. This may seem paranoid to many, but i have much hard earned $$$$ in my snakes.

Just my.02 on this subject.

 

[Jon Mitchell]

Vet trip for the spider

Well, I took the Spider to the vet today and had a fecal exam as well as blood work. The fecal exam showed no parasitic anomelies. The blood work will be in 3 to 5 days.

I did get in touch with Ralph Davis who I have bought most of my collection from in regards to the spider. He said that in his opinion, a snake of that age and weight, if it contracted IBD before it was shipped to me, it would be dead by now. He also confirmed what Corey was saying about the "wobble head" and the "spider roll" and said himself that he has many spiders that do the same thing. He was all but positive that it didn't seem like an IBD infection but but said never say never.

The vet prescribed Bytrill for any kind of internal parasites that didn't show on the smear/flot test he ran. I am going to keep an eye on him of course and see what happens. I did send an email to Allen telling him I was taking him and he asked to know the results. Not sure if he intends on replacing the snake or reproducing my monies but we'll see.

Jon

 

[Cat_72]

That's a good thing to hear, Jon...I have my fingers crossed for you!! The blood tests are not nearly as accurate as the other types, but if he remains as he is and doesn't get any worse.....a solid quarantine is kept in place....hopefully all will be fine. Baytril, however, is an antibiotic, so I would think it was more to cover any kind of infection as opposed to parasites.

And Pamela....a certain amount of paranoia is a good thing, lol. I tend to go overboard, myself......but mine are pets just as much as anything else, and I would be devastated if something happened to them.

 

[greg4000]

the whole thing sucks.

i still agree with others that he should stop selling until he knows for sure. thats incredibly irresponsible. regardless, i wont be buying from them at all. thier rap sheet is getting way to long.

 

[Jon Mitchell]

Hey Cathy,

Yeah, I reread my post and realized I put parasites instead of an antibiotic. The tests all came back negetive for parasites.

 

[floridaboy85]

Jon-> I don't understand the point of your vet visit. It has been pointed out several times that fecals and blood test provide no information on the presence of IBD. Live tissue biopsy is required to know. So you went to the vet and still don't know. If this snake dies it needs to be biopsied, it's the only way to know.

Bill-> OK His adds were pulled. Do we know if Allen pulled the adds or if KS did? And if it was KS , why??

 

[Jon Mitchell]

Andrew

I went to the vet to see if there was anything else wrong with him. I plan on a biopsy upon death if such occurs. I felt with the severe change in behavior, he might have gotten ill from something else.

If death occurs, I will be sending him out to have a full electronecropsy performed to confirm or deny my and many others suspicions.

Jon

 

[Bill_Leverton]

Jon-> I don't understand the point of your vet visit. It has been pointed out several times that fecals and blood test provide no information on the presence of IBD. Live tissue biopsy is required to know. So you went to the vet and still don't know. If this snake dies it needs to be biopsied, it's the only way to know.

Bill-> OK His adds were pulled. Do we know if Allen pulled the adds or if KS did? And if it was KS , why??

I really don't know who pulled them but they were gone.

 

[floridaboy85]

His adds are back up.