Is This a Direction Fauna Should Go?

[The NY Gecko]

Hey Chris- For the record, I have a life, although it sucks bigtime right now, I do have one. I have plenty of common sense and decency too. I am not a vulture and try to be kind to everyone. You can go back and read what I posted in your thread and I was never unkind to you, and I wasn't attacking you. I thought it was ok on Fauna to express our opinions and feelings on things posted here on this site? Every word I posted in your thread I meant; it's how I feel about it and I take nothing back. Just because I say what I feel and I am not afraid to say it, and above all because I am comfortable with people knowing how I feel, doesn't make me a vulture or some post flaming, unintelligent person.

Kelli, I mean no offense and I respect you alot, alot more than just about everyone on these forums, but I don't see where he mentioned anyones names at all. Don't take offense to this, I'm neutral on the issue at hand. Basically I don't care. But he didnt attack you in his post and he could be talking about someone else on here for all we know. I think fighting amongst the senior members like this will give fauna a bigger hit than some silly little thread thats got everyone worked up. If people come here and see fighting whats that look like. Someone could see that thread and go "oh, well, I'll just stay away from that section." But they come in here and see people going at each other and this might be the other response "F*** this im going home!" Do you get what I'm trying to say? I think that the lesson here is if you don't agree with someone and they didn't attack you or do anything to you that you should ignore them and not respond. All this from a guy lookin for some luvin', whats this world comin to?

 

[KelliH]

Chris, I got it and replied. Thank you for taking the time to write it.

 

[KelliH]

Kelli, I mean no offense and I respect you alot, alot more than just about everyone on these forums, but I don't see where he mentioned anyones names at all. Don't take offense to this, I'm neutral on the issue at hand. Basically I don't care. But he didnt attack you in his post and he could be talking about someone else on here for all we know. I think fighting amongst the senior members like this will give fauna a bigger hit than some silly little thread thats got everyone worked up. If people come here and see fighting whats that look like. Someone could see that thread and go "oh, well, I'll just stay away from that section." But they come in here and see people going at each other and this might be the other response "F*** this im going home!" Do you get what I'm trying to say? I think that the lesson here is if you don't agree with someone and they didn't attack you or do anything to you that you should ignore them and not respond. All this from a guy lookin for some luvin', whats this world comin to?

*sigh* Tom, I am NOT offended and I am NOT fighting with anyone. I am posting my feelings/opinions on a message board, that's all it is. Just because you disagree with someone or have a discussion with someone, that does not mean you dislike the person or are "fighting" with them. I'm a lover, not a fighter. Hmm, that line would be fitting in the LH Forum now wouldn't it ;-)

 

[The NY Gecko]

Send that one liner to lucille, shell post it for giggles.

 

[HerpLuver]

Kelli, I mean no offense and I respect you alot, alot more than just about everyone on these forums, but I don't see where he mentioned anyones names at all. Don't take offense to this, I'm neutral on the issue at hand. Basically I don't care. But he didnt attack you in his post and he could be talking about someone else on here for all we know.

Are you Psychic Tom? Seriously!

And now im starting to wonder if what Bill said earlier is true. That your an old wise man in a 15 yr old's body..... LOL

 

[KelliH]

You are right Tom, Chris never mentioned names and I did not assume he was specifically talking about me. He appeared to be speaking in general and not referring to one particular person or another. So I thought since I was one of the ones that replied to the original thread, it would be ok for me to respond to what Chris said. Sometimes we reply to threads even when they are not specifically pointed at us.

 

[The NY Gecko]

Its ok, its just that text doesnt convey tones and if you read it it did kinda sound like you felt like you were being singled out. Apologies.

 

[Karen Hulvey]

Here's what I'm getting from this thread: It's okay to solicit a sexual partner outside of marriage on a forum on this very site but not okay to call a scumbag a scumbag on any forum on this site.

To say I can't believe it is an understatement. But it's all here in B&W. As long as you don't use any bad words or call anyone any derogatory names apparently you can write anything.

