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Bad Guy James Nicard skink Breeder

One more thing, why is it so important to you to get the carcasses back before you send a refund? Mike sent you money for four live skinks which three were dead before you shipped. It seems pretty clear from the photos that they were in fact dead. If what Mike states about you recouping some of your money by selling the dead skinks then you should be paying for the shipping to get them back. Also if that is true then you most likely do believe the skinks arrived DOA as you were notified immediately and received photos so wanting the bodies back was not for identification purposes. You also didn't state in this thread that you had issues with the photos and you thought that they might not be the animals you sent. You never questioned the DOA claims only the amount of time that had passed being the only reason to justify not refunding Mike. I'll say it again you owe Mike a refund! I find it rather unsettling that you James feel this is the correct way to handle this or not handle this situation. Then to top it off you state that Mike is trying to scam you with nothing to back it up. So far the only one that looks to be pulling a fast one is you James. If you have other evidence that you haven't shared to back up these claims please state and post them. I don't know either of you only what has been posted here so if there is some scam going on it hasn't come to light in this thread other than you suggesting it. A mere suggestion won't win you any votes without proof. Calling someone a scammer isn't taken lightly especially if you owe that person money and refuse to pay. Do you have a TOS written anywhere like on your website or in your ads that states the protocol if an animal arrives DOA?
 
If you had wanted the bodies back you should have sent him a label, no need for him then to find your address or pay to ship something he has already lost a ton of money on. Pictures of DOA's are acceptable for most vendors, you screwed up and you should fix it, you should also learn how to ship animals properly, from what that picture says you don't have a clue how to do that.
 
I've revived animals that parishes in shipping before and the seller always request return of the bodies. And if I spent $750 I'd be sending them back the next day to receive a refund not waiting this long
 
If a seller needs DOAs back, the seller needs to provide a shipping label.

Not require the customer (who is already out time and $) to provide proper shipping materials AND pay for return shipping.

That's just B.S. on the seller's part.
 
Animals that have gotten too cold can look dead and come back after they warm up, animals that are exposed to too much heat are dead. Putting heat packs directly into a box containing an animal is a huge mistake unless it is really well insulated. 60 and 70 hour packs work best as they spike at much lower tamps than the shorter duration ones do.
 
Jim, I initially did not agree to spend MORE money out of MY pocket to send the bodies back to you. You originally said you were going to send the refund right away. I asked you several times to send the refund and then I would send the bodies back but you did not. I then kept saying it makes no sense for me to spend more money out of my pocket to send animals that are clearly dead back to you just so you can make some money back stuffing them with your friend that is a taxidermist. I was calm about it as you seemed like an upfront and honest person on the phone that acted like the refund was the right thing to do, which it was.

After communicating back and forth I finally just said fine I will send them back which was not until a couple of weeks ago. You then sent me your shipping information which I deleted by mistake and have been asking for ever since. Deleting it was my fault, I take blame for that. But not answering when I emailed you about several times is not acceptable. You then all of a sudden decide out of nowhere that it is too late to send back my refund and say that I am a scammer.

I do not know how you claim me to be a scammer. I have plenty of friends and acquaintances that I have done business with in the animal world that can give references if that is what you are requesting. I even messaged you personally on my facebook account that has pictures of all of my animals etc. I update it regularly and anyone can see that it is a real account of a real person.

As far as your shipping information on the box? I go through boxes like there is no tomorrow with my animals. I wouldn't be able to tell you if I still had your box or not as I regularly use them at home, work, to ship, to transfer animals etc. If you wanted the bodies back you should have either sent me money to ship them back or sent me a label to ship them back. It makes no sense for me to invest more into something I have already lost so much in. I apologize to the rest of the people on this thread as I know I am being repetitive but I just don't see why it is so difficult to understand!

I have still attempted to contact you via phone calls, emails and facebook and the only responses I have witnessed are the ones you have posted on this thread.

I now ask you once again, please do the right thing and refund my money. I still have the dead skinks frozen in my freezer. I think we all agree on here that a refund is in order. You claimed to be a man of your word, so please act on what you stated and send me the refund.
 
Please note that never once did you request the bodies back because you wanted proof, you said that you wanted the bodies back so that you could make some money back on them by selling them to your friend who is a taxidermist. Refunding the money right away should have been a no brainer. I still have your proof right here in my freezer that I can post pictures of if needed.
 
