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  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

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    Posted 08/15/2025
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    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

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    Addendum: 01/10/2026
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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

is this a desparate business in need of funds?

I can't believe people are still complining about what MKR is selling their snakes for.... I mean, is everyone that is against it saying that it isn't their RIGHT to sell them for the price he wants? Are you saying he should keep the price inflated so you can get your piece of the pie? I have an idea... How about you hold onto yours until all of HIS are gone and then once all the bargain basement prices are gone, BAM, you can sell them for 3000 again... it really isnt that hard. There are ALOT of people that want morphs like that and 800 is even alot for them, so really... who cares... he can sell them for 100 bucks if he wants.. And threatening bodilly harm to someone over a stupid snake... thats really mature... Kind of makes me sick that there are so many petty people involved in reptiles. Ill be sure not to do busines with someone that is willing to cause harm to someone over somthing as immature as this entire ordeal.
 
Wow.. this thread opened my eyes...

I've seen mention of people getting into the breeding business not knowing anything about operating a business to mention of MKR needing to be careful because they're receiving threats?

I am not a breeder, so take my words for what they are worth; as a consumer, they're worth a pretty penny, though.

These are co-dom morphs, and of course their investment isn't going to last as long as the recessive traits that first led to the ball python morph business. That doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out. Side note: comparing these to piebalds is comparing apples and oranges, too, so there's no point in using that as an example for those of you that are.

For those in the business a long time, investing in these co-dom morphs, maybe it's you who has no clue how to operate a business. These co-dom morphs should have never seen the high prices they did to begin with BECAUSE they are co-dom. I can see the the first year, but after that? Nope. The ball python market has dramatically changed, because now the hot morphs are easier to breed, shifting to the males being more valuable than the females. It obviously doesn't take X number of high dollar females to produce now, so it IS cheaper to produce them, and the selling price should definitely reflect that, why is that so hard to see???? If you didn't see this coming with the new co-dom traits, I reiterate my words "maybe it's you who has no clue how to operate a business."

Talk about MKR being greedy? Get real.. the greediness comes in trying to market these new morphs the same as the recessive trait morphs were marketed.

As for the mention of the threats to MKR and suggesting they shouldn't be at Daytona, that can be a big blow to the market itself. Big breeder or not, working at it for 20 years or not, that will definitely be a factor in determining where I send people to buy morphs from now on. I have always sent folks to the old-timers, but you can be damn sure I will be reading more from now on. After seeing these comments, MKR is who will be getting my vote and referrals, not the breeders who are blaming MKR for their poor planning and views of a market that should have been viewed differently from the first realization of these genetics.

MKR didn't do the damage, the choice to attack them will be their own downfalls. I have never sent anyone to MKR before, but you can be damn sure I will now.
 
Denise,

while I can't say that I agree in threatening them with any kind of bodily harm, I still have to say that I understand (and feel) the frustration of what MKR did. No one that has any kind of experience in this business was "expecting to", or even trying to market them in the same way as the recessive morhs, as you said. We all realize that the market on codoms will gradually decline. Eventually. No one expected to sell babies next year for what they paid for the Mohave last year, and if they did, well, yes, they have a lot to learn. But did YOU listen to MKR's sales pitch on how much the Mohaves and lessers, and in turn the supers will still be worth in the coming years? And then see them turn around and crap on everyone who ended up buying them?

There are people here that make their living from these animals, and that doesn't mean they don't do it for the love of the animals. But these folks HAVE to look at this as a business, and for someone to come in and purposely attempt to flood the market and crash the prices.....I can completely understand them being pretty darn upset. Then there's those like myself, who scrimped and saved to buy a snake that they truly found as awesome, and really hoped to be able to get a decent return from the investment, besides having that animal to enjoy for themselves. MKR crapped on them as well.

Sure, they have every "right" to sell the animals for whatever they want to. On the other hand, people have every right to be angry at them for undercutting them. I'm not sure how exactly you think MKR did nothing to "do the damage" , and I'm not sure how them not attending Daytona would be a blow to the market itself? And I'm REALLY not sure why them doing this would make you refer them to anyone. Fine, if you don't like what some "big breeders" have said about them, don't refer people to those who said things....but what has MKR done to actually EARN that referral, besides crapping on past customers?

