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Inquiry: MKR: Morph King Reptiles

shrap said:
Oh so what. I got past verbal threats and name calling years ago. People can talk all they want. Knock yourself out. If I got bent out of shape over every name or threat I have heard I would have pretzels envious.

Honestly man, let it go. MKR is their own worse enemy. You are not adding to there troubles at all. Nor are you benefiting yourself any.

Big doody head..... :)

:iagree:
 
Seamus Haley said:
I'm just going to toss around a bit of a hypothetical here. It's some thoughts, nothing more, nothing less really.

Joe Capone, the unknown quality, has some money and some ideas and approaches Wes Harris, who has a smallish but positive reputation and some genuine knowledge about reptile husbandry. Joe uses his money to purchase a very large number of animals from a large number of established breeders, purchases on a scale that would almost certainly require some fairly substantial contact and likely includes discussions about things like market saturation and some hints at price... setting...

Wes produces animals using Joe's money, enough animals so that there's difficulty selling them quickly. The intended return on some of the investments isn't happening quickly, the market is reanalyzed and prices are dropped; there may at this point have been some growing animosity between Joe and a number of people he purchased from and has subsequently condemned. Their "market value" was too high for him to move his animals at, his reprices animals undercut them by a signifigant margin. A whole lot of basement and hobbiest breeders who thought they had some kind of surefire thing going on saw their potential profit seeming to leave their investment and started crying. What they seem to fail to realize is that their animals wouldn't have moved any better at the artificially maintained higher prices either and they would have had just as much trouble getting a return on their investment. Still, they get loud in their displeasure and Joe shows up in a fighting mood; this will influence how he is seen, how his business decisions are characterized and how he as an individual views his competition.

Sometime in the middle of that, he forms an association with reptileauctions and reptileforums. MKR is basically Joe's money and loud mouth... and Wes Harris' hard work... MKR banners appear on those sites, MKR animals are used as contest prizes, there are forum sponserships and Wes Harris takes an active role answering ball python questions. I strongly suspect that it will be important to remember that, as of the time these associations formed, Joe hadn't gotten loud or started throwing around his egomaniacal weight. AS things started to come to a head... well, yeah, some things were deleted on reptileforums when they got out of hand. It's not the BOI, it's not TRR's old war room and anything that's antagonistic and not family friendly dissapears fast, regardless of who it's aimed at. The target happened to be a forum sponser and advertiser but I know for a fact (having gotten my angry up over there myself at a non-sponser non-staff nobody) that they just pull any posts that cross certain lines.

Now Joe sees that and HE decides he "owns" the forums. Given the amount of money I suspect he invested in advertising based on the banner ads, the forum sponserships and his half hour used car salesman style "TV show" that's hosted over there, he doesn't own it outright... the sites are owned by Howard Fluker... but I'd say he'd thrown enough cash at the website to have the site staff by the short hair when he wants to demand something. Leaving them in a fairly unpleasant position of either letting him make a few more decisions than he really should, or pissing off and possibly driving off a substantial financial supporter. 'course at this point, leaving MKR (and Joe specifically since Wes Harris has not, to my knowledge, done anything underhanded, shady, unscrupulous or even offensive and there may come a time when it's important to divide MKR into "Stuff Joe did" and "Stuff Wes did") as a major advertiser and one that's apparantly throwing around dictates and ultimatums is just as damaging.

All just thoughts, of course, I don't know and can't prove anything.

