Is it a hobby anymore

[Gary O]

This maybe long this maybe short I am going to stop when I stop. Just a heads up.

I look at today and see this "hobby" getting torn apart by the people that say it is ther hobby. A hobby is something you do becuase you enjoy it. But look around.... How many happy people do you see. I see a ton of people fighting. Fighting over stuff like

The price on this is to low
The price on that is to high
This person bred this that is wrong
This person posted this he is w

 

[Gary O]

This maybe long this maybe short I am going to stop when I stop. Just a heads up.

I look at today and see this "hobby" getting torn apart by the people that say it is ther hobby. A hobby is something you do becuase you enjoy it. But look around.... How many happy people do you see. I see a ton of people fighting. Fighting over stuff like

The price on this is to low
The price on that is to high
This person bred this that is wrong
This person posted this he is wrong
This site is run this way this is wrong

Today the "hobby" is under attack more then it ever has been. But we still go after each others throats. No one helps one another anymore. It is either you are on this side that side or the other side. You better choose now or be judged.

Who the hell gets judged in a "hobby" Something that as a kid we all loved. Where the hell is the passion.

I walk into my reptile rooms and look at the animals and wonder will I still have all this in a year. Will have have the joy of pulling out a columbian boa. Will I have the joy of producing my Cremesicle Enigmas.

I ask you now what does this "hobby" mean to you? Why all the hatred? Some of the things we all fight about is just well Stupid.............

I will leave with the following staement. Becuase I hit submit early. I wiill post to this thread as it gets replies.

If this is a "hobby" then what jo does it bring you?

 

[shrap]

Oh shut up you big bald headed whiner.....

 

[DAND]

If this is a "hobby" then what joy does it bring you?

The joy it brings me is listening to a grown man whine like a little girl.

Just kidding there brother, Sammy wasn't whining that much.


I stops being a hobby when you start trying to make money at it beyond what you put into it. Once it is effecting your wallet, what the next guy is doing it becomes business and when all the

The price on this is to low
The price on that is to high
This person bred this that is wrong
This person posted this he is wrong
This site is run this way this is wrong

starts. The conflict is between people doing business with other people doing business with the addition of hobbyists thrown in there. It's like the saying, "too many cooks spoil the soup". "X" amount of Chefs, "X" amount of cooks and "X" amount of culinary students and stir.

In other words the reality is everyone has different goals, preferences and experiences. Combine that with the reality that everyone (especially "experts") feel that their opinions, ideas or ways of doing things should be taken as gospel by others. Put those two "ingredients" together and they can derail and even destroy the effectiveness of the entire group effort.

 

[TheFragginDragon]

Couldn't have said it better Dave.

Me personally, I still consider it a hobby because all I look for is to make enough to break even with my expenses. I'm able to still look at my critters with awe, fascination, and passion, and enjoy every aspect of keeping them. Having 'real' friends (not the typical 'myspace' type ) that share it makes it even more worthwhile.

Don't ever lose that passion Gary, the Taylor show just wouldn't be the same without ya bro

 

[hhmoore]

Blame it all on the the damned computers!

Today's information technology advances people far too quickly, IMO.
Many may disagree, but I don't think that people that have kept reptiles for all of three (or maybe even six ) months should be so focused on breeding. It seems like an inordinate number of people are STARTING in this hobby with plans to breed...and I'm not talking down the road kinda plans, lol.
With information at their fingertips, the incoming herpers often fast track without really learning about their animals or gaining valuable experience.

How do they build these collections? Computers!
OK, that was silly - they don't build the snakes with a computer, but that's how they find and buy them. Talk about instant gratification. Scroll through pictures, that's a nice one, click to access website, click, click, click, new snake. Anybody remember pricelists? lol Boy, do I feel old saying that. I used to love getting pricelists. The thrill when they showed up, looking up the names I didn't recognize (IN A BOOK, DAMMIT), the excitement of waiting for it to show up (because most times, you didn't see pictures of the specific animal you were getting). oops, got on a bit of a tangent there...

