Jim,
I appreciate your kind words and remarks. I also appreciate you correcting me with regard to the cause of Ivan being banned from KS. If it is appropriate, perhaps you, Ivan or Matt could further clarify the reasons for such actions to completely dispel the association?
My post voicing my feelings on this topic was not in anyway a reflection of my personal feelings toward any individual, it is intended simply to express my sever dislike of the chosen business tactics you and your partners have chosen to follow. I hold nothing personal against any of you, but that does not in any way change my feelings about what has happened and how I feel it affects and reflects upon the chameleon industry. I'm aware that both you and Ivan have expressed your reservations with regard to the tone of the classified adds and while I see the "hidden" references quite clearly and find them inappropriate, the two adds are not the extent of the issue as I see it.
While it seems that the majority of the attention has been given solely to the content of the adds as the main source of discontent, I do not see this to be the reality of the situation. I feel the adds primarily show the similarity of the attacks by "ddmadson" (from Ivan's IP address) and the same indirect references in the adds posted by this partnership (from Ivan's KS user) toward Vince and other breeders that were posted. These similarities would seem odd if coming from two different sources but as the IP addresses show, they came from the same source and as such, providing the adds shows one additional (not the only) case of these poor business ethics I mention. When the adds are viewed as such and you continue to look at the rest of the statements and actions by this partnership, a full picture of their business style becomes apparent. Regardless of whether or not the statements in the add were direct, when put all together, it is obvious how this partnership (or individual if one of the partners is solely responsible) are on a business level. In my opinion, the issue that is being overlooked here is the poor choices made by this partnership when they made all the bogus comments they've made and decided to do so using aliases to try to hide. Each of these, in my opinion, directly reflect the business ethics and the overall intent of this partnership and negatively impact the chameleon community and the targeted breeders with no justification. Since the adds have been beaten to death, here are a few other examples that, in my opinion, continue to show the poor business style and methods of this partnership:
"...the truth isn’t being told...there is something not truthful or should I say not “fully represented” about claiming you are not in league with them. "
In my opinion, there is nothing untruthful with Vincent selling animals that he purchased, that were raised in cages that he purchased. I have never seen Vincent claim he personally bred everything he sells, he simply provides information on the Sire/dam when he can and provides information on his projects to the best of his knowledge and ability. I don't see anything "not truthful" about that and don't understand the accusation that there is. If he has claimed that he himself bred all the animals he is working with or selling, please correct me. The fact of the matter is, as I see it, someone from Ivan's IP address took this opportunity to create false accusations to Vince's honesty and continued to do so in other replies to this thread. That is, in my opinion, slanderous. The fact that the individual (and the evidence points to either Ivan or Matt) felt the need to do so under an alias further shows me that they knew it was.
“I have such a head start on breeding just Ambilobes that there is really nothing he [John Lucas] or you [Dennis Scott] for that matter can do and that includes Vince [Vincent Wong] even with him operating out of the Bebe Blue greenhouse.”
Now granted that this could be viewed as simply a business tactic, I don't particular think intimidation tactics should have their place in breeding efforts. You sell your chameleons for whatever you want to or feel you can get for them and let everyone else do the same. When you start up with a big front about how much bigger your *@#% is then the other person, its unneeded and uncalled for and in my opinion, makes the person look like an id*@t and definitely shows poor business ethics.
“The Nozakis are good friends of mine now and we have aq coupel things cooking behind the scenes and I am working out a deal as I type with the Kammers to trade bloodlines.”
Don't make huge claims about how good you are in with people when 1) it isn't true (I know for a fact that at least one of those is not the case) and 2) those individuals have not consented to you using their name to benefit yourself. Very poor business ethics.
“Lane can set you guys up with all the offspring you'll ever need in a vain attempt to try to hurt me but the fact is that I have a solid 1.5-2 year lead and I am now well into my second generation offspring and breeding of some of the older F2's I have and a small number of F3's with the help of Ivan…”
We've already established just how well endowed you are, there is no need to try to drive it home again. Acting like this is just in poor form, makes you look bad and doesn't say anything good for what type of person would be to do business with.
“…I don't see you, or anyone for that matter as potenital [sic.] competition that can hurt me nor do I feel that I need to bad mouth you guys or any of that stuff.
“Again, I am not saying this to talk [**censored**] or rub your nose in it but to be realistic in that there is no ill willl [sic.] on my part towards you guys because there is no point in getting in a huff over it as far as I am concerned…”
Stepping away from the view of why this reflects negatively on their business ethics and style, who wants to do business with someone who repeatedly pats themselves on the back so boisterously, its just irritating to even listen to.
“I am just too entrenched to recieve any real damage and the bottom is beginning to drop out so I am poised to strike while the iron is smoking.” – Matt Jillson, Image 9
“This thread will prove to be futile in damaging Matt or myself…” – Ivan Alfonso, Image 8
It is my opinion that this type of business strategy is harmful to the industry and this type of slander and poor business ethics should not be supported.
I personally agree with this last statement. I think after looking at the adds and joining that with the above statements, its fairly clear how this partnership (or whoever is responsible for writing all of the above) plans to work and do business. I think the methods chosen by this partnership are deplorable and not anything I'd want to support or do business with. Again, its nothing I have personally against any of them, just how i feel about the actions taken.
Just my 2 cents
Chris