I think, and this is more guesswork, when the rock gets lifted and all the slimey things living underneath it come to light, the end result is going to be as follows- Wes Harris is a good guy who produces and sells quality animals, he made a decision to pick up a financial backer that made sense. Morph prices dropped because the animals weren't selling at the higher prices. Perhaps MKR overshot the mark a bit with their sales drives and advertising, since someone seems to have either accepted money for animals they didn't have OR they sold everything they did and are looking for more to sell (although everything said about that so far has been secondhand "I know a guy who got asked" is somewhat questionable). Reptileforums and reptileauctions and the other related sites are looking like they may be in the same boat as Wes Harris, having accepted money and being left in a position where they've got this anchor tied around their collective (owner, admin, site staff, other invested advertisers and people who are simple users that liked the site design and content prior to this explosion) necks. Even so, at the bottom of it I'm not so sure there's anything that's actually wrong in a tangible sense... yet anyway, no misrepresented animals, nothing stolen nobody ripped off- just Joe Capone's monumental big mouth and his ego driven bullshit about how he's running the reptile industry. He's crapping all over everyone who ended up associated with him before his personality change but he doesn't seem to care much. He also doesn't seem to care about the fact that he crippled his own business, not through his price dropping, but through his comments and behavior- since the new morphs come from a fairly small number of people who have "first dibs" from the exporters on the other side, or the stock to invest in long term projects mixing various color traits... and MKR is going to be left out of those, no matter how much money Joe tries to throw at it. Their current stock is all they're ever going to get and after the prices drop on each morph they're dealing with... well... eventually the business will be left as something much less than it is now. Joe really has everything in his hands, he could probably still turn things around if he just got his own idiotic influence out of the business. He's a money-man who wanted to play idea-man; he should stick to what he's actually good at- providing capitol and taking his profits and just shut the hell up about everything else.

:iagree:
 
ravensgait said:
Funny how those who own Balls and are afraid they may not make all the money they thought they would look for anything and seem to make things up(Ya never provide any proof of what ya say) just to try and beat MKR over the head with them. Then you have those of us not into Ball coming here and trying to point out the failings in your arguments and also pointing out how you are acting just like this person Joe whom you so despise. And you get upset with us because you've gone off the deep end and were trying to stop you.

Ed you are beginning to sound worse than Joe himself and your not the only one here that is.

You folks really need to get a grip . If dealing in the BP market gets you this weirded out you folks need to get out and find something else to do with your time. No joke you guys are coming off like a pack of nut cases.


Seeing what is happening to many of you has faltered my respect for you and I'm sure I'm not the only one who's opinion of you has changed. You accuse Joe of this and that but this here is what he has done to you or better put what he has given you the chance to do to yourselves. Sad really sad..Randy

:iagree: :iagree:
 
OK. It goes "deeper". In fact, its so "deep" that 500 posts just can't explain it yet ? Need more posts to make your case ? What's stopping you? We got the part about Joe being unsavory, or a jerk, or whatever else about 480 posts back. Is it that they own some forums now and maybe got legal advice before establishing their banning policies, which puts them more in line with KS and others? Enlighten us !
 
jglass38 said:
Seamus, do you own a crystal ball man?

No.

The Wee One speak BIG TRUTH about short fat bald bigmouthed dingleberry joey caponie.

Maybe, it's just thoughts. I'm not certain about any of it. It *seems* like the truth to me, but I can't call it hard and fast fact.

Dead on! Its almost as if you have some inside info ;)

That last one was from my Karma feedback. I think it may be important for me to say at this juncture that I have no real inside information. The admin over at reptileforums is a guy who I'd consider a buddy... I know he was excited when MKR first got involved over there- told me about animal giveaways and Wes Harris being a fixture in the ball python forums answering questions and how they were going to produce short five-ten minute videos about animal topics like popping, probing, mendelian genetics, heating, tease feeding and so on. He stopped talking to me about the goings-on at some point so all my hypotheticals are just that- guesswork. I'd love to have some additional inside info, but the admin over there just isn't the kind of person who's going to get gossipy with details. Or even generalizations, I've asked for some and asked the same questions that other people have and gotten a response that it's just not something he's comfortable talking to me about. I'm a bit of a loudmouth myself so I don't blame anyone for being less than forthcoming.