I've read both of your (Rich & Lucille's) opinions on soliciting sex on this site. You both have decided that it is appropriate to allow the solicitation of sex. Whatever ya'll say goes but I don't have to agree with it. Soliciting sex is inappropriate for this site, IMO. This is not a sex site. That is MY opinion and I am entitled to it no matter what either of you two say.

And before Rich & Lucille post about me not having to click on that particular forum, yada, yada, yada, I have already read what you have written. You write the same old book over & over again if someone does not agree with you. See ya is basically what you write. It seems you two can't take any kind of criticism at all. If people aren't kissing up and brown nosing you, then they are crap on the bottom of your shoe and need to go elsewhere.

You two have a very weird kind of attitude about this site and the members of this site. It is something that I can't explain or put into words but it is not a good thing and it's getting worse.

 

[DeadIrishD]

In my opinion, if it is to be allowed can it be in either hell or its own forum, of which people cannot have easier acess too?

Rich or Lucille, say if you had a kid maybe 10 or so, and he snuck onto one of your names and read that, on another site would you as parents feel upset due to the easy access for kids to see things like that?

simple words 18 and over are not going to stop them, if anything may attract them even more, after all back when I was 12 that is why I started smoking. (I was not allowed too.)

 

[Dennis Hultman]

That is MY opinion and I am entitled to it no matter what either of you two say.

I may not agree with the post Chris made but this is just antagonistic and ridiculous. Of course you have your opinions and so does everyone else. It’s one thing to express them, another to be discourtesy while you do.

I have my personal believes that may differ from Lucille and probably would have made a different decision and had the other half Fauna angry with me. As a moderator, Lucille locked the thread. It was her decision to make. As the site owner, Rich made a compromise in regards to access to the forum. What would make you happy Karen?

And before Rich & Lucille post about me not having to click on that particular forum, yada, yada, yada, I have already read what you have written. You write the same old book over & over again if someone does not agree with you. See ya is basically what you write. It seems you two can't take any kind of criticism at all. If people aren't kissing up and brown nosing you, then they are crap on the bottom of your shoe and need to go elsewhere.

Neither Rich nor Lucille said anything of the sort in this thread. Again, It’s one thing to disagree and another to be down right obnoxious. You are entitled to your opinions as we all are but your not entitled to belittle members of this site because you disagree with them. That includes moderators and I would think Rich as well.

 

[Karen Hulvey]

Now I'm the bad guy. I didn't use any derogatory words, no foul language, therefore didn't break any rules.

They say they don't agree with sex solicitation but they leave it therefore they are condoning it.

What would make me happy? (like it really matters, LOL) Not allowing the solicitation of sex on a reptile site. Golly, that should be a no brainer.

Antagonistic and ridiculous? I hardly think so. I spoke the truth and the truth sometimes hurts. What is antagonistic and ridiculous is the callous regard for children. So what if Johnny hears worse at school, why present it for him here too? Any parent, in glancing at this site, would think it's okay for their kid to view. They would never, in a million years, think someone is soliciting for a menage a trois on THIS site, a reptile site.

They made a bad call by allowing the solicitation of sex to remain, closed thread or not.

 

[Lucille]

Now I'm the bad guy. I didn't use any derogatory words, no foul language, therefore didn't break any rules.

They say they don't agree with sex solicitation but they leave it therefore they are condoning it.

What would make me happy? (like it really matters, LOL) Not allowing the solicitation of sex on a reptile site. Golly, that should be a no brainer.

Antagonistic and ridiculous? I hardly think so. I spoke the truth and the truth sometimes hurts. What is antagonistic and ridiculous is the callous regard for children. So what if Johnny hears worse at school, why present it for him here too? Any parent, in glancing at this site, would think it's okay for their kid to view. They would never, in a million years, think someone is soliciting for a menage a trois on THIS site, a reptile site.

They made a bad call by allowing the solicitation of sex to remain, closed thread or not.

