(Inguiry)Rare Pythons

[rarepythons]

Cathy,

Apparently since your the main person responding this morning and most everything you have to say is accusatory and presumptuously negative, I'm sure there is no response I can give that will make you happy with me. I'm just engaging in these forum to explain that I have no intention of scamming anyone, I'm a novice thats just getting into breeding, and I have a nice facility with legitimate animals. May I suggest you give me a call and work out the rest of your concerns with me over the phone?

On a side note, each gravid is it's own 41 qt tub and separate of each other. I do have my other morphs in the same room, but on a different level with their own separate enclosure. Maybe this is or is not enough since they are the same room, but I've been checking them frequently and there seems to be no mites, ticks, or problems.

 

[Cat_72]

It's not really presumptive, a lot of it is common sense. You have freshly WC animals in the same room as your other breeding stock???

I'd suggest reading up on quarantine, and all of the fun diseases like IBD, and all of the other parasites and general nasties....

I'm out for the day..................

 

[richardduckworth]

Chris

The website was set up with the express purpose of misleading the public into believing you were a major breeder of Ball Pythons. In essence, you are a newbie with a checkbook looking to cash in as quickly as possible. As such, you will find that selling hets is a dicey business without a rep to back it. Chris Johnson and a few others made sure of that. Rather than earn that rep, you have decided to manufacture one. Search this site with the name Joe Capone and you will see how well that mindset works.

Your past is also an issue. Since you already have two criminal convictions to your credit at the tender age of 25, it is amusing that your next business endeavor was to manufacture portable grow houses. I particularly like the models on your site that are disguised as speakers and PC's. I am sure a lot of people like to keep their tomato plants on the down low.

This is a testimonial on your own site



Nice to see you consider someone using your product to grow a plant that has been labeled a controlled substance in several states to be a positive selling point.

Chris, you are the poster child for exactly what this industry does not need. Another fast buck artist looking to make a killing.

woah, for the record, salvia divinorum is still sold in concentrate form online and is legal in over 40 states, while Lowes and Home Depot still sell salvia divinorum plants in just as many areas.

sure, it will be illegal eventually because the tobacco companies don't want anything cutting into their profits. they'd make sure paper was illegal if you were smoking it.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

The guy is obviously VERY new. and dosnt know too much about how things work in this business. Hes still here attempting to answer questions.. so lets not run him off if hes willing to work with everyone on this.

Hows about teaching him the RIGHT way to do things, and help the guy get off to a better start with this, since it sounds like hes gonna be here for a bit. ( if not.. hes not. in a few years or months. but wouldnt it be more.. what.. prudent? to teach him how to do things right than run the guy off with little information, and leave him as a possible problem, instead of an asset?*possibly?* ) Sure.. im probably really going out on a limb here, but come on. everyone does start somewhere.

Chris. im going to say, for the time being... you sound fairly legit with the ball pythons. Albeit. very new and naive as to how things work in the reptile/ball python industry/hobby.

1) if you recieve W/c animals, or... any new animals Quarantine is a must. Absolute. 60 days i believe is the minimum and anywhere beyond that is much much better. Since they are Wild caught... any time longer than that would be much better.

2) Can you post the paperwork you have from said breeders that what animals you do have are what you say they are? ( Documentation on here is key! there are TONS of scammers, and its hard to believe just words! youre also new... if youre willing to prove yourself in this, and bear with the Third degree, you might just do alright here.)

3) Understand that there is alot of ASSuming that goes on here on the BOI, thats because a new scammer pops up a few times a month... this stuff gets old. fast. and usually its all the same old song and dance. Im giving you the benefit of a doubt here. you seem to have stuck with this, and tried explaining things ( even admitting to mistakes made when you were what? 19? 20?) Hopefully you learned from those mistakes.

4) Who are the people in that picture of the group? This is something that is important, so please answer it.

The other stuff... seriously, if its a legit business theres really nothing more to say.
Sure we all might "know" what some of that stuff can be USED for, but really... come on. its the people using the product in the end.
Unless the guy is some crack dealer selling to kids on the street.. none of the extra fluff has any real importance to this thread. Sorry, thats just how i feel.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

woah, for the record, salvia divinorum is still sold in concentrate form online and is legal in over 40 states, while Lowes and Home Depot still sell salvia divinorum plants in just as many areas.

sure, it will be illegal eventually because the tobacco companies don't want anything cutting into their profits. they'd make sure paper was illegal if you were smoking it.

