Issues with Big Apple Ceramic Heat Emitters - Opinions very welcome

[ccthera]

I have been having some interesting issues with my BAH CHEs. I initially bought a 250W and a 150W bulb. I was very satisfied with the amount of heat they gave off. But confused on how they seemed to always come loose in their fixtures, but really didn't think it was anything. Slowly over the span of 8 months on both bulbs the ceramic part came loose from the metal socket end and eventually the bulb fell free. My bulbs were never moved and other than the occassional, gentle retightening I had to do. They weren't dropped or anything. I removed both bulbs from their sockets and discovered something interesting. The silverish metal ends of both bulbs had "mushroomed". I contacted BAH who supplied me with a replacement 250W at a discount, I opted not to replace the 150W since I was able to get it somewhat functional and didn't see needing it for much longer anyway.
During the interm I used an older ZooMed CHE bulb in the fixture that the 250W BAH was in, and it's still there (and in use). When I recieved the replacement I put it into an identical fixture.
Today I noticed the replacement bulb had become loosened in the socket and when I bumped the cage it make sparking noises. Alarmed, I immediately unplugged the fixture, allowed the bulb to cool an examined it. It had also mushroomed at the end as did the first.
Out of curiousity I checked the ZooMed bulb, who had been in the socket of the 1st BAH for about 2 weeks LONGER than this new replacement has been in it's own. It still looks as good as it did when I bought the thing... in 1999!
I have limited knowledge of electricity and the like. My boyfriend is a mechanic and has suggested their might be a problem with the material BAH is using for the ends of their bulbs.
These changes in the bulbs scream to be that these are a definate safety issue!
MY question is has anyone else noted any of these changes in their BAH CHE bulbs? Do you have any insite on this matter?

I have contacted BAH for their take on it and am awaiting reply. Since they didn't seem to worried when I contacted them about the problems with the first two, I doubt I'll get much with this one either.

below are photos of the bulbs....
First two ...2857 & 2858 are the old bulb
3rd ...2859 is the replacement
4th ...2861 is the ZooMed bulb for comparison

 

[Junkyard]

Have you sent these pictures to BAH, or did you just tell them about the problem?

 

[Greg Riso]

You've Got To Be Kidding

There's little doubt the ceramic heat emitting devices they are selling are not only defective, THEY ARE AN EXTREME SAFETY HAZARD! The pics show an obvious problem with the materials used melting or deforming with use. It is evident the metal used on the end of each unit pictured has melted and deformed to the point where it could possibly contact the metal on the other side of the porcelain insulating material which could cause an electrical fire or shock. Are you using the correct fixtures BAH recommends to hold them? Everything is specified here if these are indeed the same units: http://www.bigappleherp.com/Reptile..._Ceramic_Emitters_108105.html#descriptionLink
You need to make them aware IMMEDIATELY by showing them the pics posted above. There clearly appears to be a risk possible from use of their product. Are these products UL (Underwriters Laboratories) approved? http://www.ul.com/ If not, they should be.
If you've notified BAH of this problem complete with pics listed above and they chose to do nothing about it they could be liable for any damages incurred. From the safety aspect of human and animal's lives being placed in jeopardy as well as material property, this could cost BAH a lot of money should a lawsuit occur as a result of their negligence.
If you have not already done so, I STRONGLY ADVISE YOU DICONTINUE USING THESE PRODUCTS IMMEDIATELY! Make BAH aware of this thread and demand a full refund for every dollar you've spent on their defective products. A mere discount or replacement with more defective product is unacceptable and out of the question unless they can provide you with a comparable safe alternative product from another source. Any replacement offered should be UL listed and approved to better guarantee safety.
I recommend you take these steps and let us know the outcome. IMHO a full recall of these devices is in order and/or at the very least any further sales of these items should be suspended.
For them to say their product is superior to others on the market is very misleading. IMHO it is just a matter of time before an accident occurs if something hasn't happened already and we're just not aware of it.

 

[ccthera]

I have one of the "recommended" fixtures from BAH, which BTW is only recommended based on the size and weight of the 250W and ONLY suggested for that size. It does not state anywhere for using it with any other bulb size.

The changes in the bulb happened with both the BAH fixture and another fixture (from Lowes). All fixtures I use are UL listed to 250W. I do not however know if the bulbs are.

All information posted here have been supplied to BAH. I am looking for more people experiencing the same issues.

 

[ccthera]

Here is my reply from BAH:

Heather,

I looked up your account and see that all the ceramics that you have are over a year old except for the 250 watt which was replaced a few months ago.

I looked up our return rate for the last 6 months...

0 returns on 100 watt

0 returns on 150 watt

2 returns on 250 watt

These are very low numbers for issues on our ceramics. I am really not sure what might be the issue for ceramic heating elements that are occurring at your home but if you like I will apply a $15 house credit which you can use towards the purchase of a 250 Watt Zoo Med Ceramic. Perhaps you will have better luck with their 250 watt unit.