I will say though, that I feel I have an inside knowledge of the character of some of the people who have become involved with MKR and some direct knowledge of how that involvement was viewed while it was happening to begin with. I'm left trusting that they are, in every instance where I know them personally, good, honest people who may have found themselves between a rock and a hard place, having to choose between the lesser of two evils and any other number of catchy colloqualisms to describe a fairly bad situation.

I almost wish I knew Joe Capone better (or at all) so that I could verbally pound some sense into him. I don't though and doubt that anything I have to say would be too well reccieved- he's not listening to anyone else, I don't see why I would be any exception.
 
Alright this is the last post. JIM O, I did not change my mind because MKR wouldn't loan me some money. I changed my mind when I heard alot of people telling me that the Yellow Blush morph is not true. That is when I changed my mind. Can we move off of me as the target?


-Andre Gennaro
 
Andre,
According to the thread in the other site, a friend or associate of yours advised you against the purchase beforehand. Yet you kept the critter for a year, finally deciding that you were owed money over what could have been a miscommunication or misunderstanding, on an animal you willingly bought, very likely as described. And "Oh Yeah", you're a 14 year old asking MKR for a $2000 loan a couple of weeks before the revelation that you want a refund. And now, on your word, which is pretty shaky in this forum when looking at your earlier threads, you tell us the events are not connected. Andre, you are young and still making many mistakes. One is wasting much effort trying to get the lion back in the cage once you let it out. You got $500 and the snake. Word to the wise ... disappear for a while.
 
Seems they have locked the thread over on Ball python.net, seems kind of funny that they now lock it.

Andre still waiting for that info that myself and others have asked you for. You can cut and run or post some proof to back up your claims. This forum is where you should have brought your story but I think some of us know why you didn't bring it to the BOI um your past history here. Not attacking you as you seem to say when asked questions I just want to know the truth of the matter and for once see some proof..Randy
 
albinoballpythons said:
Alright this is the last post. JIM O, I did not change my mind because MKR wouldn't loan me some money. I changed my mind when I heard alot of people telling me that the Yellow Blush morph is not true. That is when I changed my mind. Can we move off of me as the target?


-Andre Gennaro
You have a free snake you quite possibly are not ethically entitled to. Back up your position or drop the drama. In plain and simple terms, please answer the following:
1) Did you fully understand the genetics of what you were buying at the time you bought it?
2) Why did you disregard those who advised you against the purchase?

As others have stated, MKR will probably implode around the owners mouth, probably without your help. It's probably time to work on stopping the bleeding from your own self-inflicted wounds.
 
Tom, having heard Joe's sales pitch personally, I can alearly understand why Andre could have very well been convinced he knew what was said to him......and then figured out later he was led in circles until he didn't know what he actually understood. That's just my opinion, of course....

Why did he disregard those who advised him against the purchase? I can't say for sure, but I'm sure the few (and getting fewer) MKR worshippers will tell you, Joe is an excellent salesman.....to use the old phrase, "He could sell ice cubes to an Eskimo". Only later do you stop and think, "WTF?"
 
Cat_72 said:
Tom, having heard Joe's sales pitch personally, I can alearly understand why Andre could have very well been convinced he knew what was said to him......and then figured out later he was led in circles until he didn't know what he actually understood. That's just my opinion, of course....

Why did he disregard those who advised him against the purchase? I can't say for sure, but I'm sure the few (and getting fewer) MKR worshippers will tell you, Joe is an excellent salesman.....to use the old phrase, "He could sell ice cubes to an Eskimo". Only later do you stop and think, "WTF?"
Cathy,

You know that I love you and respect you but there are a lot of maybes in your post. Andre wants to be treated like an adult, used an adult's PayPal account, disregarded the advice of people before making the puschase, made a positive post about the transaction afterwards, and then when he was denied a loan for which he had no means to pay, this became an issue (whether there was a cause and effect is a matter of speculation). And this transaction was brought here to this forum by Ed Clark who clearly has as much of an agenda as anyone. Those are really the facts without too many maybes.

