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If shipping was restricted to just airlines, will that affect your business?

How would shipping airlines only affect me?

  • If I had to ship only through airlines it would only hurt my business slightly.

    Votes: 3 20.0%

  • If I had to ship only through airlines I would pretty much be out of business.

    Votes: 9 60.0%

  • As a buyer if I had to pay for airline shipping I might as well buy from a local pet shop.

    Votes: 5 33.3%

  • As a buyer I would prefer airlines as the only shipping possibility.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .
DragonCharm said:
It's not that they wouldn't buy from me, I wouldn't sell to them. The animal's health is my primary concern, not making a buck. Therefore if I don't see them treating them properly I don't sell to them.
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PeaceMaan.gif
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You got that right. I just refused to foster a BP to someone who didn't seem like they would be the greatest parent. The whole reason I rescue is cuz I give a hoot about the animals in question. I wont give them up to just any "joe america", unless they seem to have a sincere interest.

As for the shipping thing. It's been said, most people will just go to the pet store. And that is sad, because they will most likely come home with a poor quality animal, sometimes sickly, and pay a higher price. Even sadder cuz if they only "knew the truth", probably many would go ahead and pay the extra. Like Jim said, thet's where people like us need to step in and educate them.

For low end breeders, there would definately be some adapting going on, and I can see a few that may even give up on it, if air cargo was mandatory.
I cant see why anyone would have a problem with shipping on a high end reptile. But like I said on the other thread, a high end breeder can afford to eat the shipping, and should IMO.

When I talked to Pete Kahl in 1999 about getting my F4 albino from him, I paid over 3K for her, and saved for a while for that, So I DROVE from El Paso, to Daytona expo, to pick her up in person. To me, that was my investment, (and later turned into my only daughter. LOL), I wasn't letting her be shipped anywhere. But that's Me.

I know not everyone can do that, but any who can afford a high end reptile, shouldn't mind the extra effort, or $$ to obtain their pet safely.

Just my $0.025
Ciao,
Rick
 
Personal shipping preferences aside, this would be a hit to almost everyone in the business if the airlines was our only option. There is no ifs ands or buts about that.

Cost and inconvenience will drive away a very large percentage of real world buyers. Sad but true. I will say one thing though, at the rate Fed-ex and UPS are raising their overnight rates it wont be long until Delta is in the same price range. For those of us that live near major airports it is becoming more and more a cost effective option.
 
We are in absolute agreement Sammy. And with gas prices at $3+ a gallon in the Midwest by the end of the year, and one had to ride for 1 hour each way to the airport as I do, my next snake shipment would probably be when I own an hydrogen car! Right now they are $200,000, but prices will drop...;)
 
I live midway between Chicago and Detroit which would be my only choices (I've looked into it).

I would have to pay for gas and spend a lot of my time as well as pay shipping to order animals.

It would force me to find more shows closer to home and to meet more breeders/dealers to get some kind of pathway established to get the animals I want.

That is pretty much the path I am taking now, though. But I really do want a couple of James Wilsons Rosy Boas....
 
The BoidSmith said:
We are in absolute agreement Sammy. And with gas prices at $3+ a gallon in the Midwest by the end of the year, and one had to ride for 1 hour each way to the airport as I do, my next snake shipment would probably be when I own an hydrogen car! Right now they are $200,000, but prices will drop...;)
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Though UPS and FedEx will be imposing further rate increases and "fuel surcharges" making shipping more expensive no matter how you do it. Remember, door to door services are a bit more fuel sensitive as they have to truck shipments from your door to the local distribution center, to the hub, to the airport, in addition to flying the package cross country, and then repeat that process in reverse. All Delta has to do is load it on a passenger flight that is going that route anyway. So Delta's rates will rise, but perhaps proportionately not as much.