Sincerely,



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Andy

Director Of Internet Services

Big Apple Herpetological, Inc.

http://www.bigappleherp.com

800-92-APPLE

---------------------------------
Notice he doesn't take into account that people may not notice the problems with their bulbs until months to over a year later. I plan on calling him and explaining that he should take this a bit more seriously, or he could end up with a law suit when someone's house burns down.

 

[ccthera]

UL Listing

I was unable to find a UL listing on the bulbs or their packaging (I still had a box sitting around).

Seriously, can anyone think of how the heck a 5+ year old ZooMed brand bulb could outlive a supposed "superior" bulb? This is rediculous, and I don't think $15 credit is at all fair. I am seriously unhappy with their products, I want a refund, not a new product. They do NOT deserve my money what so ever. They don't appear to be willing to investigate the safety of their products. They care apparently about getting your money, and not about you. That's my opinion.

 

[Greg Riso]

That's Pretty Lame

The fact that nobody else has returned to many doesn't mean a thing. First of all those numbers of returns you've been given may be total BS. Remember there are three basic mistruths, lies, damned lies, and statistics. Some people just toss items in the garbage when they quit working properly rather than hassle trying to get a refund. Another thing is perhaps a fire has already occurred and the evidence was obliterated from the inferno. The amount of money you're talking about getting a refund on is so small it's absurd they only want to give you a $15 credit towards a real product. You'd think they'd want to sweep this one under the rug as quickly, cheaply, and easily as possible. If one home or collection is destroyed the cost could be considerably more if their product is found to be at fault after they have been advised about a potential problem and chose to ignore it. If someone looses their life what amount of money is that worth? BAH should issue a full refund as this has been a recurring problem for you. IMHO they're fools if they don't.

 

[Junkyard]

Just a couple of thoughts. Is there a recommended replacement time on the ceramic heaters? UV bulbs says every 6 months.

Knowing you had a new bulb go out on you I understand the immediate problem and a lifespan is not relevent. I would contact the BBB about this, cars that are faulty are recalled years after they are sold. Due to the reasons Greg stated, it would easily cost them thousands or even millions if it is proved their heaters caused damage.

It is evident the person who e-mailed you is stating your home caused the problems, not their heaters. I am sure they figure you will take the credit and go away, go after them using the Better Business Bureau, the BBB does not take problems like this too lightly.

 

[ccthera]

UNlike with UV bulbs, which need to be replaced due to the decrease in UV output, Ceramic bulbs don't have that kind of problem. They only give off heat and a 5+ year old bulb gives off the same amount as a 5 minute old bulb, normally. With proper "care" and "kind neglect" (as in not moving the bulb around, dropping it, etc.) these bulbs have been known to brag a life span of 5 years. I worked at a pet store who had a zoo med bulb they installed in a display that when I left it was pushing 8 or 9 years of use (and still going strong). Pretty much that was because they installed it and it ran on a thermostat and never bothered it again. That's really how it ends up working. While not guaranteed, BAH makes the same 5 year brag about their bulbs. So 6-8 months and then falling appart is rediculous!

And as far as the BS from BAH, trust me if $15 is all they can give me and they think that that'll shut me up about their dangerous products... they better dream on. In 2 years I'm getting my DVM in Veterinary Medicine, I'm specializing in reptile medicine. You think my clients aren't going to get educated to avoid their products? You think that these photos aren't going on every forum out there? HAHA think again BAH!

Note this as well... I also purchased from BAH their fluorescant UV lights when they came out and also had some safety issues with them that after I complained they had to CHANGE their directions on the bulbs so that people wouldn't ahve my issues... I had 100% of my dragon collection come down with what is referred to as noninfectious uvitis, or eye irritation. It has been suggested that their UV bulbs put out harmful amounts of UV-C light and exposure for longer than 2 hours a day causes this condition... hense why now they dropped the recommended use to 2 hours/day. Nice eh?

In addition to deciding to avoid BAH brand products like the plague, I don't plan on buying anything. I don't support companies who care nothing about the safety of their customers and their customers' pets.
H

 

[ccthera]

Oh I've also used Exoterra brand ceramic bulbs too, I've got two 100Ws and I really like them. All my ZooMed and Exoterra bulbs are "old"

 

[Junkyard]

I personally do not use heat emitters, so this whole issue you are having sure does turn me away from the BAH brand, I have only ordered from them once and I was not to pleased with the snake hook I bought(it bent in half the first time I picked up a 4 pound boa). Bummer about your dragons too, deffinately time to stay away from their products. I would still think about reporting them for selling faulty products and just shrugging you off. As Greg said, animals and even your life is in danger because of this problem.