I just keep wondering what morph they plan on sinking next. Personally, I was planning on investing in clowns this coming year (and actually contemplated buying them from MKR), but looking at the seeming mass-production of these coming out at MKR, I'm looking in other directions instead.
 
Cat_72 said:
Denise,

while I can't say that I agree in threatening them with any kind of bodily harm, I still have to say that I understand (and feel) the frustration of what MKR did. No one that has any kind of experience in this business was "expecting to", or even trying to market them in the same way as the recessive morhs, as you said. We all realize that the market on codoms will gradually decline. Eventually. No one expected to sell babies next year for what they paid for the Mohave last year, and if they did, well, yes, they have a lot to learn. But did YOU listen to MKR's sales pitch on how much the Mohaves and lessers, and in turn the supers will still be worth in the coming years? And then see them turn around and crap on everyone who ended up buying them?

There are people here that make their living from these animals, and that doesn't mean they don't do it for the love of the animals. But these folks HAVE to look at this as a business, and for someone to come in and purposely attempt to flood the market and crash the prices.....I can completely understand them being pretty darn upset. Then there's those like myself, who scrimped and saved to buy a snake that they truly found as awesome, and really hoped to be able to get a decent return from the investment, besides having that animal to enjoy for themselves. MKR crapped on them as well.

Sure, they have every "right" to sell the animals for whatever they want to. On the other hand, people have every right to be angry at them for undercutting them. I'm not sure how exactly you think MKR did nothing to "do the damage" , and I'm not sure how them not attending Daytona would be a blow to the market itself? And I'm REALLY not sure why them doing this would make you refer them to anyone. Fine, if you don't like what some "big breeders" have said about them, don't refer people to those who said things....but what has MKR done to actually EARN that referral, besides crapping on past customers?

I just keep wondering what morph they plan on sinking next. Personally, I was planning on investing in clowns this coming year (and actually contemplated buying them from MKR), but looking at the seeming mass-production of these coming out at MKR, I'm looking in other directions instead.
Click to expand...
Greed.. there is still the potential for a decent return on the investment of any of these snakes. Decent means profit in a business and any business you get into you should expect no profit for the first 2 years.

If I paid 2K for a pastel last year and only have one male to breed and I sell the babies for even the reduced price this year, it's not going to take that many to equal my 2K investment, even adding expenses into it. If I can't do it in one year, I can damn sure do it in two, which is still better than what is taught as the expected return in a new business. No, maybe I won't make 1K or 10-20K per snake like people are used to in the recessive morphs, but then again, I'm not all about greed.

Let's face it, the bp market has been dropping for a while with the main investments being albinos and piebalds anyway. They're 'old news' and the market was flooded with these already. So MKR should have set a limit on how many they produce so as not to upset the rest of the breeders?

You misunderstood what I said about the Daytona thing.. my comments were about them being threatened if they DO show up. Yeah, I really want to do business with people who resort to that kind of bullying. (insert sarcasm) Anyone threatening bodily harm because their turf isn't as successful as they planned on it being would be enough to do damage to the business of the one doing the threatening. Big breeders threatening bodily harm is worse, and will affect the market, because the little consumers like me will see that and do just what I did, decide to go elsewhere with the business.

Business is business, MKR and others like them breeding on a smaller scale got into the bp morph counting on these co-doms; they didn't get into the business when people were investing and breeding long term for the recessives. Their marketing will be different simply because of that, that's the way the ball bounces. It's the American way of enterprise.
 
Everyone buying morphs expects the prices to drop but say you bought a mojave from MKR for example last year and paid $2500. Then 6-8 months later they are selling the exact same thing that they sold you but for $800. You wouldn't be upset?

The days of 6 digit morphs are gone. So are the days with prices of 20K plus for a single animal. Everyone knows that who is breeding these animals.
It's just that some are producing tons of certain animals and dumping them on the market all at once a week before the largest reptile show takes place.

They should not be threatened with harm but I don't blame anyone who is pissed at them right now for pulling this stunt.
 
I am also curious to see how many of the people that think MKR did nothing wrong by unloading 50 mojaves at dirt cheap prices a week prior to Daytona actually has a significant amount of money tied up in BP morphs?
 