That Joe Capone is a good salesman or that he is a Class A (fill in blank with whatever you want), Andre knew exactly what he was getting and if he didn't he had no one to blame but himself.

As I have said multiple times, Joe Capone has created more than enough of his own problems, but Andre has presented nothing here that leads me to believe that he was wronged in any way, and further, that MKR went above and beyond to make it right.

That's good customer service/dispute resolution, just like the offer Joe made to you. Kind of reminds me of the old adage "the customer is always right".
 
albinoballpythons said:
Alright this is the last post. JIM O, I did not change my mind because MKR wouldn't loan me some money. I changed my mind when I heard alot of people telling me that the Yellow Blush morph is not true. That is when I changed my mind. Can we move off of me as the target?


-Andre Gennaro

Andre

Heres an interesting question that seems to have been passed by.....did MKR know you were a minor when you purchased the snake?
 
Way too much drama whenever MKR is mentioned. :rolleyes:

Time to drfit off topic (like that hasn't ever happened in this post) and just say that the butter corn from John at Suncoast is AWESOME. :thumbsup:

Now, back to the regulary scheduled bitchfest. :reddevil:
 
Suncoast Herpetological said:
Andre

Heres an interesting question that seems to have been passed by.....did MKR know you were a minor when you purchased the snake?
John,

That was addressed in that other thread and the answer was a clear maybe. At some point Wes spoke to Andre's mother and Andre did say he informed MKR of his age. What is not clear, at least not to me, is if Andre made the deal without involving a parent. But payment had to come from an adult, unless Andre mailed cash. As is also clear, Andre has access to a PayPal account, which technically must be in the name of, and under the control of, a parent.


Steve,

I agree, John has nothing but beautiful animals. Having seen some of them and having met him in person I could not recommend him more highly.
 
Nerd or whoever. Bring it bys.. All this talk here I am... they aren't industry leaders.

I welcome any breeder who thinks he is big like Nerd who runs his mouth to step up. Let's compare numbers, inventory, bank accounts and everything.

You do not sound like a happy and fullfilled man.
You sound like a spoiled kid.

Comparing bank accounts? geez dude. what are you? Ten?

Your bank account can be as big as high heaven.

But are you happy with yourself? You sound unhappy.

Besides, only the little people talk about bank accounts.

The BIG DAWGS have portfolios and trusts

And your bank account can't be that big. You are stil peddling your wares.
 
IMO, a better way would be to compare class and reputation. I also do not think Kevin/ NERD would hijack a website using very dirty methods to get it done. Or show himself in any such light. Nor would any of the other large breeders.


Seamus Haley, I like the way you summed it up. But take off the part about paying for advertising. Also, you would need to add a good bit more filth to the equations.

Yes, it was not that pretty of a picture at all, it goes quite a bit deeper than that.

Care to comment Joe?
 
Bobby, one has to HAVE some class to compare it with others, and Joe is quite challenged in that area. Actually, more like completely lacking.

You know, I actually think I'm finding myself feeling kind of sorry for Wes. I think he really had all of the right reasons getting into this, and from my conversation with him, he really seems to truly love the animals. I get the feeling that Joe is going to keep dragging him down with him. But then, he seems to be playing the games right along with Joe, so perhaps he doesn't find coming down to Joe's level isn't so hard.
 
Bobby I like ya buddy but have to call you on this""IMO, a better way would be to compare class and reputation. I also do not think Kevin/ NERD would hijack a website using very dirty methods to get it done. Or show himself in any such light. Nor would any of the other large breeders."

Just like every other MKR anti in this and other threads you say things but don't provided any proof and I remember you not wanting to write as you put it Hear Say in another thread so I assume you have some proof of what you wrote above???

Folks ya keep helping the guy. The only thing any of you have proven about MKR is that they have great customer service, ya do them more good than harm and yourselves more harm than good. Most of you anti's would be screaming Show Some Proof in any other thread about any ones else!! Yet here ya are no proof and still going at it. Reminds me of that H word again..Randy
 
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