Inquiry on DTS Herps...

[E2MacPets]

Dennis, then why bother telling her

I just actually upped them to 275 each or 1100 for all 4 shipped and if they do not sell for a few weeks at that price I will lower them because I have hundreds of reptiles for sale and can wait it out so to speak.

Even if he was willing to honor the original price, it was already highly inflated over deals Dan has been directly involved with in the past year. To quote a higher price and say he can wait it out is just pushing for Stina to cave.


Regardless, it's out there now and I'm not going to drag it out. This was our experience with Dan and how we felt in the process of attempting to conduct business with him.

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Yea, if you think I have the time of day to even contemplate to play with prices, then your way off. I don't even have the energy to think that far I am so busy.

I encouraged your fiance to get the reptiles from someone else I perhaps supplied, so what is you major malfunction besides not being man enough to admit when you are wrong?

Let me get this straight. You never read the emails, were on a phone conversation a month ago when deployed, and felt it necessary to make a negative post about another dealer you never spoke or corresponded with.

When us it going to dawn on you that you that you ought to help your peers instead of stabbing them in the back?

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Even if he was willing to honor the original price, it was already highly inflated over deals Dan has been directly involved with in the past year. To quote a higher price and say he can wait it out is just pushing for Stina to cave.

Possibly, he paid less for the previous animals. Supply considerable changed? Larger quantity deals. He needed to pay a bill or two and sold low. It happens. For whatever reason he valued these at that particular price at that time.

I looked at what ads I could find this morning. I only found two, other than Dan's.

I am down to my last pair. These are truly my favorite lizard out there. This pair is price to sell.

$250 each plus S/H

Shipping is not included in price. Shipping ranges from $35-$50 usually in the US.

Pink Tongue Skink, male, very rare, eating live crickets, lettuce and snails

$350.00 plus shipping, no trades

I can't comment if the particular animals are close to market prices because I simply don't know. Two ads isn't much guidance.

I have a hard time finding fault with someone who doesn't want to sell their animals at a lower price. Mainly, because I don't know what they are looking at on their end.
I use the same principles when looking at your pet shop scenario.
I don’t own a store but I sell to a few.

So today, I'm walking into a petstore I've never been to before. I see a cage full of animals that I've wanted for a while but put off buying from other sources, I know the general market, I know the wholesaler that provided these animals to the petstore, I know what price the wholesaler sells to the public at, and I know what breeders generally ask for them. I am an educated consumer.

Using the scenario above, I might know the wholesaler of the animals. I might know the breeder and the market. I don't know what the rent costs on the shop. What they pay their employees. What their utility bills are. Overall what his bottom-line is on that animal for him to even break even. So, instead of trying to haggle a shop for an animal that I could find less elsewhere, We either make a deal that we both are comfortable making or I buy direct. Sometimes that direct buy maybe better or not. Depending on quantity needed and convenience.

I've been to some stores that have had baby normal corns priced at 79.99 and they sell out constantly. The storefront rent is over $6,000 a month with little square footage. The area supports the prices. The prices are set accordingly to what will allow this store to remain open. The same normal corn sells at $20 down the road where the cost is appropriate to that business. Now, I can purchase normal corns for ten dollars or less depending on quantity but it has no relevance to either shop.

To quote a higher price and say he can wait it out is just pushing for Stina to cave.

It can be taken that way. I just wouldn't take it that way myself. To me it would mean he wasn't willing to meet my price so I would jump on another deal.


The other deals really don't have much relevance. I'll sell animals to a shop at one price and another shop differently. A lot has to do with timing, quantity, relationship and location. Basically, what works well with all parties involved.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

"Supply considerable changed?"

*considerably

 

[Jim O]

As someone who has traded negative comments back and forth with Dan in past threads and have criticized him in the past, I can’t find anything intimidating about his emails. Steve, with all respect, I just can't see it.