My point Richard is that his claims of steering people away from his product if they are growing illegal plants is ridiculous. Do you think anyone announces that when they purchase? He has one testimonial on his site from a customer who bought the item specifically to grow a plant that is banned in several countries as a dangerous narcotic. It is well on it's way to being banned nationwide as well. If you were selling his product, would you post that testimonial?

He sells units that are camouflaged as furniture as well. Why would that be Richard?

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

if they are growing illegal plants

Do you think anyone announces that when they purchase?

He has one testimonial on his site from a customer who bought the item specifically to grow a plant that is banned in several countries as a dangerous narcotic.

lets read those three lines again.

Is he personally purposely selling those products FOR THAT purpose? Can you PROVE that? ( sure, one can assume.. and sure, you MIGHT be right... But unless you can prove it, it really is a moot point )

Wade in that territory all you like, but if he is LEGALLY able to sell his product, there isnt much that can be said.

Is this thread about ball pythons and a new business, or hydroponic plant growing devices and war on drugs?

 

[richardduckworth]

My point Richard is that his claims of steering people away from his product if they are growing illegal plants is ridiculous. Do you think anyone announces that when they purchase? He has one testimonial on his site from a customer who bought the item specifically to grow a plant that is banned in several countries as a dangerous narcotic. It is well on it's way to being banned nationwide as well. If you were selling his product, would you post that testimonial?

He sells units that are camouflaged as furniture as well. Why would that be Richard?

i give up, i forgot it's the BOI where anything goes.

this was supposed to be a place where FACTS were sorted out, a type of DUE PROCESS even.

between 50-70% of americans get high at least once a year. in certain industries where drug testing is nearly non-existent, over 90% of employees are regular drug users. i'm in the construction industry. the people who build all these new houses are potheads. we're talking 3 joints while at work. it's annoying but when the millionaire owners, builders, etc, are all toking up with them, well, that's america. illegal or not, there are millions of pot smokers out there in this country. if he wants to sell to them BUT say he refuses it, then he's living the american dream, which is to make money any way you can. he's doing what thousands of corporations have already done this morning.

facts will bring him down if you wanna go that route. thing is, as long as there are all these dope smokers, there will be all these hydroponic companies willing to cater to them.

are you really concerned with that industry or is it the snake selling you're worried about?

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

The guy is obviously VERY new. and dosnt know too much about how things work in this business. Hes still here attempting to answer questions.. so lets not run him off if hes willing to work with everyone on this.

Hows about teaching him the RIGHT way to do things, and help the guy get off to a better start with this, since it sounds like hes gonna be here for a bit. ( if not.. hes not. in a few years or months. but wouldnt it be more.. what.. prudent? to teach him how to do things right than run the guy off with little information, and leave him as a possible problem, instead of an asset?*possibly?* ) Sure.. im probably really going out on a limb here, but come on. everyone does start somewhere.

Chris. im going to say, for the time being... you sound fairly legit with the ball pythons. Albeit. very new and naive as to how things work in the reptile/ball python industry/hobby.

1) if you recieve W/c animals, or... any new animals Quarantine is a must. Absolute. 60 days i believe is the minimum and anywhere beyond that is much much better. Since they are Wild caught... any time longer than that would be much better.

2) Can you post the paperwork you have from said breeders that what animals you do have are what you say they are? ( Documentation on here is key! there are TONS of scammers, and its hard to believe just words! youre also new... if youre willing to prove yourself in this, and bear with the Third degree, you might just do alright here.)

3) Understand that there is alot of ASSuming that goes on here on the BOI, thats because a new scammer pops up a few times a month... this stuff gets old. fast. and usually its all the same old song and dance. Im giving you the benefit of a doubt here. you seem to have stuck with this, and tried explaining things ( even admitting to mistakes made when you were what? 19? 20?) Hopefully you learned from those mistakes.

4) Who are the people in that picture of the group? This is something that is important, so please answer it.

The other stuff... seriously, if its a legit business theres really nothing more to say.
Sure we all might "know" what some of that stuff can be USED for, but really... come on. its the people using the product in the end.
Unless the guy is some crack dealer selling to kids on the street.. none of the extra fluff has any real importance to this thread. Sorry, thats just how i feel.

