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If someone shipped to you this way, what would you do?

Shadera

Shadera

Wayward Python Wet Nurse
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I got the animals I wanted, but time will tell if they live.

Animals were shipped regular overnight to me, and spent about 25 hours in transit. They were packed in a regular box with no insulation, no padding except some cardboard pieces underneath and a couple padded envelopes on top, then the snakes were then packed inside in a cell phone box.

I took pictures as I opened the box, as soon as I saw there was no insulation and physically felt the interior of the box was hot. To describe it, it felt like standing in front of my incubator and opening the door, the way the heat rolled out when I opened that box. The animals are alive but even after taking them out of their bagging and putting them into quarantine tubs they still measured about 90 degrees on their outer skin with an infrared temp gun. I misted them and left them be in the dark with plenty of cool clean water. Anything else I can do in the meantime? The larger of the two looks to be in good health otherwise. Chance of neurological issues from the temps? Needless to say, if they pull through they're visiting with my vet.

Does this warrant at least an info thread on the BOI? What little feedabck they had previous was good so that's why I went ahead with the purchase. I expect no compensation, but do think others should be aware that this person thinks it's okay to ship sentient beings like this.
 
TripleMoonsExotic said:
Yup. That warrants a BOI thread. Improper shipping is completely intolerable considering the wealth of information available online on proper shipping practices.
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That's what I'm thinking. I passed along some helpful links as well as places to purchase the inexpensive supplies to ship properly just in case they didn't know any better. I get the impression they do, but benefit of the doubt and all that..

I post something up once I calm down a bit.
 
Shadera,

I would post it up. I would venture to say that the animals will be fine. If they were moving when you opened the box and are not clearly impacted from the heat (unable to move, unable to right themselves, rolling over on their backs) then they are probably ok. I had an incident quite a few months back and lost 2 snakes to overheating. However, dozens more were perfectly fine and the temps far exceeded 100 degrees. Not worth explaining the whole story but I moved them in bags in rubbermaids in a cargo van. I didn't anticipate the floor of the cargo van getting hot. Big mistake and lesson learned. In this case there is no excuse for shoddy packaging like that. Best of luck and feel free to call or email me if you need any help, advice, etc.

Jamie
 
Guessing they are ball pythons? Species does matter, as tolerance to temps varies.
Is there a reason you are questioning their survival? Were they limp, inactive, doing anything unusual?
If they weren't displaying neuro symptoms when you unpacked them, there really isn't much reason for them to develop them. They start showing signs as the damage is occuring.
You said the larger of the two seems to be in good health otherwise...which begs the question, what's wrong with the smaller one?

BOI thread - it can be justified, as an informational post...but, personally, I would wait a bit. See what happens with the animals. And what the seller's response is; both when you inform him of the situation, and the outcome. (If you see new inquiries before you have those answers, you can always PM the poster with your story).
 
Thank you for the insight Harald. Yes, they are ball pythons. The smaller of the two was a freebie I was originally going to purchase but when he admitted a mistake and that he was off on her weight by half and offered me the chance to back out on her I did. He included her anyways, which I genuinely appreciate but then it does make me feel ungrateful in a way that I'm complaining about how they were shipped. The smaller was tightly coiled, but did move around enough to get an eye free of her coils to look at me. She's pretty thin and her backbone prominent. The larger (500 grams or so) was flailing around until she was unbagged but to be honest I'd be flopping around trying to get out of there as well. When I misted her, she had little problem moving her body around to get a good strike at me if she'd have gotten a chance. I'm sensing she's very stressed and a bit frantic.

I've just never had anything anywhere close to this happen before and am a bit freaked out myself. Most of it is shock I admit, but I'm one of those people who obsess over animals they ship and grind their teeth until they hear all is well. My foremost concern is for these critters, and I am just unsure as to what might manifest later with heat damage. I suppose I'll just wait and watch them closely for anything odd. I felt horrible just plopping them into tubs and leaving them, but I really feel they've been through enough for a day.

I guess I just need an e-hug today. :(
 
eHug...cute... :)

If one or both has a neuro problem from the overheating, the snake(s) can still live a healthy, "happy" life. I have a CA Boa Constrictor here who had something similar happen to her when she was a neonate. She's now full grown and very healthy outside her loopy-ness.
 
shadera, I have sent hundreds of snakes regular overnight – you are the first to complain about that and my packing skills. there are many ways to skin a cat, and styrofoam boxes are but one shipping method, and one I do use when I deem it necessary. I actually think the other way I pack snakes to give more protection, and absorption, and climate control. but you know what you know and think that the only way. you go on to lecture me... a complete stranger to you, actually using the words “shame on you” - I’m sorry, I’ll not interact with you on that level.

feel free to ship the snakes back to me. I’ll reimburse you.
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I guess I have my answer. He DOES know better. If I'm the first to complain, the other shipments have just been lucky. A cell phone box for God's sake.

Again, I am not looking for any money outta the guy. There's no way I'm shipping them back to him after what they've endured because of him. I will post my thread with pictures later.
 