I can second that. Dan and I have gone more than a few rounds in the past, but frankly Steve, I don't see anything wrong with anything he has done here. It's a simple case of a potential customer not liking a price and not liking the fact that the potential seller would not accept a lesser offer. Nothing more. Dan has the right to ask what he wants for animals in his possession. Your fiance, who interestingly was not bothered enough by these events to initiate this complaint, can complain all she wants about Dan's prices, but in the end it's tough taffy on her if she does not want to pay them.



One thing I would point out to Dan is the following

And as is the case at the moment, I was informed my offer on them for $950 for the 4 was very cheap to startle other dealers to ask me to raise the prices so I do plan to up that a bit perhaps tomorrow or when the advertisement expires as I hid it

represents essentially an admission of collusion or price fixing. While the price may be "reasonable" it is still illegal. I would not have done this, and if I had done it, I would not have made this admission

 

[E2MacPets]

Fair enough guys. Again, I'm not looking to drag this out and make any bigger of a stink, I just simply noted how we walked away from our experience with Dan.
Dennis, you are right that I did not factor local economy into my petstore scenario, but my intention was to impart that familiarity on the encounter as opposed to 'random internet seller.' I went to Dan because I knew what he had and where he got it and I was willing to pay some premium to support his continued efforts to bring this particular animal into the states, but I was not willing to pay a markup of 300%.

And Jim, my fiance didn't particularly care because it was something she was pursuing on my behalf and by a certain point knew that it was not going to be a big loss if Dan didn't budge.


Now Dennis, here is the part you haven't picked up on in my petstore example

I believe I know who you might be buying them from and they came from my import from Germany a few days ago. I saw them all of course and delivered them myself and they are in great shape so am quite confident you will be happy with your order.

By buying from the person I chose to do business with, I still bought from Dan. And I bought at a drastically cheaper price. I did have to haggle for this price, but I did so using exactly the same information that Stina had available to her when she spoke to Dan.

Just so you understand, I had to go to someone Dan supplied in order to get a cheaper price. I was already quoted a lower price by this person when they first contacted me saying they had some available, and I haggled for a price far lower by the time Dan had told Stina to take her business elsewhere.

But why wouldn't I want an animal that went from Germany to Dan and then to me, instead of Germany to Dan to my source to me? Is it reasonable to say that less movement equates to less stress on the animals? It was only in the animals' interest to try and buy directly from Dan which is why I asked Stina to continue pushing.

 

[Serafim]

Its the sellers right to ask whatever price they see fit IMO. If you do not like the prices go look elsewhere. I looked around Kingsnake for pink tongues and the prices I saw were around 200-250. Maybe Dan would like to sell his animals at his prices alot of other businesses do and haven't recieved negative threads. Bottom line is don't like the prices move on. Take your chances with someone else. I do agree with Jim O on admitting you are raising your prices to meet others precieved value. Thats just wromg period and as Jim O pointed out illegal.

 

[Serafim]

Sorry about the typo's my typonese is flaring up LOL

 

[E2MacPets]

John,

Yes but by Dan's admission, at least one of those sellers doesn't have the animals and is selling off of someone elses wholesale list. Dan also admits he is the one that brought in these animals and believes he is the one who brought in the animals I bought from someone else [cheaper]. The person I bought from does a great deal of wholesale, so it's fair to assume that almost everyone currently selling animals of a certain age are selling from exactly the same source- Dan's imports.

Shouldn't Dan be the cheapest? Or at least shouldn't Dan be able to haggle the most? Instead Dan said he was raising his prices to not undercut the other sellers that he claims were complaining about his price.

And yet I managed to buy from a truly honest source (that Dan supplied) that was willing to take the information I presented (the prices that have been offered previously on animals Dan brought in) and offer a fair price.

 

[E2MacPets]

Look, the bottom line is that my fiance had a bad experience with Dan that she walked away from because I had been able to attain a better price for what were effectively the same exact animals.

The issue of price fixing not withstanding, the animals that I received [that Dan brought in] from my source are represented exactly how Dan suggested they would be. I couldn't be happier. I had wanted these animals years ago before I got out of the business, and now as a hobby I am fortunate to have been able to acquire some shortly after starting to rebuild my collection. It's just frustrating to have to jump through hoops and go further down the chain of custody of these animals to have gotten them at a fair price.

