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Inquiry for Sunshinedragons.Com - Scar for sale?!?!?!

Rebel Dragons

Rebel Dragons

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Bruce I was hoping you could answer a few questions for a few of us.

What is Scar's actual age??? From what research I have done and after talking to a few other breeders, I estimate it at approx 5 yrs. Do you even know who Chris purchased Scar from??? (I do.) If you look at the pictures of Scar, he was already an adult in Sept 2002 according to the archived pages of jersey dragons.com

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.jerseydragons.com

Also concerning the photo's........ Why are there no recent pictures of Scar anywhere??? I have dug up a few pictures of him taken by Chris (from back in the day) and have attached them so everyone will know what the real Scar looks like. Can you provide a new picture for reference? One with no backlight - therefore no excuses. :)

Why is he for sale??? You stated not long ago that this particular dragon will never be offered for sale, since he is one of your “best breeders”. Also how can you say he is a “stud” by just breeding him 5 times in the last two years - when it is possible for a real “stud” dragon to mate that many times in a few days and not be bred out... Where do you get your info. from?
And why at such a high price for a lizard well past his prime??? :shrug01:


Oh, and on the ReptiBid Q&A section you mention having been a breeder for 10 years...... Yet on your archived website you claim to have started in '93. I don't know who is confused more. Me or you.......... :shrug01:
__________
Question about this item from (buyer): Spawnpala
Post on: Sat May 21, 01:31 AM
I can find 2 pics. what a joke.

Response on this item from (seller): Milosnow
Post on: Sat May 21, 04:45 AM
We have him in with all our other Breeders. We have been Breeding for ten years and are not a one trick pony. How many should we have? should we be splashing him all over our web site ? How tacky!

Chris bought him and possibly keeps albums of all his Breeders????


Response on this item from (seller): Milosnow
Post on: Mon May 23, 06:19 AM
First we apologize for not doing business in the manner which you believe is appropriate. Secondly most of the Reds we have and dragons in General are from Sunshinedragons. We received no Red Females from Chris(Some Orange), And three Core Male Breeders, Scar, Lucifer his son, and Flame.the majority of the 50 breeders we have are from our Sunshinedragons Colony. We have been privately breeding for 10 years and just went to the public last year….

….As a footnote we have been breeding for ten (10) years privately and mainly selling to Breeders, or private customers. We went to the public January 2004 (slightly before) we started our web sight, and went direct to the public to provide the best quality Breeders, or Pets Possible in all morphs, and quality Genetics.
__________


All of the dragons listed on your breeders page except for maybe two are animals/crosses done by other breeders in the recent past.

In 10 or 12 or whatever..... years of business, exactly what lines or color morphs have you YOURSELF produced??? Have you yourself produced anything at SunshineDragons prior to your buy out of JerseyDragons??? Anyone can go around and cherry pick dragons. Point blank......What in the "Sunshine Dragons Colony" is not a product of another breeders work???

The archives show sub-adults available, but they were also crosses done by other breeders.
It wasn’t until 4.15.04 that you even had any hatchlings available through Sunshine Dragons http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.sunshinedragons.com

(Looks like a “one trick pony” to me!)

As far as breeding “privately” and selling your offspring to other “Breeders” before going public - EXACTLY what other breeders did you sell your dragons to??? I’m not meaning DBN or Mystical since these were recent - but the breeders that felt Sunshine Dragons were in such demand from 1993-2003 as quoted on your website? Surely you can name a few… I really don’t think they would mind as long as it’s the truth.

Please leave out the quotes from your 2004-5 customers. They are totally irrelevant to this post… plus they just unnecessarily take up bandwidth.

Last but not least........... I have been on your mailing list for almost 2 years now and still can't figure out how I got on. I can find nowhere to join up or opt off on your site.

Any answers to the above questions would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Good Question!

I'm glad someone had the nerve to ask these questions. I was wondering alot of the same things, but didn't quite know how to approach the subject. Some honest answers would be very nice.

Tere Salazar
 
I'm curious as to why you needed to ask these questions here? A private e-mail would have probably gotten the answers to your questions sooner than a post on the B.O.I. ripe with venom and accusatory undertones.

I don't know either of you, but looks to me like you are looking to start trouble with a competitor.

