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Jamaican Boas Breeding

Chris this is great, and very helpful. I shall be trying it next time my Fiji Boas get round to breeding.

I have an addition: With slightly larger snakes I have used chicken hearts as a substitute for geckos (where I am supermarkets sell frozen packs of chicken hearts and gizzards, good for gravy-making, not sure if you can get these in the USA).

I think these may make a useful supplement to limbs, and when I have had to use them over extended periods of time I literally stuffed them with reptile vitamin supplement powder.
 
Chris this is great, and very helpful. I shall be trying it next time my Fiji Boas get round to breeding.

I have an addition: With slightly larger snakes I have used chicken hearts as a substitute for geckos (where I am supermarkets sell frozen packs of chicken hearts and gizzards, good for gravy-making, not sure if you can get these in the USA).

I think these may make a useful supplement to limbs, and when I have had to use them over extended periods of time I literally stuffed them with reptile vitamin supplement powder.

Definitely information worth noting. I'm hoping to start moving some of them to pinkies and quail chicks soon (gave 2 a pinky plus a thigh today as an experiment, so fingers crossed) but I will definitely remember that tip if I end up pushing bird parts for an extended period. Thanks.
 
Update for feeding #5. I have good news and bad news (as always). The bad news first:

All three of the non-feeders have declined to eat their meals again. This is the 5th straight refusal, and at 7 weeks old, I am starting to get concerned. I have decided that I will attempt acquire some live anoles, which can be placed into the screen cages with them and hopefully will induce feeding. My hope is that once they start feeding, they will easily switch over to chick thighs or something else that is more readily available. This is somewhat frustrating, but since I was originally concerned that I would have to do this with the majority (if not the entirety) of the clutch, I feel it's best to count blessing and just be happy that I only have three troublemakers.

Now, on to the good news. Firstly, 24 out of the 25 good eaters ate this week, and the one that declined to eat was NOT one of the three that declined last week, so all three of the babies who skipped last week are back on feed. As for the one who skipped this week, I believe the refusal stems from a change that I made on Tuesday. This particular snake made a complete mess of his tub by spilling water all over the bedding, which was starting to turn moldy. Because of this, I switched him over to a new, clean tub on Tuesday. My best guess is that the stress of the move is what put him off feed. These guys are proving themselves to be quite temperamental, but at the same time, quite resilient. I plan to make more of an effort to do anything that might contribute to the stress of the babies as far away from feeding days as possible, as even a space of a few days does not appear to be enough for them to fully recover their confidence. I am optimistic that this guy will be back on feed next week.

Now for the REALLY good news. As an experiment, I placed a pinky mouse in with two random babies at the same time as I placed the chick thigh. One of these two snakes turned out to be the one who did not eat at all, so it's hard to say what would have happened if he had been hungry. The other, however, ate both food items. When I noticed this (hours later), I made eight more pinkies and placed them with eight more babies (all of whom had already consumed their thigh, presumably a few hours before). None of the eight additionals ate the pinky, but I believe the fact that they had already consumed their food significantly before being offered the pinky may have contributed to the failure rate.

Next week, I intend to feed a larger group a thigh and a pinky simultaneously, to see if I can drive up the numbers. The plan here is to take advantage of the feed response induced by the chick to encourage them to eat the pinky as well, thus getting them potentially missing nutrition, and also causing them to associate the smell and taste of the pinky with food. Over time, I hope to gradually move them on to a diet of primarily pinky mice, which will make them more likely to succeed in their new homes (and make me more likely to succeed at selling them, haha).

I will be attempting this only with the animals that I intend to sell, as there is no real benefit to me to switch my holdbacks onto pinkies at this time. The babies are growing well, and will be ready for quail chicks soon enough, so I will try to convert my holdbacks to quail chicks and my non-holdbacks to pinkies. If I am successful, people who purchase babies will be able to feed pinkies, and I will have the luxury of keeping my animals on birds.

One more note- many of these guys are developing at a remarkable rate. They are much larger and are starting to lose their juvenile, dark red color. I will try to get some updated pictures of some of the recent sheds for you guys in the next couple of days, but I am trying to balance things out with regard to stressing the babies, so I will be choosing the time frame carefully.
 