Breeding used to involve more experience...a greater familiarity with the animals. Now, the whole herp keeping experience is reduced to following recipes. Great in some ways, not so hot in others. Anyway, it used to be that entry level breeders were somewhat limited in their options for selling babies...and that was something we had to keep in mind. We had herp society meetings (IF sales were allowed), local options, selling them to one of the people we bought from (at wholesale prices). Shows were less common - once or twice a year - and when you first started, you never had enough to make it worth buying a table.
Nowadays, online options offer even the most computer challenged people instant exposure. Online classifieds, websites, social networking connections, etc. Of course, that just means that everybody from all over everywhere is competing for sales. People that overproduce, or don't move their animals fast enough, often lower prices to stimulate sales....but then the other guys that are sitting on a bunch of babies feel compelled to match, or beat, those prices. The price wars are great for consumers, but they devalue the animals quickly. Couple that with the increased availability, and market stability is pretty much shot.
Of course, that creates ill feelings....AND sets up a different problem. Good deals aren't good enough anymore. While a small percentage of people are getting pickier, a bigger group is price focused...and they act like they are entitled to get whatever they want for whatever they are willing to give you for it. Acting like big players, trying to wheel and deal, and making some of the most insulting offers one could imagine...while expecting the seller to jump through hoops for them. I'd better stop there, before people figure out how I REALLY feel

Online forums - I love this place, but don't get me started on that topic, lol.

I still love this hobby, and get a lot of enjoyment from my animals.....
I HATE selling now, though.
I'm not planning on producing a whole lot this season, because I just don't want to deal with selling the babies. Sure, I could hold back some of the most likely to sell critters, and feed the rest to something...but then people would talk crap about me in chat (or worse).

 

[shrap]

I still love this hobby, and get a lot of enjoyment from my animals.....
I HATE selling now, though.
I'm not planning on producing a whole lot this season, because I just don't want to deal with selling the babies.

Indeed Harald!! I cant even begin to tell you how much I hate the financial/people side of this hobby. I hate it so much I am not breeding at all this year. In fact, I am selling off most of my collection and getting completely away from the financial side of this hobby.

 

[hhmoore]

re: Blame it all on the the damned computers!

DOH!! How could I have blamed all the problems on computers without mentioning...... scammers! Sure, there were some around before, but the computer generation spawned a new breed of parasite that oozes BS. They change their names and identities quicker than a zebra can change his spots (yeah, I know, shut up...its my rant, I'll say it the way I want, lol), and it seems their whole purpose on this world is to prey on any herper careless enough to fall for their song and dance...or stolen pictures. Personally, I think each one of them should be forced to stand before a jury of OUR peers. The official way might read their peers, but what good are a room full of no good theiving scammers going to do us when it comes time to deal with another one? NONE. We need a group of people that hate them for what they do...people that think they should be deprived of the very air WE breathe...maybe even people that grew up pulling body parts off insects, blowing up frogs, or tying firecrackers to cats' tails. <looks around> Ummm, where was I - oh yeah - They should have to face US. And we should have a pile of rocks...or, at least, frozen snowballs.

 

[Twizted Paths]

It's not just computers, blame the cage & rack manufacturers as well. You used to have to figure out how to make all that stuff your self. Sitting there with a bunch of books on an animal's native country (couldn't find a good one on the snake itself) and trying to figure out how to cram a different country's environment into a floor model tv (that you just drug for three blocks and up two flights of stairs), still be able to keep it clean & make it escape proof will force you actually think.

Now you just jump on line and order your cage/rack completely set up with heat and all. A complete assembly line, just plug it in & add the animals.

Feeders of any kind delivered right to your door. Anybody else remember really wanting something & having the cash but not getting it because there was no way to get the feeders you needed? That's if you could even find the animal itself.

Now days people are all turning breeding into their job. It's the only reason they even start. That's where a lot of the damn garbage animals are coming from too. Jobs are not something you enjoy, they're something you do so that you can afford to do what you enjoy.

Few seem to care about improving what they're breeding, they just want to make money. So they buy crap animals, breed the crap animals to each other, sell the even more crappier animals, make money and breed more crap animals to make more money. Nobody care about the quality of the animal they just want the genes & the money.

