(Inguiry)Rare Pythons

[Wraith]

I said I won't sell hets, I'm working on a genetics project, but I'm not selling anything pertaining to it, so why is that relevant to earn such commentary?

Anybody dealt with them? Website looks good just havn't heard much about them. I'm trading some morphs for different hets.
~Tony

We agreed on a trade of my '05 male spider and '05 male pastel, both proven many times and have some size to them for his '07 het albino female and '07 het pied female and I would pay shipping for both myself and him too.

I just got an email from him rare pythons/Chris today asking if I'm ready to move forward on the trade.

ok...so you won't SELL the hets but you obviously are quite willing to quickly trade them off after having just invested in them for future breeding project. ??

 

[rarepythons]

No I'm not trading them either. I received a trade request from a guy named Tony the other day and my response this morning after making that statement as in the following email:

----- Original Message -----
From: Rare Pythons Staff
To: Tony
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: Emailing: rare pythons 001, rare pythons 002, rare pythons 003, rare pythons 004, rare pythons 005, rare pythons 006, rare pythons 007, rare pythons 008


Tony,


I no longer feel comfortable selling off ANY of my hets, eventhough they were from reputable breeders and I have paperwork (attached). I really don't want to deal with the headaches or have any further accusations made against me for potentially selling false hets. I just wanted to thank you for your time. If you want to trade for some large normals I'd still consider it (they are WC) but tick free and I'm going to take their feces to a vet shortly.


thanks

Chris

www.rarepythons.com

 

[ToshaMc]

Yes I understand.

I am not going to sell ANY HETS period for quite some time to keep that a non-issue. If it is something that I can't move past then I'll have to find a way to stick to homoz or just regulars long term as well.

Looks like you were planning on selling them to me.

 

[Wraith]

look below my hand in the picture..i pulled my hands out of the hood for the picture

I see no contained work space at an upper body/easy to work at level. I see no hood/filter over a contained workspace. I see no adjustable safety shield covering the front of a contained workspace. In short I see no laminar flow hood in that photo. All I see is someone pretending to look important in a posed photo layout.

In the general sense of laminar flow hoods, one of their main purpose is for working with items such as chemicals that are volatile and off-gas. The hood exhaust sucks the fumes out of the workspace and out of the building. Most people's first experience with these hoods hoods is when they take a chemistry class at school and they are not small things. They are usually contained counter top workspaces usually wide enough for 1-2 people to work comfortably side by side. In the manner to which you are implying the need for a flow hood for your "genetic research" would lead me to believe you would be working with one built for the opposite effect (i.e. using the hood to blow hepa filtered air OUT of the work space and into the room in order to keep room contaminates from getting into the contained workspace area. However, it can be difficult to keep adequate air flow working in the manner needed to keep the work area from becoming contaminated. The use of a flow hood in that manner would not realistically be used in a grossly non-sterile setting such as the room shown in your photo. They would be used in a proper laboratory/clean-room that is already pretty much kept in a sterile state and which followed strict guidelines to prevent any incidental contamination from occurring.

It seems to me from reading the posts you made today that you didn't even understand the concept behind the term "quarantine" so would it be that much further of a stretch to think that you probably don't understand the concept behind the need for a proper sterile lab for genetics research either ?

 

[tonychi01]

I can vouch for the email and the hets were for sale before I posted this inquiry. He has since taken the website down and will not be selling hets until he has proved himself in this business as reputable.
~Tony Martinez
[email protected]

 

[grandmagreen]

http://www.rarepythons.com/RPI.jpg

 

[rarepythons]

http://www.rarepythons.com/RPI.jpg

I just deleted all the data on the server, with the exception of the few links posted in this thread. I deleted the link to the above picture, and yes even though it shows me working under a hood, it also has more data in the picture than I would like to make public at this point. Once again I'm not currently selling any GM snakes, so it doesn't pertain to the current BOI issue.

 

[varnyard]

Well, that is fine that he pulled the ads after the fact, but is was after the fact.

 

[SPJ]

Well, that is fine that he pulled the ads after the fact, but is was after the fact.

I am starting to lose my middle ground opinion here.
A few visuals, hundreds of CH babies and ads for hets.
Doesn't look very good right about now.

 

[littleindiangirl]

I would just like to add some things from my point of view.