Karen,


Before I begin, there is no 'they'. I am the SOLE moderator in the Lonely Hearts Forum.

I think:
There is a presumption that parents, or someone over 18, who purchases the internet access, will monitor their own children. While I will not permit those who I know are under 18 to post, what they view is the responsibility of parents, teachers, and others who sign for Internet access.
In a famous case:
"communications over the Internet do not 'invade' an individual's home or appear on one's computer screen unbidden. Users seldom encounter content 'by accident'.

But that being said, I did make a concession in that I have changed the permissions for that forum so that only registered members can even see the Lonely Hearts forum, much less read anything in it. I have the registration (and have for a long time) set to refuse to allow registration of anyone 13 years old or younger. But if "little Johnnie" lies in order to get registered and then can read that forum, then that's just the breaks. There is no way to verify that information. I have no intention of trying to rubber baby buggy bumpering this site to try to please everyone's opinion of every thing they can think to complain about

I am surprised that you defend your own speech saying that your rudeness to myself and Webslave

If people aren't kissing up and brown nosing you, then they are crap on the bottom of your shoe and need to go elsewhere.

broke no rules,(this is arguable) yet take me to task for a post in which the posted speech was peaceable and broke no forum rules.

The forum is mine. I do not necessarily agree with all of the lifestyles presented, but from the very beginning there were those who posted their differences.

I am the sole arbiter of what is posted there. I certainly do not purport to understand everything pertaining to sex and relationships, but I will decide what goes in my forum. Period.

There are pages upon pages of fun polls, heartfelt discussions of relationships, many other people posting to meet boyfriends/girlfriends, and other interesting stuff. If you wish to obsess over this particular one post, be my guest. It stays, nevertheless.

You may if you wish begin a thread there exploring the differences between people. You will not be permitted, there, to make derogatory statements against people.

I would like to re-post an earlier post of mine, because it is again, apropos here:

I am grateful to the naysayers. Because they brought the thread up to the top so many times, and then established this thread here, I'm sure the LH stats are skyrocketing and that many people have subsequently chosen to visit my forum. I am pleased with the new traffic this thread has brought and hope that some that lurked in for a visit to LH because of this thread will continue to visit and read.
This controversy highlights differing viewpoints; and each of them eloquent and well thought out.
Many of my LH posts are humorous: sex is a difficult subject for many to discuss, but when it is couched in a funny poll, sometimes it is easier to approach and then explore.
Sex is a subject that brings heartache, joy, and obviously, controversy.
Each of us has a different way of approaching this important subject, and the interplay of ideas here underlines both our differences and our commonalities.

 

[The NY Gecko]

Now I'm the bad guy. I didn't use any derogatory words, no foul language, therefore didn't break any rules.

They say they don't agree with sex solicitation but they leave it therefore they are condoning it.

What would make me happy? (like it really matters, LOL) Not allowing the solicitation of sex on a reptile site. Golly, that should be a no brainer.

Antagonistic and ridiculous? I hardly think so. I spoke the truth and the truth sometimes hurts. What is antagonistic and ridiculous is the callous regard for children. So what if Johnny hears worse at school, why present it for him here too? Any parent, in glancing at this site, would think it's okay for their kid to view. They would never, in a million years, think someone is soliciting for a menage a trois on THIS site, a reptile site.

They made a bad call by allowing the solicitation of sex to remain, closed thread or not.

No you didn't break any rules but I can still see it was disrespectful. Rich works hard on this site so we can all use it and learn from one another. Heres something I just noticed, this forum is at the almost very top. And before someone actually joins they might wanna hear feedback on the forum. And whats this? Oh gee, look, its the first thread about the direction faunas going. HELLO! That outta sound some sort of red alert. Regardless of what you think it was, it was antgonistic and rediculous. I think what you said could've been handled better by just sending that out to all the mods instead of trying to publicly embarass them. Stop agreeing to disagree, just dont even go there to begin with. As wrong as you think it is, Rich is right in saying you don't have to read it. And if a 10 yr old did wander on here and registered. That means theyd be lieing and saying they are 13 therefore breakin the rules.