One more update. On Friday, I purchased three live anoles. One was a green anole and two were Bahaman anoles. All three were fully grown, though the green is a little larger than the two bahamans. They were placed in the screen cages with the non-eating snakes, and at some point on Friday night, one of the snakes ate his/her anole. The other two have not yet eaten theirs, despite having had two separate nights in which to do it. I am glad the one has now eaten, but live anoles are supposedly the be-all-end-all food for these guys, so the fact that the other two are not eating is a little disconcerting. I am hoping that over time, they will also eat their anoles, and am wondering if perhaps a smaller anole would be better. I will continue to update.

Aside from that, I have taken a few more random pictures of some of the healthy eaters, in order to show the growth and development over the past couple of weeks. The colors on some of these guys is really starting to come out, as they are losing a lot of their darker, neonate cast. They are also starting to lose their all-or-nothing coloration, and beginning to develop the more variegated range of colors and shades of adulthood. All three of these guys ate on Thursday, and you can see that the bulge is considerably digested even at this point. Enjoy.
 

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:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Good news on the pinkies, and great photos, they are such a stunning deep red!

Re the anoles: with my Fiji boas I have not always had enough geckos of the correct size, but I have had success with feeding them tails or even hind limbs of larger geckos, so maybe it's back to surgery for the little non-eaters????

Good luck and please do keep posting.
 
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Good news on the pinkies, and great photos, they are such a stunning deep red!

Re the anoles: with my Fiji boas I have not always had enough geckos of the correct size, but I have had success with feeding them tails or even hind limbs of larger geckos, so maybe it's back to surgery for the little non-eaters????

Good luck and please do keep posting.

Thanks. The one who ate didn't seem to have much trouble with the anole that I gave him/her, so I don't think I'll have to do any butchering. The other Bahaman anole is the same size as the one that got eaten, and the green is only slightly larger than that. The anoles in general are a little smaller than the chick thighs, so I'm sure they could all manage to get them down if they tried. However, it may just be a preference issue. Plus, I'd want to avoid killing an animal just in the hopes that it MIGHT help the little one eat, especially if I have the option of finding a half-grown anole somewhere instead.

I think I'm going to give them the rest of the week to make up their minds (for all I know, they've been trying to get them all night and been unsuccessful) and then go shopping for half-grown anoles. Since we're only dealing with two more non-feeders, it's not too much trouble for them to be super picky. If I had to find 28 half-grown anoles, you bet I'd be a lot less willing to go shopping around Goldilocks style.
 
Feeding #6 was today.

My nine designated holdbacks were each given a quail chick. They look to be about ready to me, but in the morning we will see how they feel about it. Anyone who doesn't eat their quail chick will be offered a chick thigh tomorrow. Hopefully, this way, nobody will miss a feeding, but we will have to see if anyone refuses the chick thigh out of spite.

The 16 other good eaters were all given a chick thigh and a pinky. I'm hoping to see a lot of disappeared pinkies in the morning, but I'm not too concerned about it. I mostly just want to see fat, little snakes. haha

The non-feeder that ate an anole last week was given a chick thigh, in the hopes that now that he/she has started eating, a conversion can be made onto chick thigh. If that does not work out, I will move one of the two remaining anoles into that cage tomorrow.

The two who still have yet to eat anything were given a chick thigh, a quail chick, and still have their live anoles, because at this point, I'm pretty much just taking shots in the dark in the hope that something gets them to eat. I'd cook them spaghetti if I thought that would help. Fingers crossed on these guys.

I'll update again in the morning to share the results of these various experiments. I have been debating whether or not these guys are ready for sale, as the Hamburg Reptile Show is coming up next Saturday, but I'm uneasy about it with the degree to which these guys have been getting stressed. If changing the bedding will make them go off feed for a week, I have to think that getting put into a deli cup, driven to a show, sitting on a table all day, and then being brought to a new home might be a bit much for them. Right now, I'm thinking it may be best to hold on to them for a little while longer. As much as I'd like to free up the time and space (and put a little money into the feeder fund, haha), there is definitely an additional responsibility here with the ecological status of the species, not to mention the rareness of the species in this state.