Chris, who do you plan on selling to? People that are really into the reptile and ball python community are a tight nit group. We often need to have recommendations from respected breeders, and we also aren't looking to buy very many "normals". In the beginning maybe, but not once we have plans under way to buy co-dom morphs and recessive hets.

You very clearly want the money and are exploiting the nature of the hobby. You want a piece of the pie without doing any of the work yourself. (buying 200 WC gravid females doesn't count as work in my book)

Going from noob to keeping hundreds of wild caught GRAVID females is unwise. It's true that the importing of wild caught ball pythons doesnt need to continue on a large scale with the availability and gene pool already in America. You saw that it was cheaper and went with that.

You know so little about the care and practice of snakes, evidenced in your lack of quarantine methods, I wouldnt buy from you based on that fact. It's a very simple and well known rule for even the most novice keepers.

It's frightening to think about how you treat your animals if you dont even know basics about dealing with WC animals. How many are eating for you chris?

You said your in this for the fast and hard buck. Sell the normal offspring... buy some co-dom males, breed them to your large normal hold backs, and WHAMO! RICHES!

What about vet bills? Non producing snakes? Non eating snakes? Your losing money the longer they stay with you, what happens to them?

Your probably looking at selling to first time buyers and pet shops. People that aren't active in this community and don't know how you decided to come in.

Also, why would you want to be a middle man? More of "reap the rewards without lifting a finger".

Keeping, breeding and selling any animal is more than just marketing and flashy websites. In this business it's largely about reputation and character. Yours is questionable and clearly stated to be focused on money. If those animals aren't making you a profit, and are eating up your finances, what would you do with them?

That's what scares me the most, the focus on money is reminiscent of a negligent petstore (and dare i say big daddy?).

~Connie Silvernaile

 

[rarepythons]

I am starting to lose my middle ground opinion here.
A few visuals, hundreds of CH babies and ads for hets.
Doesn't look very good right about now.

please read the whole thread. I only offered a few hets for sale and they were ones i bought from JC and Cypress Creek. I posted the papers on them. I did not list any hets other than those I have paperwork for. I took everything down b/c of this thread. As I said earlier I simply won't sell any hets period. I will have a huge number of CH babies that will be sold as regulars.

 

[KelliH]

I curious to know who built his website for him.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

So Chris, how many of those imports are eating for you?

 

[varnyard]

I am sorry guys, but I think the whole "lack of knowing about quarantine methods" is just a ploy to look like a newbie, but I will ask you do these racks look like the work of a newbie? I mean he is a very new breeder/seller of hets? Correct???

 

[rarepythons]

I would just like to add some things from my point of view.

Chris, who do you plan on selling to? People that are really into the reptile and ball python community are a tight nit group. We often need to have recommendations from respected breeders, and we also aren't looking to buy very many "normals". In the beginning maybe, but not once we have plans under way to buy co-dom morphs and recessive hets.

You very clearly want the money and are exploiting the nature of the hobby. You want a piece of the pie without doing any of the work yourself. (buying 200 WC gravid females doesn't count as work in my book)

Going from noob to keeping hundreds of wild caught GRAVID females is unwise. It's true that the importing of wild caught ball pythons doesnt need to continue on a large scale with the availability and gene pool already in America. You saw that it was cheaper and went with that.

You know so little about the care and practice of snakes, evidenced in your lack of quarantine methods, I wouldnt buy from you based on that fact. It's a very simple and well known rule for even the most novice keepers.

It's frightening to think about how you treat your animals if you dont even know basics about dealing with WC animals. How many are eating for you chris?

You said your in this for the fast and hard buck. Sell the normal offspring... buy some co-dom males, breed them to your large normal hold backs, and WHAMO! RICHES!

What about vet bills? Non producing snakes? Non eating snakes? Your losing money the longer they stay with you, what happens to them?

Your probably looking at selling to first time buyers and pet shops. People that aren't active in this community and don't know how you decided to come in.

Also, why would you want to be a middle man? More of "reap the rewards without lifting a finger".

Keeping, breeding and selling any animal is more than just marketing and flashy websites. In this business it's largely about reputation and character. Yours is questionable and clearly stated to be focused on money. If those animals aren't making you a profit, and are eating up your finances, what would you do with them?

That's what scares me the most, the focus on money is reminiscent of a negligent petstore (and dare i say big daddy?).