 

[WebSlave]

So, to answer the original question "Is This a Direction Fauna Should Go?", no it is not going that way at all. And in my opinion, the question was posed simply to cause conflict as it is nonsensical. One thread does not indicate a trend for the entire site. One forum does not set the pace for the rest of this site to follow. Rational and mature individuals will be cognizant of this fact, I would think.

The Lonely Hearts Club Forum was set up to be a playful and interesting area for like minded adults to participate in under the guardianship of the moderator there. And yes, sex is part of that equation. Anyone who doesn't believe sex has a huge part of interpersonal relationships of the kind that the LH forum was designed to address is being extremely naive, at best. No it's not for everyone, and wasn't designed to be so. If it's not for you, stay out of there. If you wish to be the moth attracted to the flame, then don't come crying to me if you get your toes burned.

As for the issue of children, this site never was, and never will be, designed to accommodate children as a targeted audience. It is designed to attract adults or at least mature acting individuals, and is my preference for the audience here. I do not allow other people's children to run my life and nor will I allow them to run this site. If they wish to, or their parents allow them to, visit here, it is upon their own heads to choose where they wish to go via their own voluntary selections. No post, no thread, and no forum here opens up automatically when someone visits this site. I am not their daddy. It is not my job to shield them from one of the aspects of life in general. If parents are concerned about the subject matter that their tender eyes may come across on the internet, then I suggest that those parents monitor such children constantly to keep them awayfrom whatever it is that you think may damage their minds. That is not my job, it is yours. YOU keep their fingers off of the mouse button when the mouse pointer is on a place you think may not be appropriate for their eyes.

Lucille has my full support and backing about how she chooses to run her own forums. If that were not true, then she would not be moderating them. I believe I have displayed sufficient evidence that I will withdraw such support from any moderator that fails to retain my confidence that they are acting within the boundaries of what I believe to be in the best interests of this site. Until that time, what she says is what it will be there.

And as one member pointed out, which is apparently a concept that is difficult for some members to comprehend, I have mentioned already that no one HAS to go where they are uncomfortable going. That includes, any post, any thread, any forum, any category here, or any site (including this one) in general for that matter. And yes, I do say this a lot, because apparently this message cannot get through to some people. I have no trouble figuring out sites and places that I don't like and how not to go there, but apparently not everyone else is graced with this ability.

Nothing I do on this site will ever please everyone. Those who are not pleased do not have to remain here to participate within it. Sorry to see you leave, but that's just your tough luck that you are among the minority this time that does not agree with one of my decisions. It was either you or someone else that would get pissed off, so I guess that's just the way it is for you. If you find one forum on this site of sufficient distress to you simply because it is here, then it is your choice to make about what you wish to do about it. It is NOT going to leave because of you, so if it gives you sufficient reason to leave this site, well I am sorry about that, but that is your decision to make.

 

[Fangthane]

I think what is pissing people off maybe more than the original thread itself is the way you (webslave) and lucille have chosen to belittle and insult those of us that have the audacity to question you. Obviously it's your site to do with as you wish..but to be outright dismissive and condescending to us for our belief that ads for gang-bangs don't belong here is pretty damn spiteful and in itself bordering on antagonism. You say that we're in the minority..I'm not so sure of that. I think the case may be more along the lines of people realizing that it's pointless to disagree with you, so they don't say anything at all. Add in the obligatory stampede of people that are all too happy to come here and score some points by telling you how right and wonderful you are and the whole concept of an open discussion is blown to hell. Clearly you and those you have surrounded yourself with are very intelligent people that have a gift with words and a talent for spin. And as I'm an insignificant nobody with no MONEY to offer you I won't be taken seriously and will most likely be sumarily ridiculed for my thoughts. Sometimes it just seems like you're graduates of the TSE School for Customer Service..but what do I know..I've wasted enough time pissing in the wind..I'll go to the back of the line where I clearly belong.

