is usark over stepping its rights by proposing rules for states without asking us

[FosterHerpetological]

I give you credit for doing something. I respect that initiative. You don't like the majority plan and you are free to do so. I don't fault you for that. However take this as constructive criticism to your plan of action. The only disagreement is running a smear campaign against H$U$. Why try to smear their name when the basic truth will suffice? With groups like HW doing a fine job you can concentrate those funds and resources to other areas.

Yea, I agree. IMO, there is no need for a smear campaign, the truth will most likely get the job done.

 

[FosterHerpetological]

But I do have respect for you for taking action. Not many actually do.

 

[Gary O]

Join the fight? That is the thing... I have been fighting these things for years. The laws and bills are nothing new. We fight them all the time. The only difference is now we have a place called USARK that is helping us fight. Is everything with USARK perfect? NO... But no one is perfect....

I can not honestly think of a year we have not face something.

 

[Taking Up Serpents]

Well, I'd say the radio show went well. When asked USARK's stance on the reptiles listed on Phillips proposed bill (HB352), he said "remove all reptiles" and reiterated that.
You also don't have to join. But please get on the mailing list to keep up with what's going on. If you don't keep aware of what's going on, it may be too late.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

HW fights the HSUS tooth and nail, WITHOUT a smear campaign.

If you try to run an opposition with a smear campaign, it makes it look like you have no legitimate complaints against HSUS. Use the truth against them, there's plenty of truth to make them look horrible, without making up anything. So using smear tactics hurts your position.

Perhaps you didn't mean a 'smear' campaign, but simply pointing out all the sleazy stuff HSUS does do?

You can also spread education about reptile keeping by pointing out the actual statisitics. I believe HW or USARK has a flier that points out the super low numbers of reptile incidents vs dogs or cats or horses. It's extremely effective in opening people's eyes.

 

[Cat_72]

See now there ya go, Rodney...we can all respect someone who is actually coming up with a plan of action, and actually ACTING on it. The ability to sit down and rationally discuss this plan, and what parts of it will work and those that won't - even better.

My suggestion would be to not just inform people about the HSUS, but incorporate that together with some good factual information about reptile keeping, and why the HSUS is clueless. In my experience, people are more receptive to this kind of info when they know WHY you are giving them this info - that you are not just on a "witch-hunt" against the HSUS as such, but that you have legitimate involvement and personal concerns in the matter. Kind of a more "big-picture" sort of thing...sure, there are actually plenty of people out there that in some sense know that the HSUS is in many respects a load of manure, but don't realize how and why it actually can personally affect many people. You know, the whole "yeah well it doesn't affect ME, so why should I care?" sort of mentality.

 

[rodneynboalich]

a smear campaign is when you try and show some one in a negative light. fortunately hsus is so corrupt that we dont need to lie and about anything to do a smear campaign just put out as many fact as we can. thats what a meant. i didnt mean we should go around saying wyane pacelle is a baby rapist or anything like that

 

[Gary O]

The way to attack is always to show that we are above what they do.

WE do not need to smear we need to educate.

Knowledge is going to be the downfall of them if we can keep calm and educate the ones that will listen or we will be just like any other system...

I do not want to hear how bad the other side is. I want to here how great one side is and what it can do for everyone around.

Like The reptile business helps the economy.

The Reptile Business Employs people

The reptile hobby does not harm people

Educate about said species.

SHow the GOOD side of our hobby.

YOu can do more with kindness then you can with evil.

WE are not animals... We do not need to lower ourselves to their level to win.

 

[rodneynboalich]

The way to attack is always to show that we are above what they do.

WE do not need to smear we need to educate.

Knowledge is going to be the downfall of them if we can keep calm and educate the ones that will listen or we will be just like any other system...

I do not want to hear how bad the other side is. I want to here how great one side is and what it can do for everyone around.

Like The reptile business helps the economy.

The Reptile Business Employs people

The reptile hobby does not harm people

Educate about said species.

SHow the GOOD side of our hobby.

YOu can do more with kindness then you can with evil.