~Connie Silvernaile

Yes I am a novice and I got in way over my head. Yes I've made some potential bad decisions with the gravids, but I've done an immense amount of 'work' so far. I understand if you have interest in buying them, and maybe I'll get completely hosed on everything...and that would truly be devastating, but i'm not defrauding anyone. Maybe I'm screwing up from my lack of experience, but I'm not misrepresenting anything I'm selling.

Vet bills, non-eating snakes, non-producing snakes..all things I will have to deal with when I get there. I'm trying to learn as much as I can as fast as I can.


Well either way I will take care of all the snakes in my possession the best that I can.

I read up on how to build a quality breeding setup with heat tape, helixes, 41qt bins, aspen bedding, appropriate sized water bowls, etc. and that is how I set it up. I may be focused on making money in this industry, but that doesn't mean I'm negligent or abusive. They are still living animals, and quite frankly I'm doing my very best.

 

[rarepythons]

So Chris, how many of those imports are eating for you?

Currently only a few of the ones that have laid eggs. However I haven't had them for that long, and most are still gravid.

 

[SPJ]

I don't think he realizes it will be a major hurdle to get these girls feeding again after laying. Some (maybe all) will never eat for him if he doesn't have the experience and knowledge to get them eating. Expect to find large amounts of ASF rats to try with this group.

Also, have you ever gotten a hatchling to take it's first meal? That is also not a piece of cake. Some are no problem but you will run into the problem ones.
These are WC adults. They will not breed for you next year. It takes time and effort to get a WC to breed in captivity. They may not be eating or alive for you next year.

These will all need to be treated internally before you even think of intorducing them to a morph.

Another thing to consider is you don't just put 2 snakes together and they will breed. You will be lucky IMO if 50% of your animals are gravid each season.

I've dealt with WC, I've been down the road of getting new hatchlings to take their first meals, I've also had outrageous vet bills run up with a single snake. I do not envy the challenge you undertook. This is not the route to go to make a profit like you had thought.

I would also be leary since you were advertising hets but yet have not bred them. You would need serious documentation from trusted breeders that they supplied the hets you were selling.

This is not a make it rich industry.

 

[rarepythons]

I am sorry guys, but I think the whole "lack of knowing about quarantine methods" is just a ploy to look like a newbie, but I will ask you do these racks look like the work of a newbie? I mean he is a very new breeder/seller of hets? Correct???

Yes I'm a newbie, but I did some reading on how to build the racks from the web. I am not selling hets I produced, only a few i purchased, and I have the paperwork for them. Either way I've already said I'm not going to sell any hets period for quite some time b/c of the question of my character by this thread.

 

[littleindiangirl]

And really that's my point. You saw dollar signs and didn't read the find print. If you took time to find out how to make a breeder rack and set up husbandry, why couldn't you spend time reading posts from dozens of people dealing with WC animals?

This isn't a secret that WC are hard to acclimate and maintain. So why did you decide on WC gravid females?? Why not buy CBB wholesale from a large scale breeder that have the stock and give you a better chance of succes?

If you saw the business venture and were willing to throw thousands of dollars on a gamble, why not minimize your financial risk by buying a low-risk animal and doing the homework on the basics?

 

[rarepythons]

I don't think he realizes it will be a major hurdle to get these girls feeding again after laying. Some (maybe all) will never eat for him if he doesn't have the experience and knowledge to get them eating. Expect to find large amounts of ASF rats to try with this group.

Also, have you ever gotten a hatchling to take it's first meal? That is also not a piece of cake. Some are no problem but you will run into the problem ones.
These are WC adults. They will not breed for you next year. It takes time and effort to get a WC to breed in captivity. They may not be eating or alive for you next year.

These will all need to be treated internally before you even think of intorducing them to a morph.

Another thing to consider is you don't just put 2 snakes together and they will breed. You will be lucky IMO if 50% of your animals are gravid each season.

I've dealt with WC, I've been down the road of getting new hatchlings to take their first meals, I've also had outrageous vet bills run up with a single snake. I do not envy the challenge you undertook. This is not the route to go to make a profit like you had thought.

I would also be leary since you were advertising hets but yet have not bred them. You would need serious documentation from trusted breeders that they supplied the hets you were selling.

This is not a make it rich industry.

No I haven't gotten a hatchling to take it's first meal b/c I've never hatched eggs before. I already posted the documentation earlier in this thread.