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INFO: UPS-will they honor their agreement?

YJHB said:
The outside temps are surprisingly high; they must have kept the packages shielded from the worst of it.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I honestly believe that since that temperature chart recorder was attached to the outside of the box, the carriers gave the package extra attention and did keep it from seeing any extreme external cold. Too bad, because it would have made a much better experiment if we could have seen the differential from inside the box.
Bill & Amy said:
I also wonder if the placement of the heat packs would change the outcome (like under the newspaper)?
Click to expand...
Actually, the entire box was stuffed full of shredded newspaper right before sealing it up.
 
Interesting. One inch of insulation is not usual for most shipping boxes and it does surprise me how little even that much insulation moderated the interior temperature. I would have expected more lag time between a change in the exterior temps and what was detected inside. Insulation (except in the case of a pure vacuum) generally does not stop a temperature change, it only delays it.

That temperature spike at 4 hours is pretty noteworthy. Had the outside temps been around 80 degrees or more, it could have been a serious condition inside for the animal. Particularly if the box had been placed in a heated truck after pickup. I would expect a smaller box to amplify that temperature spike.

As I said, interesting data........ Thanks.
 
Golden Gate Geckos said:
Exactly. I honestly believe that since that temperature chart recorder was attached to the outside of the box, the carriers gave the package extra attention and did keep it from seeing any extreme external cold. Too bad, because it would have made a much better experiment if we could have seen the differential from inside the box.
Actually, the entire box was stuffed full of shredded newspaper right before sealing it up.
Click to expand...
*Timidly raises hand*
Now you're going to see that I have a bit of larceny in me... I want to make a fake 'transit temperature' box that looks just like that one for use on the outsides of the boxes on an ordinary shipments... :reddevil:

I'm weak, I can't help myself here after what happened... :toiletcla
 
YJHB said:
*Timidly raises hand*
Now you're going to see that I have a bit of larceny in me... I want to make a fake 'transit temperature' box that looks just like that one for use on the outsides of the boxes on an ordinary shipments... :reddevil:

I'm weak, I can't help myself here after what happened... :toiletcla
Click to expand...

Exactly, if thats what it takes to insure the company actually cares for the package correctly. How much do one of temperature recorders cost anyway?
 
There's a wide range of prices. At home I have the water resistant Hobo data loggers. They go for approximately $120. You can find cheaper non-submersible ones for around $50.

Regards
 
The BoidSmith said:
There's a wide range of prices. At home I have the water resistant Hobo data loggers. They go for approximately $120. You can find cheaper non-submersible ones for around $50.

Regards
Click to expand...
! They're reusable and everything??
Muahahahaha..... I'm getting such great vibes.

I wonder if they make jolt recorders too...
 
YJHB said:
Now you're going to see that I have a bit of larceny in me... I want to make a fake 'transit temperature' box that looks just like that one for use on the outsides of the boxes on an ordinary shipments...
Click to expand...
Believe me, Rob and I actually thought about how we could make a 'dummy' recorder to attach to every shipment! It is painfully apparent that the unit caught the eye of every single person that came in contact with the box. The lowest recorded external temperature never dropped below 47 degrees, and it was in the 30's for most of the trip!
 
There's a wide range of prices. At home I have the water resistant Hobo data loggers. They go for approximately $120. You can find cheaper non-submersible ones for around $50.
Click to expand...
Actually, we got the second one for free from TeleTemp if we promised to post their name in any publication regarding this experiment. They cost about $35, and are not resusable. They would normally cost a lot more, because the unit is supposed to be shipped back to them for the data extrapolation and a report generated. We did it ourselves instead.
 
If recording devices really make employees more careful, perhaps it would be worthwhile to explore the idea of attaching a min. - max thermometer in some kind of protective plastic cover on the outside of the box (right next to the colorful sticker that says "Avoid Extreme Heat" or "Avoid Freezing"). That would serve the purpose of proving the hottest and coldest temps the box was exposed to, and they can be bought at reasonable prices, although still too expensive to send with a $35 cornsnake.
 