MagickalMorphs said:
I guess I have my answer. He DOES know better. If I'm the first to complain, the other shipments have just been lucky. A cell phone box for God's sake.

Again, I am not looking for any money outta the guy. There's no way I'm shipping them back to him after what they've endured because of him. I will post my thread with pictures later.
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Wow. I don't know anyone that ships snakes regular overnight. That means they could sit in the sweltering hot back of a delivery truck around 4:30 in the afternoon. It's irresponsible and obviously meant to save the seller a few bucks. I wonder, did he pass that savings on to you? Padded envelopes and a cell phone box? Is he joking?
 
shadera, shipping both snakes in one box to clarksburg will be $59.
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And that is what I paid. From NY, NY to here.

They were picked up yesterday afternoon at about one to be drug around in that truck until they were dropped off to be shipped, then spent the entire morning and part of the afternoon on the delivery truck here. It does get incredibly hot in those trucks, and the freight area isn't temp controlled.
 
MagickalMorphs said:
And that is what I paid. From NY, NY to here.

They were picked up yesterday afternoon at about one to be drug around in that truck until they were dropped off to be shipped, then spent the entire morning and part of the afternoon on the delivery truck here. It does get incredibly hot in those trucks, and the freight area isn't temp controlled.
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wow again. I get really good rates at fedex so im not sure of retail rates but I would guess no more than $50 for priority. Seems he is making profit on shipping at the animal's expense. I drop off as late as I can. My local hub is 8:30 for the last expess drop off. I never box before 5pm or drop before 6pm. What a joker.
 
I have no problem with overnight shipping. My local place closes at 6pm, but the last pick up is 5pm. I get the box there after 4pm, and it goes overnight to the buyer, without any issues.

*I* however use a proper styrofoam insert box, and heat or cold packs as necasary.

$59 sounds about right, depending on the size/weight of the box. But I'd never think of shipping snakes in a uninsulated box, in a cell phone box. That's crazy.
 
Please let us know when you get the B.O.I. thread posted?
I'd really like to know more details and see the photos.
I hope the snakes are all ok in the end.
 
Wolfy-hound said:
I have no problem with overnight shipping. My local place closes at 6pm, but the last pick up is 5pm. I get the box there after 4pm, and it goes overnight to the buyer, without any issues.

*I* however use a proper styrofoam insert box, and heat or cold packs as necasary.

$59 sounds about right, depending on the size/weight of the box. But I'd never think of shipping snakes in a uninsulated box, in a cell phone box. That's crazy.
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Standard overnight shipping? I have a problem with using a service that doesn't guarantee delivery until late afternoon. I'm not ok with an animal sitting on a truck all day. I ran the info through UPS.com using Shadera's zip and mine as the shipper (close enough to where this guy is):

5 lbs package in a 12 x 9 x 6 box:

Next Day Air (by 10:30) $50.43
Next Day Air Saver (by 3:00) $46.23

He saved a whopping $4 (or thereabouts), still charged her $59 and risked the animal's lives. No excuse...
 
I would bet that if he ships hundreds of snakes that his discount with UPS is pretty good so that rate would be even lower. I put that in without even logging in and applying my UPS discount.
 
If he shipped through shipyourreptiles, it would have arrived by 10:30, and he would haved saved 30%. The only next day air option w/ shipyoureptiles is guaranteed to arrive by 10:30, because thats the BEST way to ship for live shipments. I've never heard of anyone shipping a live animal normal overnight. I hope your snakes turn out OK.
 
Aahhh yes.. that wonderful guarentee of arrival at 10:30am. My last package did not arrive until mid-afternoon, and the last 4 packages that were shipped TO me did not arrive until early afternoon, all despite the 10:30 guarentee.
I always choose that too, I've just never had it work. So I consider that to be "overnight", even if it's listed as "by 10:30am overnight".
 
Wolfy-hound said:
Aahhh yes.. that wonderful guarentee of arrival at 10:30am. My last package did not arrive until mid-afternoon, and the last 4 packages that were shipped TO me did not arrive until early afternoon, all despite the 10:30 guarentee.
I always choose that too, I've just never had it work. So I consider that to be "overnight", even if it's listed as "by 10:30am overnight".
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I guess it depends where you live. I have never had a 10:30 AM Priority package not get delivered by 10:30. It also doesn't excuse it.
 
jglass38 said:
Standard overnight shipping? I have a problem with using a service that doesn't guarantee delivery until late afternoon. I'm not ok with an animal sitting on a truck all day. I ran the info through UPS.com using Shadera's zip and mine as the shipper (close enough to where this guy is):

5 lbs package in a 12 x 9 x 6 box:

Next Day Air (by 10:30) $50.43
Next Day Air Saver (by 3:00) $46.23

He saved a whopping $4 (or thereabouts), still charged her $59 and risked the animal's lives. No excuse...
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No matter what a shipper sends animals to me by, i NEVER get them early morning where i live.

My driver , on the other hand, keeps my animals up front with him. We are very friendly and hes an awesome driver. UPS will do the same for me if its my regular driver.

Depends on the area for that service. There are a bunch of threads on the forums about it.
 
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