Alicia

Did you have a chance to peruse his Rarepythons.com site before it was pulled down? It was a blatant attempt at misrepresentation. It wasn't salesmanship. There was nothing legit about it. The guy owns 4 or 5 morph and het animals and was claiming to be a major player. The site was based on false statements and swiped photos.

All i see is a bargain basement version of Joe Capone with a better vocabulary

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Alicia

Did you have a chance to peruse his Rarepythons.com site before it was pulled down? It was a blatant attempt at misrepresentation. It wasn't salesmanship. There was nothing legit about it. The guy owns 4 or 5 morph and het animals and was claiming to be a major player. The site was based on false statements and swiped photos.

All i see is a bargain basement version of Joe Capone with a better vocabulary

Unfortunately no.

What sort of misrepresentation are we talking about?
Anyone get screenshots?

So far, ive seen him admit to having however many wildcaught animals, all gravid, and a few animals that are morph/het for whatever. With documentation he says he has.

Im willing to give the guy the benefit of a doubt... if he can continue to back himself up and answer questions. Im not for the witch hunt, nail em to the wall thing without at least SOME runway to go on. People screw up... especially when they come into this with little knowledge and hoping to make a buck. Not going to nail them for that, but im not going to applaud it. BUT. i feel they should be educated and show the legit way to go about things.

 

[rarepythons]

The guy is obviously VERY new. and dosnt know too much about how things work in this business. Hes still here attempting to answer questions.. so lets not run him off if hes willing to work with everyone on this.

Hows about teaching him the RIGHT way to do things, and help the guy get off to a better start with this, since it sounds like hes gonna be here for a bit. ( if not.. hes not. in a few years or months. but wouldnt it be more.. what.. prudent? to teach him how to do things right than run the guy off with little information, and leave him as a possible problem, instead of an asset?*possibly?* ) Sure.. im probably really going out on a limb here, but come on. everyone does start somewhere.

Chris. im going to say, for the time being... you sound fairly legit with the ball pythons. Albeit. very new and naive as to how things work in the reptile/ball python industry/hobby.

1) if you recieve W/c animals, or... any new animals Quarantine is a must. Absolute. 60 days i believe is the minimum and anywhere beyond that is much much better. Since they are Wild caught... any time longer than that would be much better.

2) Can you post the paperwork you have from said breeders that what animals you do have are what you say they are? ( Documentation on here is key! there are TONS of scammers, and its hard to believe just words! youre also new... if youre willing to prove yourself in this, and bear with the Third degree, you might just do alright here.)

3) Understand that there is alot of ASSuming that goes on here on the BOI, thats because a new scammer pops up a few times a month... this stuff gets old. fast. and usually its all the same old song and dance. Im giving you the benefit of a doubt here. you seem to have stuck with this, and tried explaining things ( even admitting to mistakes made when you were what? 19? 20?) Hopefully you learned from those mistakes.

4) Who are the people in that picture of the group? This is something that is important, so please answer it.

The other stuff... seriously, if its a legit business theres really nothing more to say.
Sure we all might "know" what some of that stuff can be USED for, but really... come on. its the people using the product in the end.
Unless the guy is some crack dealer selling to kids on the street.. none of the extra fluff has any real importance to this thread. Sorry, thats just how i feel.

1.) On the issue of quarantine for animals I was not aware it was of such importance. I will in the future quarantine any incoming animals. For now I've already made the mistake of having them all in the same room. At this point would it be in my best interests to take some of the snakes to a vet? Is there a specific sign I should check for daily? They all 'seem' in good health, but if you have any suggestions I'm all ears.

2.)Yes, I'm scanning them in right now....

http://www.rarepythons.com/jc2052.jpg
http://www.rarepythons.com/jc1051.jpg

I only have the JC sheet here and I'll need to run home to check for additional paperwork.

3.) Yes I very much learned from them, and I was young and very stupid. I am older, I have a wife and kids, and I couldn't afford to take those kind of chances, which is a mood point considering I very much learned my lesson.


4.) In the group of people in the store picture (not Galapagos Bio Trip from my earlier College years) from left to right:

Kurt Covino (ex employee-currently a teacher at a local HS)
Carmen Tonellato (one of my best friends I did competitive sports with from age 10-18)
Christopher Casacci (Myself)
Daniel Casacci (my father who has always helped me with my business and been very supportive)
Jessica Skalarski (old neighbor and I my cashier for about a year awhile back. PS: I can't remember how to exactly spell her last name, it's been several years).
Michael Ashoon (I have to look up how to spell his last name, he was one of Carmens friends and helped me paint when I first got my old place setup. I really didn't know him that well and it was some time ago. Last I heard Carmen mentioned he got into some narcotics trouble and went to jail, but that was over a year ago..so right now I'm not sure.)