Morph King Reptiles

Please Let Me Clarify Something.in An Earlier Post I Mentioned Some Threats Made To Morph King Reptiles.that Was Not Me Making Any Threats Towards Them,i Was Simply Stating What I Heard At The Hamburg,pa.reptile Show From Several People That I Had Talked To.the People That Were Making These Threats Were Very Angry About The Business Practices Of Morph King Reptiles.i Would Never Take It That Far,simply Adjust My Prices And Move On. Peace Everyone !
 
SoulSmilen said:
Greed.. there is still the potential for a decent return on the investment of any of these snakes. Decent means profit in a business and any business you get into you should expect no profit for the first 2 years.

If I paid 2K for a pastel last year and only have one male to breed and I sell the babies for even the reduced price this year, it's not going to take that many to equal my 2K investment, even adding expenses into it. If I can't do it in one year, I can damn sure do it in two, which is still better than what is taught as the expected return in a new business. No, maybe I won't make 1K or 10-20K per snake like people are used to in the recessive morphs, but then again, I'm not all about greed.

Let's face it, the bp market has been dropping for a while with the main investments being albinos and piebalds anyway. They're 'old news' and the market was flooded with these already. So MKR should have set a limit on how many they produce so as not to upset the rest of the breeders?

You misunderstood what I said about the Daytona thing.. my comments were about them being threatened if they DO show up. Yeah, I really want to do business with people who resort to that kind of bullying. (insert sarcasm) Anyone threatening bodily harm because their turf isn't as successful as they planned on it being would be enough to do damage to the business of the one doing the threatening. Big breeders threatening bodily harm is worse, and will affect the market, because the little consumers like me will see that and do just what I did, decide to go elsewhere with the business.

Business is business, MKR and others like them breeding on a smaller scale got into the bp morph counting on these co-doms; they didn't get into the business when people were investing and breeding long term for the recessives. Their marketing will be different simply because of that, that's the way the ball bounces. It's the American way of enterprise.
Click to expand...

First of all.....I have these animals because I LIKE them. It has NOTHING to do with me being greedy, TYVM. And I'm not sure what the sentence, "Decent means profit in a business" actually means....?

And you still didn't answer my question, you siad that you never referred anyone to MKR in the past, but you will now. Why? They have done nothing different than they have in the past, besides crashing the Mohave market. What have they done to EARN that referral from you?

I'm also curious...which "big breeders" that you used to refer people to actually made threats? And where do you get the idea that MKR breeds on a "small scale"???? Do you have any idea how many animals they have/produce?

SPJ said:
I am also curious to see how many of the people that think MKR did nothing wrong by unloading 50 mojaves at dirt cheap prices a week prior to Daytona actually has a significant amount of money tied up in BP morphs?
Click to expand...

Steve, from what I've seen, I'd gather that about 99% of those who have posted here supporting what MKR has done does NOT have any significant amount of money already invested in Ball Pythons.
 
Daytona

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the original ad on KS selling the Mojaves for $800.00 say that Morph King was doing this because they were NOT going to Daytona? If it wasn't the Mojave ad I know it was in one of their ads. Is there a list of vendors in Daytona anywhere? Is Morph King on it?
 
SPJ said:
I am also curious to see how many of the people that think MKR did nothing wrong by unloading 50 mojaves at dirt cheap prices a week prior to Daytona actually has a significant amount of money tied up in BP morphs?
Click to expand...
It's no secret that I don't have any. I've stated many times that I think the BP market is unrealistically high. I have a set idea in my mind about how much I'll pay for ANY snake. It's not whether I can afford it or not. And no it doesn't mean I don't love my snakes and this hobby as much as somebody who pays 1000's or even 10,000's for one. I do see a few posts where well known breeders don't seem to have a problem with it, so it's not just "poor" people who are siding with the free market concept, and that think you can still make very good profit with these things even if it's not at a 10,000% profit margin.
 
Cat_72 said:
That was posted yesterday......look around BEFORE MKR posted theirs for that price, you won't find any like that. People figure they better unload what they have now.
Click to expand...
I thought I was the jaded, cynical person. You can probably go back any year before any expo (especially the biggest one) and find many similar sales. People have a set amount for what they put aside or are willing to spend at these things. It's the "american way" to try and get a hold of that money before it gets in that room with 150 (or whatever the numbers are)other tables. That sale MKR had was a blip, sold them before most even knew what was going on. The people who bought them were either people scooping them up because they knew they could turn around and make close to a 50% profit on them the next day, which I doubt was any, reading this thread, because it seems the complainers don't really think they are worth what they say or they would have done just that, or maybe as soulsmilen mentioned......greed, there was no 3 or 4 figure profit margin so forget 50% that is indignant. The other buyers, IMO are people who would not have bought them at the current "worth" under any circumstances. JMO, and since I don't own any five figure snakes, I'm sure it's easy to write me off as jealous or whatever, if that makes all the ranters feel better. I do know for a FACT that several big breeders who do, think this is much ado about nothing.
 