I want to do this because I love them, because they fascinate me to no end and have my whole life. I want to see what kind of beautiful creatures I can make. That's why I have hets, because it will make it so awesome when I finally get my aberrant patterned snow, sunglow & moonglow. It's not because I couldn't afford to just buy them outright, it's because I want to walk into my snake room and see them peering up out of the ooze at me.

Besides my hets are gorgeous wonderful animals themselves.

If I wanted to do this for the business I would have bought the morphs outright along with complete assembly line rack systems and saved a lot of money. I would have bred three females instead of trying for one. I would have went for a pair that would produce proven marketable morphs instead of seeing what my boy can do. If I can get my animals to pay for themselves that would be awesome, if not I don't really care because I would have bought them any way.

Everybody else can get scared and sell off their stock. That's all it is to them - Stock. That's fine, good riddance. Leave this to the people who actually give a damn about the animals not just the money.

As for losing my animals - No. Nobody is taking my animals. I may never get to be a breeder but I will always be a keeper. Legal or not.

 

[Gary O]

Oh shut up you big bald headed whiner.....

LMAO.... Still love ya bro

 

[bokuza]

I haven't slept in three days so this is going to be pretty daft and very crudely written...

:/ I hear you guys loud and clear. I haven't really been here that long but I've been around the internet to agree with hhmoore and to see the market go for roller coasters. It seems like whenever the economy is down every hobby including animals suffers a lot of blows and the people within that hobby run around like idiots trying to match prices and to make a fast sell with quick cash. When you stop taking your animals out, just to touch them and see them, because your too busy selling, pairing males and females, hatching eggs and dealing with feeders...Im pretty sure then it's not a hobby.

Right now Im buying all of Balls as youngsters, not at all once. And really, I think im topping myself off at 5. I want a few of those beautiful morphs so i can watch them grow up. I just want to take them threw thick and thin...as pets. Not as my money making machines. My own old man brought up breeding, we amused ourselves by looking about at different morphs, thinking of new ones we could try but in all honesty we both don't think of it as a money maker. We both know if it happens at all it's years off. Itll be a slow very expensive and careful project. Even involving Veterinarians. And who knows! By the time my guys are full grown, I may not have the room or money for more. I might just be sitting happy with what I have to say, no thanks, I like the number 5. It's all just musings and what if thoughts...Whats real is wanting to just be around the snakes themselves and learn about them. Thats the glory of this hobby, thats what the original intention is and always should be.

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

it stopped being fun when I spent more money than I could afford to and then figured out it was harder than I thought. Buying "hets" and possible hets that either NEVER proved or proved YEARS AND YEARS later than expected. "Friends" turning into scammers. Watching everyone else succeed while I failed again, and again, and again. At least it sure seemed like everyone else was succeeding while I failed.

I'm still plugging away.......waiting for it to be fun again. Succeeding now some~ three albinos and 1 pied produced this year...........

But I'm still waiting for it to be fun again. Wishing for that anticipation and eagerness I feel when I look at the calves I raised on bottles eating pasture all on their own. I used to get that feeling from the snakes. Now......it's more work than fun with the snakes. But I'm not giving up. Maybe I'll find the Joy again. And if I don't......well..........
The goats are getting wider I think there will be kids soon, then all that wonderful goat milk again!
The cows are getting bigger......there will be beef soon. The heifers will be coming up on breeding this summer, need to find a bull I like for them.
The chickens are pecking in the yard, raising little families and have little squables
There will be chicken soup for dinner tonight

and the snakes will be in their racks doing their thing. Might actually be able to make some money at them this year..........that will be nice. I'll use it to buy hay, build fences, buy a bush hog and have some fun.