Anything else ...please let me know

 

[varnyard]

Well I am not so fast at the trusting here, and we are all welcome to say what we think. IMO, there is just way too much shade here.

Chris - Chris.
Same area as the first Chris.
Ball pythons (Hets W/Cs) Same as well.
KS and we all know Chris was 110% KS
Went from making fake DLs to rich man.
Selling animals just to make a fast buck, is this what a real legit businessman does? Sounds like a used car dealer to me.
I will also add creating devices to make more drugs, so people do drugs, well so it is fine to be part of that market? These same drugs grown in his devices might be offered to your children, is that still OK?

And why did his website go poof, what was he trying to hide?

I will also say this; it reeks of fish and has a very familiar ring with his responses here.
Sorry, but I am not so fast to trust him. And the thought has crossed my mind he might be playing dumb here, that is not something I would put past the first Chris, I mean I am sure everyone remembers the death bed. JMHO.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

1.) On the issue of quarantine for animals I was not aware it was of such importance. I will in the future quarantine any incoming animals. For now I've already made the mistake of having them all in the same room. At this point would it be in my best interests to take some of the snakes to a vet? Is there a specific sign I should check for daily? They all 'seem' in good health, but if you have any suggestions I'm all ears.

Well, since youre probably in the future going to be breeding these animals, and quite possibly selling them, you should have fecals done by a qualified vet to check for internal parasites. and have them treated as needed. Talk with other breeders whom you are friends with as well, to learn about their practices and such.

you dont have to do it all at once, that would be crazy, but getting another room that is quarantined from the entire collection, and moving cleaned animals to that room little by little, and not cross contaminating them ( work with the clean animals first!) * unless you can afford a massive group of animals to be checked and cleaned of course * would be a good start into making sure your collection is truly clean.

It sounds like a lot of work, and really expensive... and it is, but to many of the keepers here its something thats really important. Especially when purchasing new animals.
Having healthy animals, and selling them as such is important but so is representing them correctly as well. ( The TSE thread is something that might take days to read, but its worthwhile... and youll truly understand where many people come from after reading that thread.. and why they are so wary of new large scale stuff. None of the fear, or skepticism is without warrant!)

if you really work hard at producing quality animals, and representing them correctly and accurately * most important*, you could probably do fairly well.

Just don't be disappointed if you don't make a lot of money working with them either! not a whole lot of people really make a profit on them, let alone break even in most cases. * you're lucky if you break even on vet care, feeding, substrate and other such things*

 

[rarepythons]

Well I am not so fast at the trusting here, and we are all welcome to say what we think. IMO, there is just way too much shade here.

Chris - Chris.
Same area as the first Chris.
Ball pythons (Hets W/Cs) Same as well.
KS and we all know Chris was 110% KS
Went from making fake DLs to rich man.
Selling animals just to make a fast buck, is this what a real legit businessman does? Sounds like a used car dealer to me.
I will also add creating devices to make more drugs, so people do drugs, well so it is fine to be part of that market? These same drugs grown in his devices might be offered to your children, is that still OK?

And why did his website go poof, what was he trying to hide?

I will also say this; it reeks of fish and has a very familiar ring with his responses here.
Sorry, but I am not so fast to trust him. And the thought has crossed my mind he might be playing dumb here, that is not something I would put past the first Chris, I mean I am sure everyone remembers the death bed. JMHO.

There is a big difference between not trusting me and making accusations that I am or are associated with some other person. I removed the website for the time being as a courtesy b/c I had other peoples pics on the site, which I apologized for, but I need to strip the whole thing, right down to the flash header. I thought that was the most appropriate course of action. Do you disagree?

On a side note I have no idea what everyone is referring to with this other Chris...would anyone care to fill me in? I'm being accused of association with someone I don't even know the story behind. I haven't been in this industry that long...whats the deal with this guy?

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Well I am not so fast at the trusting here, and we are all welcome to say what we think. IMO, there is just way too much shade here.