And where do you plan to get the hydrogen, and what will be the energy source used to manufacture it? Last I heard someone had proposed using heat from the geysers in Iceland to generate hydrogen (from water) and shipping it here. It's going to be awhile before that is a viable alternative I think. :rofl:
 
And where do you plan to get the hydrogen, and what will be the energy source used to manufacture it? Last I heard someone had proposed using heat from the geysers in Iceland to generate hydrogen (from water) and shipping it here. It's going to be awhile before that is a viable alternative I think.
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Jim,

The fuel cell technology is already here. In fact I have one in loan right now at my place that obtain from the MN Chamber of Commerce to show it at one of our Satet Fairs. It's a process whereby you use distilled water and solar energy to split the water in Hydrogen and Oxygen, and the the fuel cell on the other end regenerates the water. In the process energy is liberated that is used to power the engine. Every major car company in the US and overseas are working on the hydrogen car. The current hybrids whcih have barely hit the market will become obsolete in approximate 10 years.

Kindly,
 
I live in VERY rural Iowa....it's a minimum 2 1/2 to 3 hour drive just to GET to a major airport.....that's not really taking traffic into account. I also work third shift, 10:30 pm to 7 am, and also work most Saturdays. So....even if the cargo places are open ealry and late, my options are EXTREMELY limited, in fact I'd probably end up choosing between sleeping for a day and getting to the airport, not to mention what it is getting to cost in gas to get there and back.

There are also almost no shows within several hours driving distance. There's one a year in Des Moines that I'm aware of in September, and some in Chicago (which is a good 9 hour drive, I believe). There are 3 pet or herp shops anywhere near here, one of which I refuse to sell to because they do NOT know how to care for their animals (they sell a heat rock with every snake and don't even carry UTH, for starters), and the remaining 2 shops are quite small and one produces most of his own animals.

I sell mainly low-end critters, which in turn are starting to help fund my journey into some higher-end animals. At the point and location I'm at, as much as I think the ability to ship Delta would be great, "adaptation" for me would either be relocating (which is not going to happen), winning the lottery and buying into lots of high-end animals......or giving up.
 
Or Cathy, you would wholesale your animals (or do a consignment deal with someone like me who is nearer to an airport) and ship them in one box making the trip to the airport worth your while. And unless you work seven nights a week, you would do it on a day off (Delta Cargo operates seven days a week). Or you would use a personal day. Or you would be out of "business". But there would be options.

What do people in Canada do? They do not have any door to door option. They ALL manage to get to the airport for every reptile that is shipped, or so I understand.
 
Well, I have Sunday during the day off, but have to be back to work again Sunday night, so again, there's that choice between sleep and shipping. At my job, I don't have the liberty to take personal days, unless it's a major emergency (as in a emergency room, death or dying related issue, lol) and at that, I'm allowed 20 personal hours per year. And my kids usually manage to use that up in one way or another, lol.

Wholesaling would be my only option really (besides winning the lottery, I'm still working on that one :) ) but as it is I'm not really making any profit, but at least I'm not losing money. Not making much of a profit isn't such a big deal, I do it for the enjoyment of it more than anything.....but if it comes to the point of constantly losing money, I just couldn't do it. And taking a cut in price by wholesaling, besides the higher shipping costs.....I don't see how I could come out ahead at this point.

Don't get me wrong.....if it were an option for me, I would much rather use Delta as either a buyer or seller. At this point, if there were one high-dollar animal I REALLY REALLY wanted, I wouldn't let the fact that it had to be shipped Delta stop me, but to try to be making that trip on any kind of regular basis would be impossible.
 
This is purely speculation, but as for the folks in Canada having to make the airport shipping work.....well, I'm going to make a guess that perhaps there are less small-timers like me in the business up there. Do you know if shipping prices up there are comparable to what they are here?

Not to mention the fact that just knowing how many reptiles in the US go through the USPS or UPS illegally.....there's a good chance that they in Canada are "slipping some by" as well.....

( I think there were too many "U" and "S" in that last sentence, I've confused myslef.)
 
Dennis1 said:
I just wanted to say that i was not trying to bash all petstores
I believe they are usefull to this hobby and most of us probably wouldnt be here without them
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How do you figure that? Is that where your parents got you?? :raspberry

LOL J/K....I couldn't resist.
 
My mom said that I was shat out on a rock and hatched by the sun.