Not sure which is a more cut throat community, Bearded Dragon breeders or Chameleon breeders......... And while I am aware that not all Bearded Dragon and Chameleon breeders act this way, some of the worst examples I have seen of competitor rivalry and mudslinging originated in those 2 communities.
 
First off the reason it was brought to the BOI was because Bruce has been avoiding questions concerning this situation. If you go to the ReptiBid auction for Scar and read the Q&A section you may see more clearly how he constantly dodges around directly asked questions. Especially questions concerning current photo's of scar.

For an asking price of $2,500.00 I would hope he could at least answer a few questions and provide a few pictures. With all the scams and BS lately I don't feel I was out of line in posting an inquiry, on the Board of Inquiry. I am just asking some direct questions of him and his business. So far he has offered nothing but vague comments on another forum and answers filled with inconsistencies. To me this seems shady. If I meant the post to be venomous in nature I would not have asked any questions but simply made accusations and cut throat comments.

Another comment by Bruce dodging the picture issue is below.
"Scar may be gone before it makes sense to take a picture? "

For $2500.00 does it make sense to ask for a picture?????

http://www.reptileauction.com/cgi-b...egory=a_lizard_beardeddragons&item=1117656517

I am not the only one asking these questions. I am just the first to bring it to the BOI.

I personally am not competition for Bruce. Never have been and don't plan to be. I operate on a very small scale. No where near Sunshines. It is a small hobby for me and not a business as it is for Bruce.

From here on out I am just going to sit back and wait for Bruce to answer. I have no hard feelings against the guy I would just like to see some straight answers.
 
What?

Keep your Bearded Dragon soap opera in YOUR Bearded Dragon forums, where they belong, where they are relevant, and where people actually give a Cr@p.

Dave
 
You may be correct Dave. I guess we will wait and see.

I felt this was an issue for the BOI. If webslave feels he needs to move it, then so be it.

Thanks for your animated opinion,
 
Competition?

I personally will never be of threat to Sunshine Dragons. I am nothing more than a hobbyist with dreams of hatching one clutch!

I do feel, however, that for an asking price of $2500, some questions need to be answered. Where do people go when they want questions answered and the person asked the question is avoiding directly answering? The BOI.

If someone has nothing to hide, answering questions honestly shouldn't be a problem.
 
Sunshinedragons said:
We will not deviate from our company policy of not responding to innuendos, accusations or assumptions in the BOI. Should anyone really want any information feel free to E-Mail us at [email protected].
Click to expand...
I suppose that's you choice but it does give the appearance that you have something to hide. Maybe you do not, but that policy would be enough to stop me from doing business with you, if I were so inclined in the first place.
 
I don't know, I find it hard to see what Sunshine dragons has done wrong here.

It is one thing if the original poster had been considering doing business with, or was in the middle of a deal with them and something had gone wrong.

The way I see it, the only thing Sunshine Dragons is guilty of is not answering questions to Rebel Dragons satisfaction.

I read the reptibid Q&A that prompted this post. The first question out of the gate was accusatory. When it was answered, the reply from the original poster was that there were "only 2 pictures, what a joke". Then that poster went on to tell Sunshine dragons how he THOUGHT they should market the animal, along with some rhetoric about how the price was too high, again their opinion, and inferring that Sunshine Dragons had some hidden agenda. Then a few other posters smelled blood in the water and piled on, nit picking all of Sunshines answers.

The mudslinging then carried over to the BOI where the original poster decided to openly question Sunshine based on their own OPINION of the situation, presented as facts, and to provide quoted answers from Sunshine Dragons out of context and without the original questions included. All to further whatever their agenda may be, all the while emphasizing that they were simply a small time hobby breeder and had no agenda. Which leads me back to my original question for the person that started this post; Why was it necessary to bring this to the BOI, rather than handle it via private e-mail?

So after having their motives for selling the dragon, as well as how they were selling it and how they were running their business attacked on Reptibid, then "calling him out" here on the BOI, I can see why Sunshine Dragons may have gone on the defensive in regards to this poster, and chosen not to respond.
 
Sunshinedragons said:
We will not deviate from our company policy of not responding to innuendos, accusations or assumptions in the BOI. Should anyone really want any information feel free to E-Mail us at [email protected].
Click to expand...

OK, little Timmy. Just remember the 5 rules of shady business.........

Dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge.



