Interesting but unethical Hybrid attempt.

[Southwick Herps]

Yep, I agree with Karen on this one.
With snakes, I think, IN MY OPINION just shouldn't be mixed, because I disagree with hybridization, unless it is a naturally occuring integrade.

 

[Cat_72]

I'm not going to re-hash the whole "mutts" issue, it's been done on a couple of other threads lately....and I think you missed the whole point of what I said anyway. It takes YEARS of careful select breeding to create a TRUE new breed. One generation does NOT constitute a "new" breed.

Several new species of chickens are created each year... how does this happen? They sure dont find them in the wild.

Uh, again, I'm not sure what you are talking about here......(and yes, I raise chickens too) but I don't think there are any new SPECIES of chickens..... Now if you were talking crossbreeding a chicken with, say....a DUCK, that would be cause for concern, wouldn't you say?

I think the ethical thing to do here is breed them, if you produce offspring, breed them to each other and back to one of each species. Record the findings, put them on ice and more on.

So you think people should be producing animals just to kill them??? Yeah, that makes a LOT of sense to me.

 

[crazydart]

It takes YEARS of careful select breeding to create a TRUE new breed. One generation does NOT constitute a "new" breed.

In your openion. What does make a new breed? I say when you cross a line such as breeding different subspecies. So in my definition, it only takes one generation for a new breed. Now it could take many generations to refine a subspecies. IMHO.

Uh, again, I'm not sure what you are talking about here......(and yes, I raise chickens too) but I don't think there are any new SPECIES of chickens..... Now if you were talking crossbreeding a chicken with, say....a DUCK, that would be cause for concern, wouldn't you say?

Perhaps what I ment was subspecies. Again, what makes a new species? Even if it is a hybrid, isnt it still a new species? Perhaps it is only a new species if the hybrid is fertial and able to reproduce. If you raise chickens you know how many different kinds of chickens are out there. Maybe we dont call them different species, they are sub species... or breeds? Really after looking into this.. the answer to where does a new species come from really depends on your views on evolution and many other theroies. I am not about to touch that. My views are likely differnet from yours. So lets drop this part of the conversation and agree to dissagree.

So you think people should be producing animals just to kill them??? Yeah, that makes a LOT of sense to me.

Well really that was my openion and how I would go at it if it was research. Perhaps the person creating the hybrid is doing it for profit... of course the animal would not be youthonized. Ok, maybe you dont share my views on youthonization, there are other methods, and I dont know that I would ever just youthonize them after that much work, but that statment stemed from the thought that you would not breed the offspring or offer them to the public in a condition that they could breed. The only 2 ways to see that happens is to have them sergically fixed/altered or youthonized. AGAIN, IMHO, that and $4 will get you coffe at starbucks.

 

[Cat_72]

Well really that was my openion and how I would go at it if it was research. Perhaps the person creating the hybrid is doing it for profit... of course the animal would not be youthonized. Ok, maybe you dont share my views on youthonization, there are other methods, and I dont know that I would ever just youthonize them after that much work, but that statment stemed from the thought that you would not breed the offspring or offer them to the public in a condition that they could breed. The only 2 ways to see that happens is to have them sergically fixed/altered or youthonized. AGAIN, IMHO, that and $4 will get you coffe at starbucks.

I didn't necessarily disagree with your method of euthanasia, I disagreed with your reasons. I simply fail to understand the point in creating a life only to end it, for your own curiousity of what will happen. If not for profit.....what is your motivation? Breeding something such as this Ball Python/Burmese hybrid would not happen in nature....what useful information would you gain from it?

 

[Junkyard]

Science-Find something new, study it, feed it, breed it, inject it, mutilate it, kill it, study it some more.

Personally I am not into hybrids, I do not think electrical/gas cars are worth the money, nor will they save on pollution. According to environmental nuts cows are producing more pollution than cars do.

I think if it is a couple of species that are from the same region on earth than hybridization is possible(surinam boas x columbian boas), but when mixing two species that would never have met because of a mass of water and land space(ball python x jungle carpet python), those two breeding would never happen. Someone stated that these people are playing God, yeah maybe so. He wants a new species of snakes, it may happen it may not. We will find out though.

My 2 cents

 

[sirenofthestorm]

Hybridizing is not really science. There are already as many definitions of species as there are flavors of jelly beans, and no experimentation is needed to arrive at those definitions, the natural world has already done that for us. So if everyone could please stop saying that they're hybridizing for science's sake, or that science just wants to see what will happen, that would be great. Please inform yourself.

Also, junkyard, I've never seen acid rain downwind from bovine herds. Methane isn't the most fun substance in the world, but it's certainly not as toxic as smog is either. Boa constrictor is the species, and there are different locales that are subspecies... everyone in science has agreed that members of the same species should be able to interbreed, and they do. When subspecies produce offspring together, that's called an intergrade - it is NOT the same thing as a hybrid.

 

[crazydart]

Hybridizing is not really science. There are already as many definitions of species as there are flavors of jelly beans, and no experimentation is needed to arrive at those definitions, the natural world has already done that for us. So if everyone could please stop saying that they're hybridizing for science's sake, or that science just wants to see what will happen, that would be great. Please inform yourself.

Hmmm, science is what you make it. You mean to tell me that if I want to breed two things and see what the out come its not science? Is it history? Perhaps Math... no I really think its grammar (a subject I never did well in SORRY!).

 

[Southwick Herps]

Hmmm, science is what you make it. You mean to tell me that if I want to breed two things and see what the out come its not science? Is it history? Perhaps Math... no I really think its grammar (a subject I never did well in SORRY!).