Golden Gate Geckos said:
Believe me, Rob and I actually thought about how we could make a 'dummy' recorder to attach to every shipment! It is painfully apparent that the unit caught the eye of every single person that came in contact with the box. The lowest recorded external temperature never dropped below 47 degrees, and it was in the 30's for most of the trip!
Click to expand...
Maybe I missed some of the posts. Other than seeing the difference between the inside and outside of the package (which was not as significant as I would have thought), I don't really see the significance of this "test". There are horror stories from every carrier, and there are also "I've never had a problem" stories from every carrier. Some have a better overall track record. Lots of packages make it in the winter with lows in the 40's, 30's and even less, and conversley in summer with temps in the 90's.
The package may have gotten "special treatment", but more of these tests need to be done. It's quite possible that the box simply got shipped "right" as does actually happen sometimes, even with UPS. Even if they saw that recorder, I'm not so sure they hand delivered it every step of the way, or took it into a heated office or something if there was a delay, etc. As many packages as they are moving, especially with temporary workers who could care less, I don't think it would be much different than a package marked "fragile", "glass" "live animals", etc. and we already know they still treat those like footballs. Every package shipped that day (from beginning, to hub, to destination)may have stayed at 45 degrees.

KathyLove said:
If recording devices really make employees more careful, perhaps it would be worthwhile to explore the idea of attaching a min. - max thermometer in some kind of protective plastic cover on the outside of the box (right next to the colorful sticker that says "Avoid Extreme Heat" or "Avoid Freezing"). That would serve the purpose of proving the hottest and coldest temps the box was exposed to, and they can be bought at reasonable prices, although still too expensive to send with a $35 cornsnake!
Click to expand...
As I noted above I'm not sure it would help, maybe initially, but then I think they would get "use" to them, like boxes marked "fragile". That said, If it was proved it helped, we could charge the customer a returnable deposit. Explain that these temp devices are needed, so when the customer receives the package, they simply send it back (we could include a priority box) then we refund the deposit in full.
I think the only time that these devices would help would be in the instances where, a package is lost or delayed, and is then left on the tarmac in the sun (summer) or in 15 degree weather (in winter), and some employee notices that it is a temp controlled package and takes it to somewhere safe. Does this happen enough, that that would be feasable?

Another issue....UPS only guarantees that you receive the package, not that it will be alive....so maybe they could care less what the temps are, even if there is a temp recorder on the box. Who knows.
 
John makes a good point, and we should probably take repeated measures under different circumstances to increase the value of the test. ”). So here is what I propose if Marcia cares to participate with her box I’m willing to take part of the experiment (that is returning the box in a timely fashion). If we have enough people across the country, which care to participate we can come up with something very useful. It could turn out to be very valuable information for people who regularly ship animals and most importantly for the security of the animals themselves. This is probably among the coldest spots in the country. Temperatures are going to be around 15-20 for a high next week. It would be interesting to ship the box completely unlabeled (except for “fragile) and see what happens. One thing that could also be done is check the outside temperatures at certain “key” hours during transit (using weather.com) after all is what most of the people do when shipping. So what do you say? Why doesn’t everyone provide ideas about the “design” of such an experiment and we launch asap?

Regards
 
Hah! I can remember an incident where I was standing in line at a UPS hub waiting to get some packages shipped and some guy ahead of me had a large box with FRAGILE stickers all over it. The woman at the counter gave the guy a sour look and said "I'm sorry, sir, but UPS does not DO fragile shipping......." :rolleyes:
 
I certainly agree that much more data is necessary in order to actually benefit from it. There really should be a more scientifically designed experiment with a baseline control established... not just a 'quick and dirty' like Rob and I did. I truly expected to see the recorded temperatures from the outside of the box much lower.

What might make more sense at first would be to use a electronic temperature probe to measure sealed box interior temperatures using 1, 2, and even 3 heat packs over a period of time. Ideally, it would be in a geographical area that has overnight external temperatures into the teens. This could be done by putting heat packs inside the box, sealing it up, making a small hole in the box to insert the probe into the interior, and letting the box sit outside in the cold for about 24 - 36 hours.

The closest information I have seen published on this is from Superior Enterprises for determining what heat-pack to use for shipments:
http://www.superiorenterprise.com/tips.htm
 
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