Chris - Chris.
Same area as the first Chris.
Ball pythons (Hets W/Cs) Same as well.
KS and we all know Chris was 110% KS
Went from making fake DLs to rich man.
Selling animals just to make a fast buck, is this what a real legit businessman does? Sounds like a used car dealer to me.
I will also add creating devices to make more drugs, so people do drugs, well so it is fine to be part of that market? These same drugs grown in his devices might be offered to your children, is that still OK?

And why did his website go poof, what was he trying to hide?

I will also say this; it reeks of fish and has a very familiar ring with his responses here.
Sorry, but I am not so fast to trust him. And the thought has crossed my mind he might be playing dumb here, that is not something I would put past the first Chris, I mean I am sure everyone remembers the death bed. JMHO.

Totally understandable bobby. Totally.

But. hes sitting here continuing to provide proof, and paperwork/photos and is even willing to allow people to go visit. So, keep asking your questions... so long as hes still willing to prove himself and work with this.. i say, give the guy that shot at least.

I truly do understand the seriousness of this whole thing, but at the same time, i cant help but feel that things should be done fairly. Im willing to put my neck on that line... if i feel im doing what is right. He hasnt run off. Most generally do.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

On a side note I have no idea what everyone is referring to with this other Chris...would anyone care to fill me in? I'm being accused of association with someone I don't even know the story behind. I haven't been in this industry that long...whats the deal with this guy?

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78572&highlight=TSE*

Its going to take forever to read, but truly, read it all. You will understand where people are coming from

 

[SPJ]

I tend to think he should be given the benefit of the doubt.
Sounds like a start up breeder who was fed a line of BS about how much money can be made off WC gravids and attempted to start a breeding operation.
Who knows, maybe something will pop out of the eggs like Billingsly has had happen and it will pay off. Unlikely but possible.
He is not responding in the similair fashion as a scammer usually does. It seems that he may be broadening his business ventures but took the hard route with WC gravids. Man, I would not want to deal with 200 WC females that just dropped clutches. You have got your work cut out for you.
I did not see the website but all scammers eventually show their true colors. Let's try to give this guy a chance and not ASSume he is a scammer. I do not think he has the handbook based on his responses.

 

[rarepythons]

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78572&highlight=TSE*

Its going to take forever to read, but truly, read it all. You will understand where people are coming from

well that will definitely take some time to go through in depth, but basically the jist of it is that:

This guy seemed OK in the beginning, many people vouched for him, he started to get delayed shipments, pretended to be sick and blamed it on the weather, then shipped some animals out. The animals were 'hets' with full paperwork and it was ALL bogus. He screwed countless people out of trades and money. He ran with the cash and the cops are after him....

does that pretty much sum it up?

Well if the concern is that I am associated with this person then I simply won't sell any hets. I hold back all my hets I purchased from other breeders and leave it at that for a few years until I earn some credibility. I'll only sell homozygous animals or normals, with pictures that show a RarePythons logo in front of each animal.

Anyone that wants to consider buying from me can use a CC so they can initiate a charge back if I don't provide the animal within 72 hours to their door after receiving payment. I'm in the buffalo area, but I've gotten live shipments in with temps as low as -10F with proper heat packs, so I will ship right away regardless of the weather and make sure it's shipped properly.

Anyone have a problem with this or is willing to make any other suggestions?

 

[SPJ]

Anyone have a problem with this or is willing to make any other suggestions?

Just be honest and your business will grow.

Too many shady people pop up thinking they can make a quick buck screwing people over. The reptile community is closeknit and cynical.

If you are an honest seller, word will spread. If you prove you are not to be trusted, word will also spread.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Anyone that wants to consider buying from me can use a CC so they can initiate a charge back if I don't provide the animal within 72 hours to their door after receiving payment. I'm in the buffalo area, but I've gotten live shipments in with temps as low as -10F with proper heat packs, so I will ship right away regardless of the weather and make sure it's shipped properly.

Anyone have a problem with this or is willing to make any other suggestions?

Ship when you feel its safe for the animals. You dont have to ship if its far too cold out unless you feel your packing ability is adequate.

You dont have to go extreme, you can say animals are possible hets, if they are. Just represent them correctly. If you arent sure about an animals lineage, say so.

Its just all about honesty

 

[HerpOly]

I may be skeptical, but to pick up the gist of the TSE thing, AND post a response in twenty minutes that thoroughly outlines the saga without prior knowledge seems almost superhuman to me.