 

[kmarsh]

To me, I love my hobby and am glad that is what it is. I guess when opinions get in the way that is when the love can also be lost. What I feel is not necessarily what others feel but this is my view.
No animal/reptile is a "crap" animal to me. Just because they arent hets, pieds, albino this or that, doesn't make them worthless to me. I remember when I was terrified of all critters, especially reptiles and the such. A friend was given a tarantula and I thought that was horrible, but as I watched it and began to read, I found a wonderful world of colors and differences. I remember attending my first "show" @ Dixie Reptiles in a motel room in Alabama. It was mostly spiders and such but a few geckos and the newest crazy "Bearded Dragons". I was in love. No color but cute as can be. Brought them home and read everything I could find. All was well. Then something no one could prepare me for and was in no book, propane gas takes the oxygen out of the air and I began to loose them. I remember the panic, the heart break, heaven knows the vet bills before I figured out what was the problem. Then we got our first breeding pair. I thought I was in heaven as I watched with wonder as she began to dig and later laid her eggs, carefully moving them to the boxes to wait for them to hatch. NOTHING other than my children or grandchild being born can compare to watching those eggs hatch and seeing those first beardie babies that were MINE. From a Ball python named Ms. Amenia that would only eat male mice and got a respritory infection then having to learn to give her shots, to the escapies that got loose and had to be hunted down, to the 2 snake bites I have had, I wouldn't change a thing. I have been here a while and watched alot come and go, But its still a hobby to me. I recently was diagnosed with a idiotic interstitial lung disease. Never smoked, no explanation and the first question from others was " Is it the reptiles?" I held my breath hoping that this would not be the case and thankfully it isn't but had it been, I could never give up the ones that I have loved so much and have given me such love in return as my reptiles. Thankfully, its still a hobbie to me.

 

[hhmoore]

Just to be sure, I went back and went through my list.
- I'd still rather clean cages than my house. CHECK
- I enjoy feeding the critters. CHECK
- If one doesn't eat that usually does, I still care why. CHECK
- I still hold snakes while cleaning cages, or feeding cagemates. CHECK
- I still get excited when I think something might be gravid. CHECK
- I still have first times. CHECK
- I think that the health of any given animal is more important than potential babies. CHECK
- I'm going to get rid of my animals, if/when I decide to take that "next step" with my girlfriend. WHAT???? HELL NO!!, WHO PUT THAT IN THERE, THAT ISN'T ON MY LIST
- I have snakes that I have no intention of breeding, or selling. CHECK
- When I get bit, my first thought is I hope the snake will hold on long enough for me to get a good picture. CHECK (sorry, guys, didn't happen today...but I think I've proved this one true enough times)

 

[elkmillbillyreptiles]

Wow you guys are depressing. I love this hobby. Their is so much to learn and the best thing is feeding day. I love it when people come over and see my collection and jaws drop. I don't plan on breeding only for me. I can buy whatever I want and don't need to make money off of them. Well have fun and enjoy this hobby.

 

[Alex G]

I never really liked the term "hobby" in regard to keeping live animals, anyways. Hobby conjures up images of gardening or coin collecting or something quiet and relaxing, and while I love my snakes, there are definitely huge stressers whenever there is anything wrong with them. Gary... it sounds like your not dissatisfied with the animals and the care that goes into them, just with the people who share your interest in them. With snakes becoming a more common pet, there are all kinds of people to deal with, not always good. Maybe take a break, fade away for a bit as you mentioned in another thread, just to get a breath of fresh air away from bickering and constant questions about the same thing, and then come back when or if you feel like engaging with the community again?

 

[AbsoluteApril]

Jobs are not something you enjoy, they're something you do so that you can afford to do what you enjoy.

My job supports my hobby.

When I first got reptiles in '98 I didn't know a lot but was thankful for the internet and various forums so I could learn as much as possible (what kind of redtail boa is this? was probably one of my first posts). I will also say that because of the things I was reading on the net I wanted to 'get rich' breeding, I had dollar signs dancing in my eyes in 2002.

The two boa litters I got in '03 brought me straight back to reality (the albino dropped premature, 16 babies, 8 still borns and out of the 16 only 4 ended up surviving, total heartbreak; the normal dropped 34 poss hets that I had a heck of a time selling, ended up selling almost all to a local reptile shop in Vegas that pretty much sold at an indoor flea market, I shudder to think about the homes those babies went to). It was hard but I am so glad it all happened because it made this a hobby for me again.