LOL, jaded and cynical? That's kind of amusing.

Sure, you saw sales before "the biggest one", but not like this. And if it was but a "blip", I don't think that we would have suddenly seen so many other folks drastically dropping their prices either. But then, for the MOST part, those that have dropped their prices to the same level are probably those that thought they were going to make a whole load of money off from them, and are panicking. No one said it was "poor" people complaining. I don't own the "five figure" snakes you keep talking about, I already stated I scrimped and saved to buy what I have. It has been stated repeatedly that no one who knows anything about the market expected to make 3 or 4 figure profit margins, but perhaps you missed that part of the posts. It keeps being insinuated that everyone who kept Mohaves or Lessers were completely ignorant about the normal, gradual decline in the price of codoms. There's a big difference between a normal decline and what MKR did.

People keep talking about knowing this and that which has been said by "big breeders", first they are making threats of bodily injury, now they think it's nothing, it can't be both? Soulsmilen isn't going to refer people to big breeders anymore because of the threats they made, but you say they think it's a blip. I'm confused. Which is it?

It all comes down to what MRK did was a crappy thing to do. Whether it was a "blip" as you seem to think or not, it was crappy. It just affects those of us who have invested more money into Ball Pythons more than those who haven't. Why is that so hard to understand? It doesn't make us greedy, or ignorant.....or jaded and cynical. :rolleyes:
 
Interesting, I just read on another forum that MKR was banned from KS. I went and looked and all their sponsor info is gone. They wouldn't say what they were banned for, just that they were banned.
 
Like Cat explained.
This was about buying one of these morphs last year only to see the value of it drop tremendously in a matter of months.
Everyone knows the prices will drop. This HUGE drop in price MKR made took everyone by surprise.
 
Cat_72 said:
People keep talking about knowing this and that which has been said by "big breeders", first they are making threats of bodily injury, now they think it's nothing, it can't be both? Soulsmilen isn't going to refer people to big breeders anymore because of the threats they made, but you say they think it's a blip. I'm confused. Which is it?:
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Which is it? I can see why you're confused. Apparently you don't think the different posters can have their own opinion or observations. Both obviously. Those are two different perspectives. Those that think it's a big deal are pissed and threatening bodily violence, those that think it's a blip think it's overblown pissing, and that eventually the overblown pricing will correct itself.

That's the blip yeah...hahahahhahahaha, good one. Blip as in they sold a handful of snakes and moved on, and wouldn't have even been noticed if not for this thread that is lasting a lot longer than the effects of their sale will ever have.
 
Morph King Reptiles-shot In The Foot

AFTER ALL THE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE MORPH KING REPTILES UNETHICAL BUSINESS PRACTICES .IT APPEARS THAT THEY HAVE HURT THEM SELVES WITH THEIR BLOW OUT SALES OF MOJAVES,LESSER PLATTYS AND A FEW OTHERS.ALL THE BREEDERS AND DEALERS WILL PROBABLY NEVER BUY FROM THEM AGAIN.THE PEOPLE THAT WERE PRO MKR BECAUSE OF THE ROCK BOTTOM PRICES,DO NOT HAVE THE EXPENSIVE MORPHS STILL ,AND MAYBE NEVER WILL BE ABLE TO BUY THEM.THEIR PHILOSOPHY OF PRICING FOR THE MASSES WAS INCORRECT.AN YET THE MARKET STILL CORRECTS ITSELF.CURRENT PRICING ON MOJAVES IS ABOUT $1000.00-$2000.00 PRETTY MUCH RIGHT WHERE IT SHOULD BE.MY EARLIER POST ABOUT THREATS AGAINST MKR WAS NOT INTENDED TO SOUND LIKE I WAS MAKING THE THREATS,BECAUSE THATS NOT THE CASE. ED CLARK :cool:
 
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