Good call. Isn't science any kind of natural inquiry someone would have? Such as, breeding different species to see what happens?
I personally just don't like hybridizing snakes. I like them the way they are.

And, Siren, Ben never said that he himselve believes that cows are the cause of a lot of pollution, he was reffering to a group of people. Mostly veagans, who are just using it as an argument to rid of cows which are a major contributer to the meat products in the world.

 

[brandonS]

I know this is kind of off-topic, but I couldn't resist-
http://www.greenapple.com/~jorp/amzanim/crossesa.htm

 

[sirenofthestorm]

"just cause I wanted to see what would happen" isn't a hypothesis. Didn't yall learn what the scientific method was in grade school?

Gah.

 

[Southwick Herps]

It may not be a hypothesis... But is it not a scientific inquiry? Who says you need to have a hypothesis to make it scientific??
Besides... who says he didnt predict what the outcome would be? Just by breeding them, he obviously has the question. Success or failure. Which means, if he is optimistic there is the hypothesis... success.. if he's pessemistic then it'll be failure...

 

[Rakshasanyc]

I think that people should stop hybridizing snakes. Get real, the majority only do it to make an insane profit on their creations like with the Borneo Bat Eaters. They make quite a profit. Buy simple, cheap burms and retics, and breed em together, and sell for thousands upon thousands...

Actually, as I understand it creating Borneo Bateaters is a rather involved process. More often than not the Burm & Retic will refuse to mate; when they do more often than not the eggs will be infertile. You're probably going to need multiple Burms and multiple Retics to make a serious attempt at creating Bateaters. And while Burms and Retics may be simple and cheap, keeping a couple dozen of each is neither simple nor cheap.

Offhand, the only people I can think of who have produced Bateaters are Bob Clark and NERD -- both of whom have very large collections of very large snakes. I'm sure there are others, but I'm betting they came to the table with multiple snakes. If Joe Blow from Kokomo could put his Retic and Burm together and produce Bateaters as easily as he could breed pure Retics or pure Burms, they wouldn't be going for $5k a pop.

I will of course defer to others on here whose knowledge surpasses my own: I've never attempted Burm or Retic breeding and probably never will, given the current flooded state of the market. And I have to admit that I'm curious to see what a Burm/Ball cross would look like. (At the very least I'm guessing it wouldn't be a fussy eater )

 

[Griz]

Of course, you always have this possibility.......

 

[Southwick Herps]

Now that is impossible. They'll court all ya want, but a live bearer cannot breed and produce offspring with a egg bearing species...

 

[amayon]

what two kinds of snakes are those?

oh and hey i have the latest in the hot designer mutts

Rare Merle Pit Bull Stud Fee Starting At $1500

 

[Metalmaster136]

Is it really all about looks? I guess so. This damn world of ours has evolved for the worse. The whole view on pretty people blah blah blah in my opinion is ruining our world. People get depressed because of this shit, then we give them "anti depressants" and we make them feel better that way. Pills aren't any good. LIKE LETS MAKE EVERYTHING BETTER FROM CHEMICALS.

I wish we lived like people way back. It irrates me.

Now to my point, have we gone to the limit? NO, we have to do this to ANIMALS, we have to do it to our loyal pets so they look good. We have to mess with evolution and make it worse than it already has gotten us. I'm not saying evolution is a bad things but we're abusing it.

WE ARE ABUSING EVOLUTION.

What makes me mad is that some people would rather have a AMAZING looking snake who bites them al the time and they can't enjoy them, rather than an ugly snake that has the best personality. Why has it come to this.

I didn't read all pages of this but i read a few and this is just my $.02 of this matter.

 

[ffollett]

Bringing up a topic like hybrids and Live vs p/k is like starting an all out war. People are ready to take up arms to kill the evil little hybrid monsters. I just don't understand why people get so worked up about these things. It isn't like he is going to start a secret project to release them into the wild were they will screw up an ecosystem.
Would I have tried this combo? Nope. It probably wouldn't have crossed my mind to even attempt it. In the long run I hope it works out for him and he has healthy babies out of the mix. One because I met him at the Daytona show and he seems like a nice guy and two because it would suck for the babies if they did hatch out into a world of suffering. If that was the case I am sure he would put them down. If they are healthy I am sure others will try it.
How many of the larger breeder do you think try this but they just don't post pics of it. What was the last hybrid to come out of NERD I can't remember off the top of my head? I do remember it was two species that should not have been able to breed based on current taxonomy. How many mixes do you think Kevin put together before getting a success. I am sure he has others that he is trying. I also know because of his hybrid now current taxonomy will have to be looked over again and changed.

 

[Cat_72]

Bringing up a topic like hybrids and Live vs p/k is like starting an all out war. People are ready to take up arms to kill the evil little hybrid monsters.

I don't see an all-out war anywhere, do you?

There are those of us who perhaps disagree with it, but can still have an intelligent, adult discussion about it.

I don't see anyone here ready to "kill all the hybrid monsters" either. A life is a life, that would be why, if you had read my initial postings, I was appalled at the thought of creating them just to do that very thing. Once they are here on Earth, they deserve the same chance at a humane life as any other creature, but if they are destined to have health problems and such, OR you are just doing it "to see what will happen" and then stick them in the freezer, why create them at all?

 

[amayon]

that last pic, can someone tell me what species those are please?

 

[ffollett]

I don't see an all-out war anywhere, do you?

There are those of us who perhaps disagree with it, but can still have an intelligent, adult discussion about it.

Sorry I didn't mean to imply that is what was going on here. I was just saying that hybrids and live vs f/t seem like the herp worlds version of talking about sex and politics.

I actually like the way things are being handled here. I have seen to many of these conversations in other places turn into what I was talking about, thats all.