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Inbreeding

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Denise.
You dont have to answer this if you dont want to.
You bought 3 dragons from Tere and 2 from Wendy. They both admit to having AV problems (please ladies do not get mad, this is not an attack on any of you).
You had 3 dragons come back positive. Were these dragons from either of them? Out of the 5 dragons were any of them neg?

Jim.
 
JimD said:
Denise.
You dont have to answer this if you dont want to.
You bought 3 dragons from Tere and 2 from Wendy. They both admit to having AV problems (please ladies do not get mad, this is not an attack on any of you).
You had 3 dragons come back positive. Were these dragons from either of them? Out of the 5 dragons were any of them neg?

Jim.
Click to expand...

No, please, Denise, do answer him...and correct him on the number that came from me.
 
Saladragon said:
No, please, Denise, do answer him...and correct him on the number that came from me.
Click to expand...

Ok. You say she bought 3 dragons from you. I said she bought 3 dragons from you. You told her to tell me the number of dragons she got from you. Where is the problem?

Jim
 
mikey said:
What is your game plan, if any bins test postive?
Click to expand...
That is an easy one for me, I'll freeze any remaining eggs and I will no longer breed until a lot more information is known about the virus itself. I'll keep any babies that do not appear healthy, and give away the healthy to homes where they can be pets only.
There are a lot of unknowns with AV. Are their multiple strains? What percentage of them stay 100% asymptomatic? What percentage has serious issues as compared to minor growth related issues? How possible is it to stay AV free? I don't have answers to any of those questions.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm not here to pass judgment on people who don't test, and after the last report from Dr. Jacobson, its hard to even know what to say about people breeding dragons they know are positive. Testing is expensive, and if all the animals in your collection are large and healthy and you aren't experiencing high clutch mortality, I can completely understand someone being reluctant to spend money they don't have to perform a test that, at least right now, you have no guarantee is 100% accurate.
I'm also aware that I have the luxury of not being dependent on breeding for my income. Its actually WAY less expensive for me to NOT breed than it is for me to breed. Anyone who has ever paid for crickets for a clutch of dragons they basically give away can attest to that fact.
 
JimD said:
Ok. You say she bought 3 dragons from you. I said she bought 3 dragons from you. You told her to tell me the number of dragons she got from you. Where is the problem?

Jim
Click to expand...

Just give Denise time to answer, Jim.
 
JimD said:
Denise.
You dont have to answer this if you dont want to.
You bought 3 dragons from Tere and 2 from Wendy. They both admit to having AV problems (please ladies do not get mad, this is not an attack on any of you).
You had 3 dragons come back positive. Were these dragons from either of them? Out of the 5 dragons were any of them neg?

Jim.
Click to expand...

Yes. Both dragons from Wendy that I bought during her first breeding season are currently testing negative. I don't think that Wendy has had an issue with any of her babies from that first season.
Izzy, the dragon previously mentioned as positive came from Tere. The other two are negative. One was from one of Tere's breedings, the other was sold to her as female and was a male, so he didn't spend a whole lot of time in her care.
The two dragons in my care that I am MOST confident will always test negative are the two that came from Wendy. I can go into the reasons I feel this way if you like, but I am really confident that her assessment on how her colony because is dead on.
 
Saladragon said:
No, please, Denise, do answer him...and correct him on the number that came from me.
Click to expand...
All told, I have over the years purchased a total of 5 dragons from Tere. 2 adults and 3 babies. It was one of the babies that later tested positive for AV.
Our of the 5, one tested positive and one that tested negative was recently sold as we reduced the size of our colony. I still have 3 of them, Percy, Astraea and Phoenix, and all 3 of them have been tested.
Izzy is the dragon that tested positive. Daphne also came from Tere, she is currently testing negative and just had her third test run days ago by her new owner. I assume she'll let me know the test results when she gets them.
 
Denisebme said:
All told, I have over the years purchased a total of 5 dragons from Tere. 2 adults and 3 babies. It was one of the babies that later tested positive for AV.
Our of the 5, one tested positive and one that tested negative was recently sold as we reduced the size of our colony. I still have 3 of them, Percy, Astraea and Phoenix, and all 3 of them have been tested.
Izzy is the dragon that tested positive. Daphne also came from Tere, she is currently testing negative and just had her third test run days ago by her new owner. I assume she'll let me know the test results when she gets them.
Click to expand...