Good luck with the DVM, we need more vets like you.

 

[ccthera]

New email from BAH:
--------------------------------
Heather,
I totally understand what your indicating, we have a new factory making the bulbs since you bought them but I can tell you that the 250 watts run so hot that sometimes depending on the domes people use (we only guarantee them in the 10" brooder fixture) they can overheat themselves. Zoo Med has had the same issue on their 250 watt unit and their warranty says the same thing. We have had Zoo Med 250 units do the same although their smaller design is easier to work with but our units are enjoyed for their excellent heat production.

I have the entire history of these bulbs as far as defective returns, etc.

This is the three year history return of these bulbs...

100 watt - 10 bulbs

150 watt - 14 bulbs

250 watt - 18 bulbs

Considering the sale numbers this represents a very tiny fraction of sales. We are definitely not shirking any responsibility here and we will bring your experience to our factory and ask them to make the contact points more resistant to heat so that the next batch of units are stronger.

I very much thank you for your time and wish to offer you a $25 gift certificate on your next purchase if this is considered okay for you.

Thank you,

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Andy

Director Of Internet Services

Big Apple Herpetological, Inc.

http://www.bigappleherp.com

800-92-APPLE

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

I have heard of problems with BAH CHE, and also I have had problems with "their brand" of thermostats, and rheostats.

I have one rheostat that does NOT change the current at all when turned down to low, (flex watt reached 135 F on low) and a so called "1000 watt" thermostat from them that obviously does not regulate the temps correctly after only a couple months of use. (one day, spot temps at 102, the next day at 109, and the next day at 92)

Personally, I am going to start looking into a different supplier for my electrical products. I don't believe that you can go with the cheaper materials, and still mantain a high level of safety for your reptiles. Living in a mobile home (for now), I cannot afford a fire at all. Not that a house fire is any better, just mobile homes burn quicker.

The pics you posted show obvious signs of the materials not holding up to the heat. Whatever epoxy they used to mount to the screwhead, did not hold, and the center connection is obviously melted due to heat. These are signs of workmanship, and poor materials, not neglect, and they should have honored you a 100% return due to the poor workmanship and parts put into the assembly. (factory defects)

Just to see if they react differently, try telling them the pics and CHE's are being sent for annalysis, due to the signs of obvious poor quality, and unsafe materials.

Ciao,
Rick

 

[MGReptiles]

WOW thats awful, hope you get everythign straightned out.. Are you going to take the 25 gift card?

 

[jsrocket]

I bought a 250W (Exo Terra) ceramic from LLL, And it did the same thing in less than 2 months. They sent me another one and it also broke off at the socket end within 1 month.

 

[Bill & Amy]

I had the same happen with a Zoo Med 250 watt ceramic heater. The ceramic came loose from the base and it just quit working. I know there isnt anything I trust completely. I check temps as often as possible in any given day.

 

[Bill & Amy]

Thats It!!!

I just had another ceramic heat emitter take a nose dive!! That is two new units quit working within 2 weeks of being installed!! This time it was an Exo Terra 250 watt. Time to switch to something else! I have plastic vision cages on the way, thinking of using a heat tape or something any suggestions? Beating my head against the wall might help right now!

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

That sucks! I guess BAH is going down hill. It's not just their CHE's, I've had problems with their thermostats also.
As far as the heat tape goes.........Are you talking about "flex watt" or something else? I don't know how well flex watt works for lizards, (they seem to like it hotter than boas), but it works great for my boas. It's more of a gentle type of heat. I know that unregulated, flex watt gets up there about 115 +/-, but I don't recommend using it that way for safety reasons.

Not cheap, but another option is Radiant heat panels. They seem to last for a while, and no problems. They just cost a lot.

Good luck!. Let us know what you decide to go with.


Ciao,
Rick

 

[MGReptiles]

You can actually use flexwatt for any specie in any type of cage.. You just ahve to make sure you have a thermostat like Richard said or it will get way to hot for your animals...

 

[Bill & Amy]

That sucks! I guess BAH is going down hill. It's not just their CHE's, I've had problems with their thermostats also.
As far as the heat tape goes.........Are you talking about "flex watt" or something else? I don't know how well flex watt works for lizards, (they seem to like it hotter than boas), but it works great for my boas. It's more of a gentle type of heat. I know that unregulated, flex watt gets up there about 115 +/-, but I don't recommend using it that way for safety reasons.

Not cheap, but another option is Radiant heat panels. They seem to last for a while, and no problems. They just cost a lot.

Good luck!. Let us know what you decide to go with.


Ciao,
Rick

I am leaning to the "flex watt" right now. I have heard many good things about it. I will be stacking the vision cages and running the "flex watt" on the under side of the cages and picking up a quality thermostat (not like the cheap one that went out today, but thats another thread ). Thanks for the help!!