 

[WebSlave]

I think what is pissing people off maybe more than the original thread itself is the way you (webslave) and lucille have chosen to belittle and insult those of us that have the audacity to question you. Obviously it's your site to do with as you wish..but to be outright dismissive and condescending to us for our belief that ads for gang-bangs don't belong here is pretty damn spiteful and in itself bordering on antagonism. You say that we're in the minority..I'm not so sure of that. I think the case may be more along the lines of people realizing that it's pointless to disagree with you, so they don't say anything at all. Add in the obligatory stampede of people that are all too happy to come here and score some points by telling you how right and wonderful you are and the whole concept of an open discussion is blown to hell. Clearly you and those you have surrounded yourself with are very intelligent people that have a gift with words and a talent for spin. And as I'm an insignificant nobody with no MONEY to offer you I won't be taken seriously and will most likely be sumarily ridiculed for my thoughts. Sometimes it just seems like you're graduates of the TSE School for Customer Service..but what do I know..I've wasted enough time pissing in the wind..I'll go to the back of the line where I clearly belong.

Dan, you are welcome to interpret whatever I say however you choose to do so. If I choose to surround myself with people with an obvious interest in being beneficial and helpful to this site, and try to discourage those being here who seem to have more of an interest in being just plain abusive and disruptive, then yes, I feel I have that right, as well as the desire, to do so. I don't mind listening to opinions contrary to mine. I don't mind people telling me I am wrong. But that right of theirs gives them the obligation to receive my rebuttals in return. I am not obligated to agree with them. They are not obligated to agree with me. But since I call the shots, whether they agree or not, they have to either accept my decisions or go elsewhere more accommodating to their desires. That is a simple fact of life.

However, when the discussions turn abusive towards me and belittling of my decisions, rather then just a civil dialog, then I may very well take offense at that and not really make much effort to disguise that fact. If that offends some people, then so be it. If they feel I do not have human emotions just like everyone else here, then I am not concerned about their illogical view of the situation. The solution to that problem is to not slap me alongside the face unless you are willing to get slapped right back. And if I feel the best solution to My problem with YOU is to just remove YOU from the equation, trust me, I WILL do just that. There is no law in the universe which says I have to put up with you HERE, regardless of the crap you think you can shovel towards me. You are welcome to express your opinions here, but that only goes so far...... If you can be uncivil to me, don't be very surprised if I turn uncivil towards you.

 

[reptilebreeder]

I think:
There is a presumption that parents, or someone over 18, who purchases the internet access, will monitor their own children.

Good parents do. The problem is while I monitor my children's activities and decide what is right and wrong, one wouldn't think that a reptile site would have to be monitored for sex solicitation ads. In a post above Rich noted he wants this to be a site for adults, so that's that. I think it's a shame, as I got into reptiles at about the age of 14, it's those prime years that are really fun and turn into (for me) a lifetime endeavour. I think this site would have been a good starting point for teens to utilize towards this great hobby.

As keeps being brought up.........sure children are exposed to worse in everyday life, but this is a fauna community (with emphasise towards herps) IMHO they shouldn't be exposed to it here. Like as long as they can find porno magazines in the trash and look at them, I should be thankful that they "only" have to see solicitations for sex, here. You don't need to reiterate your 18 and over "rules" as those IMHO are totally bogus in the ability to access this forum. A false sense of a "fuzzy feeling" that it is the right thing to do (impose a [non enforceable] rule).

 

[jglass38]

I have to agree with Mike and say that there appears to be much more in that forum that could be considered offensive by some then a guy and girl looking to add a third, willing participant to their marriage. I have said before and i'll say again that I see no use for the lonely hearts forum on a herp site but if you are going to have it, then let it fly unless it violates the TOS of the particular forum or the site as a whole. But we will always have the morality/religion police won't we?