Anyway, just in case I've started boring everyone, here's a sneak preview of next year's attempt at breeding. Introducing my other female, Lucea.
 

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Well, it looks like I jumped the gun on the quail chicks. Of the nine holdbacks that were offered one, only one managed to eat it. Many of the other quail chicks appear to have been moved around a bit, so the babies may have made some attempt to feed, but given up due to the size/awkwardness of the new food item. Because of this, I'm hoping that it will be an easy transition, when they are ready for it. Looking at the one that did feed (escapee #3 aka baby #27), the bulge is significantly larger than that of a chick thigh, so I'm thinking I should hold off on quail chicks for at least a few more weeks. I will offer a chick thigh in a couple of days to the 8 that passed on the quail chick.

All 16 of the other good feeders ate their chick thigh. Three of these also ate their pinky mouse. The one that ate the pinky mouse last week did not eat the pinky this week, though. Either way, I have separated out the 4 that have eaten a pinky in addition to a thigh, and will continue to work toward getting them to eat pinkies. The others will be offered pinkies periodically, though I am not especially concerned with getting them onto pinkies.

None of the three problem feeders ate anything offered last night. I have removed the f/t items from all cages, and have moved the other bahaman anole to the cage with the one that ate the anole last week. We shall see if he/she eats the new anole tonight. Fingers crossed

As for the other two that have yet to eat anything, I will be going to Hamburg on Saturday, and hopefully I will find a large number of smaller, green anoles or similar lizards to attempt to use as feeders. If that does not work, I am pretty much out of ideas.
 
Another great report. Glad to see a strong methodology documented for future breeders of this species. Good luck on finding a solution for those last two.

And your adult female looks great!

BTW:

I'd cook them spaghetti if I thought that would help. Fingers crossed....

So all we have to do is refuse chicken thighs, pinkie rats, and an anole for a plate of free spaghetti? Score!
 
Great detailed documentation, and gratz on the successful breeding and with the babies. Maybe they'll be ready for the December show in Hamburg. How old are the breeders?
 
Great detailed documentation, and gratz on the successful breeding and with the babies. Maybe they'll be ready for the December show in Hamburg. How old are the breeders?

Thanks. Honestly, I think they would probably be fine to be renamed now, but only a short distance (not shipped) and to experienced and/or dedicated keepers who were willing to prepare them chick thighs. I just don't think they'd be able to handle the stress of being bounced around and left on a table all day. I'm also being fairly cautious due to feelings of responsibility regarding the raresness of the species.

I'm not sure how old the parents are. They were both proven breeders when I got them, so they are likely 10 or more years old.
 
Have you considered forced feedong as a last resort?

I have considered it, but I do not think I will be going that route. There are a couple of factors at play here. Firstly, even the more robust neonates have proven themselves to be quite sensitive to stress, and force feeding is one of the most stressful things that can happen to a snake. I believe that any force feeding would likely do more harm than good to appetite and overall security of the individual snakes. It could send a snake that was on the verge of beginning to feed back into anorexia, and could even cause physical damage to an otherwise healthy, though reluctant, snake.

Secondly, I am reluctant to force feed for reasons of genetic viability. It is one thing to give in to picky eaters. Picky eaters will not be held back for my own breeding purposes, but natural instincts are natural instincts, and I won't cull an animal for being inconvenient. However, an animal that doesn't have the drive necessary to eat ANY kind of food, I generally consider not to be genetically viable. Since there are so few of these guys in the world, and none that I am aware of being produced in the state, I feel I have a duty to the species and to future pa breeders of maintaining the genetic strength and viability of any animals that I add to the gene pool.

Non-feeders could have drive or instinct issues, that may or may not be passed on to future offspring, or could have internal defects that may or may not be heritable. Either way, with 26 viable babies, I feel that force feeding would likely be a disservice to the species, the hobby, and to the individual non-feeders themselves. Plus, I'm still hoping they come around on their own. Time will tell.
 
There's no real "natural selection" process in captive breeding, so animals that would never survive in the wild are raised and passed along. I agree that it's better to allow the young to sort themselves out than to go to extremes to keep them alive.
 
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