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IBD Allen belcher/Big daddys wholesale

floridaboy85 said:
Jon-> I don't understand the point of your vet visit. It has been pointed out several times that fecals and blood test provide no information on the presence of IBD. Live tissue biopsy is required to know. So you went to the vet and still don't know. If this snake dies it needs to be biopsied, it's the only way to know.
Click to expand...

Blood tests CAN confirm the presence of IBD. They cannot, however, rule it out....
 
The guy that owns a pet store near me Called him and flat out asked if he should be worried because he got snakes from him and that was his response and he decided not to sell any of the ones he has left and called the 3 people that bought from him and told them what the deal was and gave full refund. All the snake are now in his back room seperated from all other snakes.

Bob Schneider
 
So now he's not only lying here, he's purposely spreading misinformation about IBD.

Nice.

I see Tegusforyou is reading again.....still no comment? Allen has nothing to say tothose that actually know something about IBD, huh?
 
ads

Cat_72 said:
So now he's not only lying here, he's purposely spreading misinformation about IBD.

Nice.

I see Tegusforyou is reading again.....still no comment? Allen has nothing to say tothose that actually know something about IBD, huh?
Click to expand...
He also has ads all over kingsnake once again :angry: .I guess they do not care enough :angry:
 
What do i say? I'm as worried as you guys and gals. We have put every dime. We could beg, borrow and trade for, to build a very nice boa and Burmese python collection. As of right now we have 32 boas from breeders to babies, and 5 adult burms. All but one male is over 11 feet. Several balls and one carpet(for fuzzy balls) and a Whole lot of lizards. I have a appointment with my vet in the morning, to discuss what options are open to us and our animals. And see just how many animals we can afford to have blood and fecal tests done on. This is for peace of mind for us. We have had no sick animals other then a burm that I missed that the heat got bumped down on and as soon as i fixed it, he had a slight URI. With in a couple days, he was clear and no rattle in his breath. Just ate a 5 pound rabbit with gusto! We produced 4 clutches of boas and a huge clutch of albino burms. We have had only two snakes die. One was a premature boa and the other we sold. A week after they got it we were told it had died. Asked for a pic of body and still haven't gotten a pic or body returned. We offered their money back for the snake, but not shipping. Still waiting to hear from them. We keep a photo of every reptile we produce along with giving our customers the eggs and birth certificate. We got a nice het with paper work, and decided to do it for everything we produce, be it a gecko to albino blue tegus. From our photo records we didn't produce Ron's boa or his brother's, of this I'm sure.
Thanks, Tegus For You
 
And see just how many animals we can afford to have blood and fecal tests done on. This is for peace of mind for us.
Click to expand...

I could say it again but one would think it has been said enough to get a little bit of a clue.How can you get peace of mind from tests that are inconclusive at best.
 
OK you tell me how to sleep and not worry, My partner and best friend both work for Allen and I wont have the tests done. I haven't had any sick animals, but from what I've found out there are some markers like high white cell count and a few others i cant spell, that show more testing is needed. but I'm no expert on this and I have learned a lot from this thread and others on here.Going to see DR.Harris in the morning. At least if everything looks normal I can feel a little more at ease. But I know it still doesn't make me free and clear.
Thanks Tegus For You
 
Tegusforyou said:
OK you tell me how to sleep and not worry, My partner and best friend both work for Allen and I wont have the tests done. I haven't had any sick animals, but from what I've found out there are some markers like high white cell count and a few others i cant spell, that show more testing is needed. but I'm no expert on this and I have learned a lot from this thread and others on here.Going to see DR.Harris in the morning. At least if everything looks normal I can feel a little more at ease. But I know it still doesn't make me free and clear.
Thanks Tegus For You
Click to expand...

I'm not even going to debate about who the boa was purchased from...whether or not it was bred by you personally, it came from Allen. That means, at some point, an animal that DIED FROM IBD was at one time IN ALLEN'S FACILITY. Period.