I still breed my snakes every once in a while, probably more often now because all the babies I bought years ago are mature, but it's not my goal anymore. I also resigned myself to know that most of the babies I produce will probably have to be sold wholesale. Will I break even? nope! But it does help cover a couple months worth of food or alows me to do trades and get other snakes I want, so that's worth it to me. I love seeing little baby squirmers in the goo, knowing that I 'helped' make that possible by taking the best care I can of my critters.

Not much brings as much joy in my life as being able to go into the snake room and see all these beautiful colorful interesting creatures looking back at me.

 

[shrap]

But I'm still waiting for it to be fun again.

The second you take money out of the equation it will be. Almost the instant I decided to treat my beloved hobby like a business it stopped being fun. Honestly, I dont need 50 plus snakes, 20 plus clutches a year and some fat cash to be happy. I was happier when I had a dozen critters and a couple of clutches a year. And that is exactly what I am getting back to....... and have found happiness once again!

 

[shrap]

LMAO.... Still love ya bro

hehe, I am such an ass.

Its been too long since I have seen that big silly grin of yours. We need to hook up bro. (cant ya'll feel the man love)

PM or email me your show schedule for the Spring. I need a good excuse to catch an out of town show or two.

 

[SamanthaJane13]

Please-don't chew me a new azz...

I'm rather new to this vending/dealing end of a hobby that I've loved and dabbled in most of my 49 3/4 years.

5 years ago, I fell in love with the first crested gecko I saw.

After months of reading, researching, and learning, we purchased out FIRST.

Now, five years later, we've just closed our first breeding season, and have 37 cresties.

We made some mistakes last summer, and lost a bunch of eggs and hatchlings in the heat.

We've made changes and adjustments to improve hatch rates and hatchling survival rates.

We did our first herp show and sold 3 of the 12 geckos we took, but did a LOT of educating...we took our MBD gecko with us to show what a bad diet of baby food and meal worms can do to these beautiful animals. We also learned a lot about dealing at herp shows, so we walked away with a lot more than we went in with.

We're setting up our gecko room to get all the tanks out of the rest of the rooms. Gecko eyes staring at us in bed all night have my daughter and myself a bit squirrelly, so it's all for the best.

In the last two months, I've found 2 pet stores who WANT to stock our geckos, and prospects of two more!!!

This has me STOKED!!!

The last week, the MIRACLE happened.

A totally unknown member from another forum I belong to has approached me to let her make & host a WEBSITE for me!!

In exchange for one of my HATCHLINGS!!!

http://www.lakeeffectgeckos.com/

THAT'S ME & MY DAUGHTER!!!

I'm still gasping!!! I figured it would be at least a year before I would have a website, and then I'd have to pay an arm and a butt cheek for it!!

I have learned so much from these silly little ciliatus creatures!! I'm sure there's more of a reason why they have that name-other than the fact that it means "eyelash" which is one of their outstanding characteristics. I'm pretty sure that the guy who rediscovered them picked one up, saw that crazy gecko smile and those eyelashes any woman would KILL for, and said to the little gecko, "Aren't YOU a SILLY little thing!!".

I wake up every day to 37 smiling faces!!! Even when my daughter wakes on the wrong side of the bed, SOMETHING gives me a smile!! They're all my babies, even though at some point, I'll be selling many of them. I keep photo albums of each one-even the perfect little still-borne pinner that took part of my heart when I buried him under my rose bush.

These cute little guys have brought soooo many people together on forums. They've made people unite to help OTHER herpers by getting us to sign petitions, etc, against the dreaded reptile ban bills.

We're NOT just going stand by and let you snake guys get hurt, because when they're done with snakes, they'll be coming for the lizards, turtles and frogs.

But in the meantime, PLEASE!!

Don't rain on MY parade!!

I'm just getting started, and you make it sound like a reptile Armageddon is coming!!

And while some people are gnashing their teeth at each other, there are WONDERFUL people all over this hobby who make it a pleasure!!

For example, a member on Pangea lost a HUGE part of her collection during the summer heatwave...Pangea members helped...in SECRET.

http://www.pangeareptile.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26874

So remember-there ARE ANGELS out there, just as surely as there are demons.

This is NOT a hobby-it's a JOY!!!