 

[The NY Gecko]

I think what is pissing people off maybe more than the original thread itself is the way you (webslave) and lucille have chosen to belittle and insult those of us that have the audacity to question you. Obviously it's your site to do with as you wish..but to be outright dismissive and condescending to us for our belief that ads for gang-bangs don't belong here is pretty damn spiteful and in itself bordering on antagonism. You say that we're in the minority..I'm not so sure of that. I think the case may be more along the lines of people realizing that it's pointless to disagree with you, so they don't say anything at all. Add in the obligatory stampede of people that are all too happy to come here and score some points by telling you how right and wonderful you are and the whole concept of an open discussion is blown to hell. Clearly you and those you have surrounded yourself with are very intelligent people that have a gift with words and a talent for spin. And as I'm an insignificant nobody with no MONEY to offer you I won't be taken seriously and will most likely be sumarily ridiculed for my thoughts. Sometimes it just seems like you're graduates of the TSE School for Customer Service..but what do I know..I've wasted enough time pissing in the wind..I'll go to the back of the line where I clearly belong.

Thats funny, I don't know Rich, havent payed him and yet I still will say its ok? Why? Because it is. Dont click the post if its going to piss you off, its what I do. If I saw the topic "what do you shoot? (besides your load)?" id laugh, in fact, when i saw it, i did. Humor can be found everywhere, you just have to look for it. If its blatantly obvious it aint hilarious. Or maybe i wouldve ignored it all together.

 

[hhmoore]

Wow - talk about a disruption in the Force

Things have gotten UGLY around here.

I think we all saw this coming (at least to a degree) at the start of this thread. While in poor taste, the title of the thread in the Photography forum seems to be of relatively little interest here. Clearly the focus is on the appropriateness of the FWB thread in Lonely Hearts. Sexuality is possibly a bigger hotbed (sorry) than religion. Prior to that particular posting, the Lonely Hearts forum was comprised mostly of lighthearted banter. Sure, there was the random post by somebody looking for like-minded people in their areas...but not as many as I expected when I saw the title and opening statement. Many of the threads involve topics that some people consider inappropriate for discussion on a public forum, especially a special interest site (that is not geared toward that particular topic); but how often have people raised a fuss about them? They exist, in moderate obscurity, because people that didn't wish to take part in the discussions didn't. Why is this one different? Because it is an outright solicitation for an intimate partner? Because it represents beliefs and a lifestyle that are foreign to many of us? Because it violates some people's sense of morality? Yes, Yes, and Yes...all those reasons AND MORE. The arguments can, and have, been made that there is no reason to have that forum on a reptile site...but the same can be said for Just For Laughs, Sound Off, General BS, Mammals, Birds, Plants, Fish, Computer, Paranormal, etc, etc, etc. If these areas don't interest us, we don't have to go to them. If you see something you don't like, close it. Yes, sometimes things merit a response...and maybe this is one of them, but this seems to be on a downward spiral.
Personally, while not offended by the initial posting, I didn't think it was appropriate. I remember thinking that it wouldn't go over well (how's that for an understatement). People expressed their feelings, but when the forum mod and site admin didn't acquiesce, they were unable (or unwilling) to accept it and move on. It turned personal. I will admit that I have formed a bond with some of the members, and I like the family/community mentality that pervades the site...but that doesn't mean I think that Rich should be obligated to change something because I am unhappy with it. While I think that discussion of "hot topics" is a part of this site we have come to expect, I think that this whole thread was probably a bit premature. I mean no offense to the original poster, but the majority of Fauna members (and visitors) probably never read the 2 highlighted posts...and, in all likelihood, both would have been buried in short order. If either of them, singly or combined, had led to more postings of a similar nature...well, then we would have reason to be having these discussions. Perhaps, the admin and moderators would even see things differently.
I just realized how longwinded this is, so it is time to close. I feel fairly safe in saying that anyone that might have considered a similar post has probably changed his/her mind...unless somebody does it for the sole purpose of resparking the controversy. And to the nature of some of the postings - I certainly hope that the hostilities here draw to a close in the near future, preferably before people start voluntarily leaving the site, getting removed, or what have you.