WE are not animals... We do not need to lower ourselves to their level to win.

if you think knowledge and common sense reigns supreme in this country you need to wake up and take a look around. this country is full of people that dont care about facts. thats why hsus has been so successful

 

[rodneynboalich]

i think htis thread has been highly useless. so let say taht i know agree with all of you and bmp's are the way to go. lets discuss them and why they will work and lets see if there are any issues inherent in them that need fixed before they are enacted.

so why are bmp's good

what will they bring about

why problems will they resolve

and most importantly what new problems could they bring about.

please refrain for hypotheticals and claims that have no empirical data to back them.

for example saying bmp's will work because they rational sense or because they just will is not proof.

if we are to be fair we need to discuss this within the rules of argumentation. simply have an opinion is not adequate proof for anything and if you propose an argument or explanation and an argument is brought against it you must address it not just go off on another issues. so if anyone can propose an argument for bmp's that is sound i will accept it.


personally i dont think the real problem is with the bmp's. i think its the implications of them that pose the greatest threat.

so enough of us just throwing our opinions at each other and i i ask these questions


so why are bmp's good

what will they bring about

why problems will they resolve

and most importantly what new problems could they bring about.

 

[Lucille]

i think htis thread has been highly useless.

We've had good people weigh in here. We have a dialogue going, and there have been some thoughtful answers

i would be more than glad to hand out some infraction to some people on here

This last post of yours as well as many others seems to show you as an extremely controlling person.

webslave im glad to see i got ban for a couple days for doing something you mods do.

Way to talk back

im done with this internet bs. im done with forums and all of it. i use to stay away from forums and so on and i need to go back to staying away. the losers that frequent them are just that losers that want to fight and argue. you people are a fu*** joke

 

[Gary O]

if you think knowledge and common sense reigns supreme in this country you need to wake up and take a look around. this country is full of people that dont care about facts. thats why hsus has been so successful

I have fought with knowledge and common sense from day one. And I like to think that the things I have done for Ohio in the past help keep these very things away. SO you say it can not be done.... I have done it.

 

[Gary O]

I do not understand why people think if things do not go their way 100% that it is wrong.

We need to do what is best for everyone. I am a HOT keeper. Or I should say I was a hot keeper. I got rid of my pride and joys for my new pride and joy my family. Not because I was worried my snakes would get out and bite them. But what would they do if I was bitten and did not make it. I would leave a very large collection to them they do not know how to handle.

I have fought these things over and over. I never once smeared anyone. I used common sense and knowledge. Brought up the taxes the hobby brings to the states. bring up the education it beings to the state.

I do not want to tell everyone how bad HSUS is. AS that is just a waste of time. I want to take my time and tell them how great my hobby is. My it be an ANOLE or a Corn snake maybe even a turtle.

It is not a right to own a snake. But then again I say I live in this great country and I pay my dues. I should be able to own what I want when I want. But that is for another thread as I think this country is not educating themselves when it comes to electing our leader.

So in the end. I will continue to educate anyone that will listen. I will tell them about how great my hobby is. I will stand infront of anyone that will listen. Because without knowledge you walk blindly

 

[raptorfrog]

I almost never post despite reading a ton. As a DIRECT result of this thread I have just become a paid member of USARK within the last 10 minutes. I valued all of this discussion, both what I agreed with as well as what I disagreed with, as it resulted in lots of dialog. That said....some of it I valued because it added good info to my "Do/Don't buy from" lists.

To anyone that storms off because everyone doesn't come to the same personal conclusion after a lively discussion I usually say "Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya". However, today I will refrain as I have not contributed enough to this community with my 3 posts to be comfortable saying it.....

Chris

 

[Taking Up Serpents]

Previous post- Page 13 Post#130

With hots they need locking/latching enclosures, species names and venomous reptile on containers/enclosures and a bite protocol with species name and anti-venom in case EMS finds you face down on your reptile room floor. You can print out these from some hot keeping websites.
Crocs and big constrictors should have locking/latching enclosures and the name of species on containers or enclosures. This makes sense, I don't want to see burm in tanks with bricks or books holding down the top. Never a good thing.
Escape notifications on everything should you have something make it out of the house. Also, even if you are bitten by your venomous, as long as it is found you complied with caging standards and bite protocols, you'll get it back should you recover.

I'm done repeating myself here. There is enough information on all 20 pages of this thread to help anyone decide which way to lean. You want to keep hots, big 5 and whatnot with bricks or books to prevent escapes then go ahead. You don't think a bite protocol is necessary, whatever.
This horse gets beat any more and you'll have to do a DNA test to know it was equine.