 

[Gecko_Den]

John,

Yes but by Dan's admission, at least one of those sellers doesn't have the animals and is selling off of someone elses wholesale list. Dan also admits he is the one that brought in these animals and believes he is the one who brought in the animals I bought from someone else [cheaper]. The person I bought from does a great deal of wholesale, so it's fair to assume that almost everyone currently selling animals of a certain age are selling from exactly the same source- Dan's imports.

Shouldn't Dan be the cheapest? Or at least shouldn't Dan be able to haggle the most? Instead Dan said he was raising his prices to not undercut the other sellers that he claims were complaining about his price.

And yet I managed to buy from a truly honest source (that Dan supplied) that was willing to take the information I presented (the prices that have been offered previously on animals Dan brought in) and offer a fair price.

Steve, I sounded a bit cranky in my post this morning, having a newborn and a three year old in the house tends to do that, so I apologize for the tone of my first post. That being said, I still think you are missing the point, or choosing not to see it; it is well within Dan's right to ask what he wants for his animals. Just as it was your right to choose to buy from another person at a better price. I think you are a bit out of line when calling him "dishonest" or "intimidating" or anything else just because he chose to set his prices at what he chooses. What he paid, what he sold to others previously, and what others told you they paid for the animals are irrelevant to the specific scenario.

To be honest I am often willing to negotiate when selling an animal but some of the low ball offers I get on some ads make me laugh. I place a certain value on what I offer for sale, it may change based on outside influences (maybe I want to generate cash for another purchase, maybe I just want to clear some rack space, etc..) in the end though it is still my choice in deciding what I am willing to sell for and if I was in Dan's shoes I wouldn't be too happy with someone telling me what they think I should sell my animals for based on what they think they know regarding how I decided on my price.

In all honesty I just didn't see anything in the posted e-mails to justify your post about Dan; it appeared, to me at least and others judging from some of the responses in this thread, as sour grapes on your part for not getting the animals at the price you wanted to pay. Not trying to bust your balls here, just giving you an outsiders opinion/observation.

 

[StinaUIUC]

Dan not lowering the price was not something I had a problem with...it was the way he conducted himself in not lowering the price....if he had simply said "i'm sorry I can't go any lower"...that's one thing...but to say "i'm already selling them too low...i'm going to raise the price" is a sheer intimidation tactic and I don't see how it could be taken any other way. I did not post to start anything, I posted in response to the fact that dan blatantly left out half of the e-mails he sent me and I wanted to make sure that everything was posted and not just what he felt like sharing.

Oh also...the e-mails where he said he might raise the price if I don't buy, and where he said he had raised the price...were both within HOURS and I had not yet even had the time to reply to the first one.

 

[StinaUIUC]

it appeared, to me at least and others judging from some of the responses in this thread, as sour grapes on your part for not getting the animals at the price you wanted to pay. Not trying to bust your balls here, just giving you an outsiders opinion/observation

steve has no reason to be upset about "not getting the price he wanted" because he did it get from a different source. He was just sharing our experience in attempting to deal with dan

 

[StinaUIUC]

oops wait, I had responded between those e-mails...I apologize for forgetting that (don't know why I thought that...)... but you will notice that I had never mad any actual offer at a price...I simply asked if he could go any lower. I did not give a ridiculous low-ball price...I simply mentioned a price someone else had gotten at some point...I did not ask for that price, I did not ask for anything close to that price...I simply asked if he could go any lower if buying all 4.

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Steve:

Sorry, but you are wrong again.

Your fiance and I had a very professional and nice conversation via email and I was quite polite despite she implied to take her business elsewhere if I would not come down on the price. We never raised tones and she never expressed any disatisfaction nor intimidation. There was no price fixing just a simple mention from peers suggesting I advertised them too low so I thought to raise them to not bother the market price. So sue me for being respectful to other professionals who advised me differently than your guesswork at pricing.

The markup was 50% not 300% percent as you again have reported misinformation.

Again, read the emails to your fiance. I only kept 4 behind for the retail market on my first order. I did not have the supply or bargin amount/power to sell them at any cheaper, so sue me.

