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Inquiry: MKR: Morph King Reptiles

Yo dumbass, er evAn, I misspelled your name by MISTAKE.

You've got a hell of a chip on your shoulder and I think it's for the very reason mentioned above.

Joe and Wes vaulted to a place that you, with whomever's money you work with as I am fairly certain YOU are the breeding end of YOUR arrangement like Wes is with Joe, only wish you were at.

You're jealous and all butthurt over it and, since you like to bitch and PRETEND that YOU are the voice of The Brotherhood, you get all mouthy until someone who will stand up to you says, "Hey, dumbass, what are you saying and how did you ever arrive at that conclusion?"

I would be willing to be a shiny new pied that you are back here. Your ego won't let you let it rest.

Will it evin?
 
Mooing Tricycle said:
y'know its sad that this all resorts to namecalling. This shouldnt be going on AT ALL here.
Click to expand...
The door to the left swings shut REALLY fast. Try not to let it hit you on the way out.
 
Think what you will of MKR

But for about the third or fourth time their business ethics have been referred to as "illegal", "almost illegal", etc:

What really bothers me are the people that persuade new people to buy into the market ,they sell them high dollar snakes while telling them grandiose ideas of how they will make money.THAT is unethical.And border line illeagle.
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Folks, the U.S Congress has at times passed laws regarding "dumping" of foreign steel etc on the U.S. market at costs below production, etc. There are also plenty of Securities and Exchange Laws governing disclosure and investing in a company, which do not apply here as MKR was selling product, not interests in itself. To suggest that the actions of MKR, while unethical to many, are "borderline illegal" etc is folly. Maybe we could cite the specific applicable statute, and the specific action by MKR that violates (or almost violates) that law ?
 
Chameleon Company said:
But for about the third or fourth time their business ethics have been referred to as "illegal", "almost illegal", etc:


Folks, the U.S Congress has at times passed laws regarding "dumping" of foreign steel etc on the U.S. market at costs below production, etc. There are also plenty of Securities and Exchange Laws governing disclosure and investing in a company, which do not apply here as MKR was selling product, not interests in itself. To suggest that the actions of MKR, while unethical to many, are "borderline illegal" etc is folly. Maybe we could cite the specific applicable statute, and the specific action by MKR that violates (or almost violates) that law ?
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Ohhh crap. This hurts. Damn. It's worse than hot cheese stuck to the roof of your mouth on the date with the cute chick so you can't wimp out and spit the molten cheese out on the table kind of pain.

Jim is right. I even tried to give you good karma for being so right, but I was denied.

Hmmmm, are you not as right as I write you are? Hmmmm and hmmmm some more.

No, I must be correct in my initial surmise of your rightness, yes, that's right; you are.

Ok, good job and well said.

Right?
 
Chameleon Company said:
Folks, the U.S Congress has at times passed laws regarding "dumping" of foreign steel etc on the U.S. market at costs below production, etc.
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But by that logic the "cost of production" for Ball Pythons would be $0 since there are no raw materials or manufacturing costs. The founding stock animals, caging, and prey would be considered overhead just like the machinary used to produce steel products.
 
Wes,
Admittedly, I have had to agree with your take throughout this thread :) and its sister thread.

For those who have been up-in-arms about Joe's threats to "crash the gecko market", I would suggest first that he was only able to "crash" those corners of the BP morph market that he did because they were vulnerable, meaning supply was about to put significant downward pressure on price regardless of Joe. The same will happen to the gecko market with regard to supply and demand as well. Whether in bigger spurts initiated by a larger breeder, good or bad ethics regardless, or a more gradual thing, if nothing else it would be hoped that wide-eyed get-rich-quick newcomers will hedge themselves adequately from what might be learned here.
 
:) I may have but a small part to add to this conversation, but everyone is entitled to do what they wish in this market and anywhere else for that matter.

It is their snakes, their money, and what they choose to do.

It's the American Way. Freedom....

Bicker all you want, but that is the bottom line, and you CANNOT change these people's minds by bantering on the BOI about it.

Go with the flow, people.. It might actually be a nice ride!
 
B.W. writes:

But by that logic the "cost of production" for Ball Pythons would be $0 since there are no raw materials or manufacturing costs. The founding stock animals, caging, and prey would be considered overhead just like the machinary used to produce steel products.
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Pretty much agreed, and my point was to address those who referred to it a "illegal dumpng" earlier in the thread. While there are minimal production costs associated with CB BP's, the logic (or lack of it) suggests that any "dumping" statute, which is normally only enacted to protect a stateside industry against unfair foreign competition, would be completely non-applicable. By all accounts, Joe is doing just fine maintaining the stateside supply :D
 
BWSmith said:
But by that logic the "cost of production" for Ball Pythons would be $0 since there are no raw materials or manufacturing costs. The founding stock animals, caging, and prey would be considered overhead just like the machinary used to produce steel products.
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Actually this would be an incorrect way to look at it. Sorry to take this off topic, but I run a "real life" business and actually do the bookkeeping myself so I know a bit about the subject.