 

[rodneynboalich]

i think its amazing that when i say let not argue and talk about usark and model legislation and some issues with it and i say let have a few rules for the discussion like if you make a statement you will have to explain yourselves and simply repeating what someone said is not proof, you all back away. just like you have all backed away from the question that started this tread in the first place.

i wouldnt have such a problem with usark and andrew wyatt if he would come out and say what he is instead of masquerading as the industries savior and pretending that hes representing all of us.

the truth is usark is basically a lobbying group, lobbying groups get paid to push the agendas of their backers. namely zoo med that pretty much sells junk you find in pet stores. namely the people in the industry usark isnt representing is the breeders if usark was then usark would not be recommending model legislation or if usark was truly representing all of us, and at the same time looking to make sure all reptiles have the best possible living conditions the would recommend bmp's for all of them. but that would have a very negative affect on companies like zoo meds and the ball python and gecko breeders is know zoo meds produces were under scrutiny of the law and if all the ball python breeders had to get all their ball pythons registered, usark would not get the financial backing from these people.

i challenge andrew wyatt to come on here and say he is fairly representing the the whole industry, including the breeders.

 

[rodneynboalich]

We've had good people weigh in here. We have a dialogue going, and there have been some thoughtful answers




This last post of yours as well as many others seems to show you as an extremely controlling person.



Way to talk back

way to talk back. i got ban for using a swear word and i misspelled it because i thought we could do that because i saw hhmoore do it. but it turns out that not all generally accepted swear words are considered so on here. turns out web slave dosnt consider piss a swear word so everyone can use piss on here as much as you like.

 

[rodneynboalich]

We've had good people weigh in here. We have a dialogue going, and there have been some thoughtful answers




This last post of yours as well as many others seems to show you as an extremely controlling person.



Way to talk back

Way to talk back

this is why i hate forums because its full of people like you. i ask that we stop arguing and really start talking about bmp's and some issues surrounding them and you try and start a fight with thinks for mostly other threads. so heres the questions that i think need discussed. if you dont wish to discuss them fine. just say that you dont want to and you would rather try and start a fight instead of engaging it a rational conversation.

so why are bmp's good

what will they bring about

what problems will they resolve

and most importantly what new problems could they bring about.

please refrain for hypotheticals and claims that have no empirical data to back them.

 

[Focal]

way to talk back. i got ban for using a swear word and i misspelled it because i thought we could do that because i saw hhmoore do it. but it turns out that not all generally accepted swear words are considered so on here. turns out web slave dosnt consider piss a swear word so everyone can use piss on here as much as you like.

I love the way you fabricate! You didn't just use a swear word ... you insulted a member by calling them a name that was a swear word (unprovoked mind you), similar to the way children act. You deserved the ban.

 

[rodneynboalich]

Previous post- Page 13 Post#130

With hots they need locking/latching enclosures, species names and venomous reptile on containers/enclosures and a bite protocol with species name and anti-venom in case EMS finds you face down on your reptile room floor. You can print out these from some hot keeping websites.
Crocs and big constrictors should have locking/latching enclosures and the name of species on containers or enclosures. This makes sense, I don't want to see burm in tanks with bricks or books holding down the top. Never a good thing.
Escape notifications on everything should you have something make it out of the house. Also, even if you are bitten by your venomous, as long as it is found you complied with caging standards and bite protocols, you'll get it back should you recover.

I'm done repeating myself here. There is enough information on all 20 pages of this thread to help anyone decide which way to lean. You want to keep hots, big 5 and whatnot with bricks or books to prevent escapes then go ahead. You don't think a bite protocol is necessary, whatever.
This horse gets beat any more and you'll have to do a DNA test to know it was equine.

and thats all you have done is repeat yourself. yes bmp's make rational sense at face value. we all know that.

so heres a question. how will they be enforced and who will be enforcing them and when animals do get confiscated will these people have the mean to care for them. there were some people out in ca ( cant think of their names and i try to get them for you) that had their animals taken and the animals were taken to a warehouse and sat there until it was ruled that they were not breaking the law but by that time all the animals had died and they had to sue the state. and that also raise another the comes directly for the aforementioned issues once you have had your animals taken and the people in charge of taking kill them because they dont know what they are doing lawsuits come into play. now most people cant afford $20,000 worth of lawyers and court cost. now since usark set up the model legislation that caused you animals to get taken and die form the result of this model legislation being place in the hands of unqualified people, will usark take represent you in a court of law if you cant afford to do so yourself.

taking up serpents you have probably been the biggest cheerleader of bmp's in this thread so i think you should be the one to enlighten us all on this matter. and dont worry you wont be repeating your self in answering this.

PS. if you feel you cant answer this you could get in touch with usark and see what they have to say, or better yet let usark know that you think this question needs answered and you fell you arnt the one to do so and maybe they could come on here and give us an answer.