Fecal tests are completely pointless, and blood tests are next thing to pointless. It's very possible no animals have shown symptoms....YET. And Allen is flat out LYING when he says that animals cannot be asymptomatic carriers. Read ANY information about IBD, and it will tell you otherwise. Talk to ANYONE that has dealt with the nightmare, and they will tell you otherwise as well. Even if what Allen said about it not being airborne, (even those who have studied it for YEARS don't know for certain, I'm impressed that Allen knows)do you disinfect your hands every time you clean one cage and then go to the next? Or pick up one animals water dish to fill it, and then go to the next animals cage? I thought not.

You know......it MAY be true that there is no IBD in his facility, but it may not. With no proper testing, you may never know until it is too late. Even so.....the fact that Allen doesn't give a damn enough to at least do some REAL testing, and is willing to take that chance of not only ending up wiping out his own collection but those of many others.....that is enough to make him the kind of person I would NEVER, EVER consider purchasing from.
 
Looks to me like allen is trying to off load a pile of snakes. I wonder how many are selling, or if might be a getting out of the hobby soon sale?
 
Spider Blood Work

Well, I got the results from the blood work much faster than I thought.

So they tell me there are three different types of white blood cells in the body. The one that is usually high with IBD is normal. Another one is also normal. The third one is pretty high. That white cell is usually casued by an infection or liver disease. They ruled out liver disease with another test so they are guessing an infection. Again, they gave me Beytril that he said would cure that so we are good there.

The other thing that is wrong with him is his Glucose level is very low. He thought this might be causing the sudden barrel role that he is exhibiting. I took him off of assit feeding because he got some weight on but was still not eating on his own. It has been about three weeks since I fed him but I am going back to assit feeding him tonight. The vet gave me a glucose prescription to inject into the thawed prey to get that up and he suggested to feed twice a week with it for two weeks.

He also noticed some wasting in the muscles that he felt was from not eating for the three week period. He felt like we might be for the time being anyway, in the clear for IBD right now. I am keeping him in an even tighter isolation quarantine for the next 6 months to keep an eye on him.

He is 70g now so he is still heavier than when I got him. I got him at 52g so he has kept the weight on from those feedings.

I will let everyone know what happens over the next few weeks. If it is IBD, I am sure he wont make it more than another month or so.

Jon
 
Well, that sounds very promising, Jon, great to hear! Be sure to keep us posted on how he does. :)
 
Tegusforyou said:
OK you tell me how to sleep and not worry, My partner and best friend both work for Allen and I wont have the tests done. I haven't had any sick animals, but from what I've found out there are some markers like high white cell count and a few others i cant spell, that show more testing is needed. but I'm no expert on this and I have learned a lot from this thread and others on here.Going to see DR.Harris in the morning. At least if everything looks normal I can feel a little more at ease. But I know it still doesn't make me free and clear.
Thanks Tegus For You
Click to expand...


The best way , longer as well , is to fork out for as many live biopsies as you can. As the tests clears those animals move them to another part of the house and repeat as money permits till the whole collection is done.
 
Feed him Friday night with the injected glucose. Made him take two fuzzy sied mice. He is one of those that you can't just get it locked on his teeth and he works it the rest of the way down, I have to force them down his thrat and then work them down a little ways. He hasn't moved a whole lot since feeding him but what little he has, it seems like the head tilt has corrected a little bit. I haven't seen a complete roll since the feeding either.

Fingers crossed but I hope everything goes well.

Jon
 
Are You Going Too....

Allen I have seen you signed on a few times over the past couple of days, and not yet have you even tried to address this.......So are we to take this as an admission of Guilt ?? Dude you really need to step up, or are you going down in flames like all your other business ventures ?? I'm still hoping that you can pull that rabbit out of the hat and prove all this to be false ...... :shrug01:
 
Just wanted to let everyone know that now Allen is comapring himself to a used car salesman. In an email I got from him today, he said if he sold me a car and the motor ticked, he wouldn't stand behind it if I had someone else look at it first. Basically, it seems he wants the snake back to cover his tracks maybe with IBD if that snake has it. He doeesn't want to butt heads with me over it anymore but I just asked him if the snake had IBD what we could do to cover some of my loses.

Apparently he doesn't care about his customers but I am sure that has been stated here many times over.

Jon
 
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