In a case like this the cost of the founding animals, should they exceed the threshold for expensing them in one year, would be depreciated over time. I don't know the depreciable lifespan of a ball python but let's say 10 years. Thus, if the animal cost $2000, one can expense $200/year for 10 years after which the "book value" is zero. Feeding and housing costs are expenses and can be taken in the year they are incurred, as would medical expenses and breeding expenses, though fit out of a facility would also need to be depreciated over a fixed period set by the IRS. Rent is deductible in the year paid, as are interest on a mortgage loan and real estate taxes. Brick and mortar (ie a building that you own) can be depreciated, but unless the owner is an "active" real estate investor (as opposed to a "passive" investor as defined in the IRS codes) the depreciation losses cannot be taken against ordinary income and must necessarily be carried forward.

In this example let's say a business like MKR keeps 1000 snakes and has $200,000 in total expenses including facility depreciation. Now let's assume for ease of calculations that there are 500 adult females, 200 adult males, and 300 juveniles and that the 500 females produce 2000 viable eggs. Another way to see this is the facility cost of producing each egg is $100. If we add in the $200 depreciation for the dam, and half of the $200 depreciation for the sire (assuming he fatherered two clutches), then the cost of producing a 4 egg clutch is $700 or $175 apiece.

OK, that's simplified accounting.

Now for those of you claiming this is illegal or immoral, explain to me how sellling them for $800, $500, or even $300 is dumping or unfairly competing.
 
Jim O,

STOP THAT!!! You are making my head hurt man.
 
BW, your posts in this thread have elevated you to a new level of respect in my book lol. I always had a good view of you, even though we've butted heads in the past. An old saying comes to mind....

"A fool and his money are soon parted."

Spend on, Ball-People, spend on! :D
 
DavidBeard said:
An old saying comes to mind....

"A fool and his money are soon parted."

Spend on, Ball-People, spend on! :D
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I most certainly will. I enjoy working with the species, always have, always will. If you want to call people fools for spending money on things they enjoy in life that just goes to show what a judgmental, shallow, small minded person you are in your own right.

I used to be heavy into rock climbing and own thousands of dollars worth of climbing and camping gear. Am I a fool for spending that much cash on that too? One of my best friends loves to restore old cars and has spent way more money than he ever got back out of it.... does that make him a fool too? For spedning money on something he enjoys? I know a couple people that are way into sports memorabilia, they fools too for spending a lot of money on things they enjoy?

I really dont know why so many people have such a crap attitude towards Balls and people who enjoy working with them. There are countless species that I have no desire to keep, but I dont crap on the people that do enjoy keeping them. Just exactly what is it that makes so many people want to crap on people that enjoy working with Balls? And why do you people even care?
 
If it's something you truly love and enjoy with no thought to money spent or made, then I'd say you're certainly not a fool.

But if you do it with the intent of making a whole lot of money and not caring about the animals, then you are a fool.

I hear too often from people that they are going to "make a million dollars breeding snakes." I guess they don't know they need to start with two million and work their way down!

Granted, it seems to work for a select few, but it isn't going to work for everyone. We can't all be millionaires now, can we? ;)
 
Michelle,

The same can be said about any and every small business start up out there. Be it snakes, computers, opening your own garage for auto repairs..... it dont matter. Most small businesses are going to fail. That is a statistical fact. The reptile industry most assuredly is not immune to that fact and I hope people realize that.

But I would not call someone a fool for wanting to start a small business. Of any kind. Although anyone thinking they are going to become millionaires are fooling themselves. But that dont mean they cant make a comfortable living doing something they enjoy.

Which takes me down another road..... the people that are jumping in on balls just to make a quick buck and dont really enjoy working with the animals.... those are the ones that are going to fail completely. It is the love of these animals that are going to drive you to stay up until 5 in the morning cleaning cages, feeding and watering, giving health inspections, cleaning rats racks, etc etc.... after you already put in a full work day. It is what is going to drive you to make sure your animals are taken care of better than you take care of yourself at times. That is what is going to drive you to not buy beer that week, or go to that ball game or concert or out with the fellas on a Friday night, because your really need that money to buy this that or the other for your critters.

If you dont love the animals you are working with you are just stacking the odds against yourself even more.

Ok, I am done rambling now. Good morning all!!
 
Just to get back on topic, it seems MKR made one simply common mistake that’s part of business 101, either they didn’t study the market before deciding how many adult females to breed to their Mojave males, or if they did, they were way off in their estimates. Have they done it they would have not embarked into breeding so many animals of the same morph, they would have spread the risk among other variants. Maybe they did have a beef with someone and they used the Mojaves as an excuse to get to him…not good. But what happened more than likely is that they were overstocked and that they had to sell before the animals became a financial burden to their business.

Regards.
 
So now we are chastising David for using this adage ?

"A fool and his money are soon parted."
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Congrats David ! I always did want to know who thought it up !!

A bit more serious, the adage does apply to many of the opinions expressed here regarding people's upended income expectations for the BP market. I would suggest that many paid inflated prices for their breeders in the mistaken belief that it was a good investment. Lets not blame David for the adage.

As for small businesses that fail, or mountain climbing equipment, I do not think the failure of the businesses, or the equipment gathering dust now, have anything in common with the frustration of the BP enthusiasts here ...... unless the small business was a beanie baby store, and you were scaling cliffs with gold-panning equipment :D
 
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