No offense, but you are expressing much misinformation based on false assumptions and not the facts. And if you had ALL the facts, you would be slamming your head against the wall having stated what you've stated.

Why have you not called me to get the facts? Or are you still going to make more false accusations based on hearsay and your illusions of how other people ought to price reptiles?

Hey, I think you are an OK guy who just got over-defensive because your fiance could not sway me to come down and you see me pricing them low now. I told her I only had 4 at the time and did not have the leverage to go lower and was nice to suggest she take the other offer. Had I had 20 or 30 like I do now, I could afford to do that. So what gives dude. My offer still stands if you want them. I hold no grudges. If you got the green, I got the skinks. Fat ones too.

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Steve:

Sorry, but you are wrong again.

Your fiance and I had a professional and nice conversation via email. She never expressed any anxiety and if so, please allow me to give her a call and apologize in person.

There was no price fixing just a simple mention from peers suggesting I advertised them too low so I thought to raise them.

The markup was 50% not 300% percent as you again have reported misinformation. You are expressing much misinformation based on false assumptions and not the facts. And no offense, but if you had ALL of the facts and knew all of the information surrounding the importaiton of hundreds of animals in several shipments, you would be slamming your head against the wall having stated what you've stated and be quite quick to apologize.

Why have you not telephoned to get the facts or express your disatisfaction? Why did you post such misinformation about me when we have never spoken nor ever corresponded before? What is your motivation behind your false statements? Are you still going to make false statments/accusations based on hearsay and your illusions of how other people ought to price reptiles?

Hey, I think you are an OK guy who just got over-defensive because your fiance could not sway me to come down and you see me pricing them low now. I told her I only had 4 at the time and did not have the leverage to go lower and was nice to suggest she takes the other offer. Had I had 20 or 30 like I do now, I could afford to do that.

My offer still stands if you would like more skinks. I hold no grudges and don't know what you were told etc. which misled you to make such harsh and wrong assumptions about my correspondence with your fiance.

If you still need more, I will provide a special discount price for you.

 

[E2MacPets]

Again, read the emails to your fiance. I only kept 4 behind for the retail market on my first order. I did not have the supply or bargin amount/power to sell them at any cheaper, so sue me.

And yet you acknowledged that someone you supplied was selling them cheaper. You're not exactly supporting your own argument here.

Your fiance and I had a very professional and nice conversation via email and I was quite polite despite she implied to take her business elsewhere if I would not come down on the price. We never raised tones and she never expressed any disatisfaction nor intimidation.

She wasn't intimidated, but clearly felt you were trying to intimidate her. She did express disatisfaction, what else do you call asking why the prices were so much higher than they've sold for previously through you?

There was no price fixing just a simple mention from peers suggesting I advertised them too low so I thought to raise them to not bother the market price.

I wasn't the one to first bring this up, please keep that in mind.
But the fact is that you are stating your peers (some of whom you supplied) suggested that you raise your prices to be in line with what they were asking. You are acknowledging that it was your intention to keep the market price at a certain level.

I did not have the supply or bargin amount/power to sell them at any cheaper, so sue me.

That's simply untrue. Why was someone you supplied able to price them significantly cheaper?

You have every right to ask whatever you want for your animals, but I absolutely consider the way you dealt with Stina to be in very poor form.

So what gives dude. My offer still stands if you want them. I hold no grudges. If you got the green, I got the skinks. Fat ones too.

Please stop trying to push your animals, I have all the skinks I could want at the moment!

I think you are an OK guy

Something we can agree on!

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Steve:

First you say she was intimidated and now you say she was not intimidated.

Again, you know none of the facts and are basing your statements on hearsay and guess work. If you had the facts, you would apologize.

You should apologize to me for saying what you did and apologize to the readers for making such statements without knowing all the facts.

Sorry my stubborn friend, but I explained the rest and no longer have the interest to continue this debate over stuff you assumed wrongly.

 

[Gecko_Den]

At this point you guys should probably just agree to disagree and move on...

 

[Serafim]

At this point you guys should probably just agree to disagree and move on...