Gecko_Den said:
Why was it necessary to bring this to the BOI, rather than handle it via private e-mail?
QUOTE]


Because suprise, suprise they don't answer private emails either..........

I posted this for myself and a few other individuals. We have all had our questions dodged and our inquiries ignored. Something is shady here. Many things have come out into the open recently.

Namely where are current pictures of Scar???? Everyone who asks gets an excuse. For $2500.00 you don't want to take a picture? Smells funny to me.........

OK Sam, suppose you have "Jimbo the gecko" for sale. He is older, bred out, but has a reputation in the community. Now you want to sell him for $2500.00 based only on his reputation.
Would you provide pictures of "Jimbo" for people who asked? Or would you dodge the picture issue because maybe a picture would expose that "Jimbo" is old, bred out, and not in the best shape overall............ That is what appears to be going on here along with a few other issues. Those being ignored as well.
Click to expand...
 
I asked questions, they were ignored.
End of story.
Sunshine won't answer them on the BOI.
Fine with me.
No more need to post anything here on the BOI.

Good luck with your sale SunshineDragons
 
Check Your E-mail We answeer every E- mail within 24 hours, What time frame would you

Once Again We answer every single E-mail recieved with 24 hours.

Every E-mail.

Check your E-mails. Once again We will be willing to respond to any question, or issue by E-mail. We appologize for running our business in a manner you may not agree with.
 
Subject: Re: Inquiry-Sure yet a lot of questions, alot of answers. Appreciate the E-mail
Date: 5/25/2005 8:50:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time
From: SunshineDragons
Reply To:
To: [email protected]
CC: SunshineDragons
BCC:
Sent on:


Sent from the Internet (Details)
Internet Address Card Attached
Hi, there are a lot of questions, therefore bear with the long answers. We appreciate you E-mailing us. Feel Free to anytime. Please Read to the bottom for we believe we answer all you questions. you may have to skip some of the original E-mail to see our responses
 
Yes, I did receive an email. I am reading it now.

Thank you for your quick responce,
 
Rebel Dragons said:
Gecko_Den said:
Why was it necessary to bring this to the BOI, rather than handle it via private e-mail?
Click to expand...


Because suprise, suprise they don't answer private emails either..........

I posted this for myself and a few other individuals. We have all had our questions dodged and our inquiries ignored. Something is shady here. Many things have come out into the open recently.

Namely where are current pictures of Scar???? Everyone who asks gets an excuse. For $2500.00 you don't want to take a picture? Smells funny to me.........

OK Sam, suppose you have "Jimbo the gecko" for sale. He is older, bred out, but has a reputation in the community. Now you want to sell him for $2500.00 based only on his reputation.
Would you provide pictures of "Jimbo" for people who asked? Or would you dodge the picture issue because maybe a picture would expose that "Jimbo" is old, bred out, and not in the best shape overall............ That is what appears to be going on here along with a few other issues. Those being ignored as well.
Click to expand...


If that was the issue you had, that the bearded dragon in question was old, bred out, etc... and was being misrepresented by Sunshine Dragons than that's what you should have stated. Instead you attempted to spin a web of intrigue and drama and ask veiled questions while inferring that Sunshine dragons was "shady".

Of course, had you actually come out in your original post and stated that Sunshine Dragons is misrepresenting their animals, I would of asked where your proof was that this was true.

So far you have provided your opinion, represented as fact. Started a thread on the BOI that doesn't belong here, as per webslaves "rules for posting on the BOI", and dragged Sunshine Dragons name through the mud. All the while failing to provide a reason, were you intending to bid on this animal? It sure didn't appear that way based on the reptibid Q&A, as well as your posts here. So I ask you, What was the purpose of this thread, and do you have some sort of agenda, or personal problem with Sunshine Dragons?
 
Rebel Dragons said:
OK, little Timmy. Just remember the 5 rules of shady business.........

Dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge.
Click to expand...

You know what I find funnier than what you just wrote Mike? You never even bothered to post this inquiry of yours on the Reptile Better Business Board which is connected via links to Reptibid.

I dont think your trying to save a soul from possibly being ripped off or uncover the truth as much as you are trying so very hard to be "somebody" on fauna.
 
Thanks for your email Jonathan. I appreciate it.

Chuck I am not a "somebody" here. Never claimed to be.

My questions were answered. Not much more to say.

Thank you,
 
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