You think she lied to me??? :bawling:

:raspberry
 
Well actually

Jim O said:
How do you figure that? Is that where your parents got you?? :raspberry

LOL J/K....I couldn't resist.
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Nope
they got me from the petty zoo...lol

Anyway i just figured that most people bought a reptile from the petstore one time or another
 
My experience is that we've notice a dip in sales of sub $50 animals due to UPS and Fedex raising rates over the last two years. Add to this another addition in cost plus an hour or two in drive time and inconvenience and you will see a large dip in sales in the industry. You will see a dip in the production of "backyard" breeders as they won't be able to sell at retail or near retail prices and will need to wholesale off to pet stores. This will drive down demand as people will no longer look at reptile breeding on a small scale as profitable (being able to make money breeding reptiles is a two edged sword. It increases demand but also increases people who are looking to exploit the reptiles for a buck). This will increase pet stores sales and prices (if I can no longer get a corn snake shipped to my door then the local pet store will not feel the need to be competitive on pricing and will raise thier pricing) and lower the volume of sales in general.

Why is the lessening of sub $50 animals and lower sales volumes at pet stores an issue? Because reptiles are like potatoe chips, you can't have just one. The person that buys a sub $50 reptile, can get hooked and will more than likely, in my experience, move onto other reptiles and more expensive reptiles. So the person I sell a common ball python to this year, becomes dan's customer for a high end ball in 2 years and vice versa.

A study of Adam Smith will show that the easier a transaction is the greater the economic benefits. Also the fewer middle men between consumer and producer the more effective the consumers buying dollar is. This is the benefit that the internet has brought to the american economy and the reptile industry in particular.

Daniel Wedeking
Scales - Premium Exotic Reptiles
http://www.exoticlizards.com
 
Jim,

Seriously now (I couldn't resist the joke!). It doesn't really matter if there is no sun vecause the technology can be based either on distillled water or hydrogen tanks that when combined with oxygen produce energy and water. The exhaust of the hydrogen cars instead of gases is plain water. Really environmentally friendly.

Regards.
 
The BoidSmith said:
Jim,

Seriously now (I couldn't resist the joke!). It doesn't really matter if there is no sun vecause the technology can be based either on distillled water or hydrogen tanks that when combined with oxygen produce energy and water. The exhaust of the hydrogen cars instead of gases is plain water. Really environmentally friendly.
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I understand the science of 2H2 + O2 <--> 2H20 + energy. The question is how to get the hydrogen and how to transport it. Solar energy is a nice idea, but how many of us are going to set up solar panels in our 10,000-15,0000 square foot suburban lots (make that 5000 square feet or less in California and Florida)? The laws of thermodynamics are such that you can't get more energy out of a process than what you put in (energy cannot be "created" except by converting matter to energy in a thermonuclear reaction of some sort). The idea of using renewable forms of energy to power automobiles is nice, but seeing as how the infrastructure and technology to do so on a really large scale has not been developed or deployed, there still need to be plants to produce the hydrogen that goes into those tanks. And what will power those plants? Fossil fuels? Geysers in Iceland (that is not a joke, there are people considering that as use of a clean, renewable form of energy)? If they use coal and/or petroleum products to manufacture the hydrogen from water then we still face the emission of greenhouse gases and other noxious chemicals, and the price is still dependent on the price of oil. Also remember the second law of thermodynamics and that is no process is 100% efficient. So there are now two conversions to power the car, first burning oil to make the hydrogen and then the "burning" of the hydrogen to propel the car.

Another issue which needs to be addressed include the propensity for explosion. Have you ever seen the experiment where the science teacher electrolyzed water into hydrogen and oxygen, then ignited the hydrogen producing water and energy (a pretty loud "pop" for a small amount of gas)? I wouldn't want to be the guy the plows into someone's hydrogen tank.

While I agree that these cars are a good idea, until there is actually a way to use renewable, clean forms of energy to generate the hydrogen, we are just shifting where we burn fossil fuels, not whether we burn them. In the end that makes no difference to the environment.
 
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