Thank you.
 
Denise.
The three you bought were not all babies then. 1 baby and 2 adults for that transaction.

Jim.
 
Saladragon said:
Thank you.
Click to expand...
You're welcome.
Its actually important information because I have a feeling if we had enough information, we could actually figure out when you were contaminated by the transmission rates and when I bought from you since it was so spread out.
 
JimD said:
Denise.
The three you bought were not all babies then. 1 baby and 2 adults for that transaction.

Jim.
Click to expand...

Actually, the purchase listed on my feedback was for 2 babies and a juvie. I puchased one adult from Tere before that purchase and 1 adult from her after that purchase.
 
Denisebme said:
You're welcome.
Its actually important information because I have a feeling if we had enough information, we could actually figure out when you were contaminated by the transmission rates and when I bought from you since it was so spread out.
Click to expand...

You tell me what you need to figure that out, and you'll have it. I only recently stopped racking my brain trying to figure it out...and just accepted that we have it, and there's nothing we can do about it.
 
Denisebme said:
Actually, the purchase listed on my feedback was for 2 babies and a juvie. I puchased one adult from Tere before that purchase and 1 adult from her after that purchase.
Click to expand...

Oh, and just because I can feel people gearing up for an attack, lets just say that not one of the dragons I bought from Tere have ever been bred. The reasons for this are pretty simple.
First off, I am just unsure enough about how many tests are necessary before you can have any definitive level of confidence in the test results. I'm going to wait on all 3 of these animals until I am a lot more confident that their status is indeed negative.
Second, on the dragons from Wendy. I am pretty confident that I bought these dragons before her colony was infected and I have pretty good reason to feel this way. She had zero issues with her first years pairing, and I have yet to hear that ANY of those dragons have tested positive for this virus. That alone has given me come confidence in both Kahli and Tinkerbelles test results.
 
Denisebme said:
Oh, and just because I can feel people gearing up for an attack, lets just say that not one of the dragons I bought from Tere have ever been bred.
Click to expand...

I am so glad I'm not the only one who caught onto that.
 
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Saladragon said:
You tell me what you need to figure that out, and you'll have it. I only recently stopped racking my brain trying to figure it out...and just accepted that we have it, and there's nothing we can do about it.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think we both have a strong suspicion about where Izzy''s positive comes from, though I still don't quite understand how you could have one sibling test positive and another test negative, that one is a question for the reseachers.
Percy being negative isn't a surprise because of how early I bought him. Phoenix you only had for a week or so, so he isn't that big of a surprise.
The one that puzzles me is Astraea. She is still all by her lonesome in quarantine because I just don't get how she is negative. She is so fat and happy, but I just don't trust her results yet. Thankfully she is still pretty young so we should have another full year to test her before we have to worry about eggs. I've got my fingers crossed for her, she is a beauty.
 
Im by myself her girls. Im not on the phone conspiring with people. Im asking questions. Plain and simple. If you think Im trying to set you up, please.
Believe it or not. I read everything that has been posted about AV. Lots of it twice. Im trying to figure out how a lot of this works.

Jim.
 
Denisebme said:
Actually, I think we both have a strong suspicion about where Izzy''s positive comes from, though I still don't quite understand how you could have one sibling test positive and another test negative, that one is a question for the reseachers.
Percy being negative isn't a surprise because of how early I bought him. Phoenix you only had for a week or so, so he isn't that big of a surprise.
The one that puzzles me is Astraea. She is still all by her lonesome in quarantine because I just don't get how she is negative. She is so fat and happy, but I just don't trust her results yet. Thankfully she is still pretty young so we should have another full year to test her before we have to worry about eggs. I've got my fingers crossed for her, she is a beauty.
Click to expand...

I know where Izzy's came from...without a doubt in my mind. I don't understand it either, Denise, but it's just like how does his wife test negative? Who the virus chooses doesn't make sense to me like that. One thing that was explained to me is that her genetics are stronger, that she came from many, many years of a closed colony and very strong bloodlines. But that still doesn't explain Daph...unless she got her nothing but her mom's genetics.

I don't get Astraea either, but if you'll remember right, she wasn't here for that long either. Maybe that was the saving grace. And not only is she a looker, she's super, super sweet.

So basically, are you saying that it points one of three ways, which in essence, boils down to one of two ways? And of those two boiled down ways, only one is really logical?
 
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