If I were in this situation I would have made sure to send bodies back quickly. $750 is a lot of money and from what I understand the Pink Tongues are not that easy to come by. The method in which they were shipped to you may not have been correct but it sounds like James was willing to refund you the cost immediately upon him receiving the bodies. I would also want this if I sold them and there was this much money on the line. I may have missed it but did you, Mike, ask him about paying for return shipping or for him to reimburse you for it? As you stated, receiving them DOA was in no way your fault. However, in the sellers defense he offered to refund immediately but you became too busy. That would not be his fault. Do you still have the 1 live one? We're you intending on returning that too or did you expect the full $750 refund for only 3/4 skinks? I can't blame you for being upset but I can't blame James for refusing because its been so long. Maybe try to work out a deal where you get some sort of refund just not the whole amount. Something is better than nothing in this situation.
 
Not sure how it works for others.

My terms include addressing the matter of sending back DOA corpses at my discretion. This is due to dealing with certain higher end animals (in the multiples of thousands of dollars) and wanting to be *sure* what I would have sent would be what had died (I have not had any losses from shipping out yet, but I have received some DOA animals on a few occasions and photos have been sufficient on those few occasions for the respective sellers). I would be willing to ship the corpses back if there was a discussion with the explicit mention that said cost of return would be full reimbursed, much like it is mentioned in my terms. I would also be willing to generate a label in the same manner as I have done for a live return in the past. That simply needs to be discussed between the buying and selling party so both sides are clear on the details.

An alternative is having clear photographs of corpse dissection or something, but I feel many customers are not up to that task for various reasons, so I would consider it unfair to request that of them. That is why I retain the option of having the body sent back to me in my terms. It costs me more, but saves them the emotional trauma.

However, it seems like those photos are pretty clear in this case. For additional evidence for the seller, a video could be provided of manipulation of the corpses to show either rigor or loss of tonus (depending on the recency of demise), but that time has since been spent.

The seller was supposed to deliver four items of a particular description (live, assumed healthy, PTS). At least 75% of the order was delivered in a way not matching the description. The buyer informed the seller. The seller did not contest the nature of the DOA, but instead sought to recoup some loss via the taxidermy aspect, which is completely fine. However, that effort to recoup lost value is separate from the original transaction with the buyer. Unless it was in the terms prior to purchase, it is an unrelated matter and not the onus of the buyer to fulfill.

Also, has the freezing process destroyed the ability to recoup costs via taxidermy? I would imagine the skeleton and the skin are the primary needs to be useful in that context and the damage to cellular integrity by ice crystals would be irrelevant. I know virtually nothing of taxidermy, but if my assumption is correct, no loss to the recoup effort would be incurred if the buyer sent the corpses back now versus before.

As such, the buyer is owed a refund for the three DOA animals (if the fourth animal is alive and well, then that part would be okay as is unless I missed something...and I could have) and let us say the buyer may also be owed some portion of the shipping cost if it was a separately calculated charge. The buyer, as a gesture of decency, should send the corpses back to the seller if the seller pays for the shipping cost. With current weather patterns, this may be an ideal time for such to hold back decomposition.
 
To address one of the questions I am requesting compensation for 3/4 only as that is what arrived dead. It is unfortunate as I wanted to start a breeding project which one really does not allow me to do, but it would not be right for me to ask for a complete refund when only one arrived alive.

I have never had an issue with sending the animals back. If I am sent a label or know of Jim having credibility or a reputation I would have done it already. Because of the fact that I have not been able to find any information on him, and I have not received a shipping label I decided that it would be silly to spend more money to send them back.

I ended up agreeing to send them back hoping that in good faith, Jim would come through with his word, so this is the point where I asked for his address. I then deleted that email by mistake, which I take full responsibility for. I then asked him for it again repeatedly via phone calls and emails and was responded to with

"Mike deal is done tired of going back and forth I sent you the information as it was on shipping box .and requested bodies several times should of been handled ASAP .I'm not sure what's going on and think this is a scam .The time frame is unacceptable i will not no longer issue a refund .I ship all over and saved all emails aswell never had any problems like this . Thanks JimJames"

If the reason why he is not sending them back is because he thinks it is a scam which is what he stated that would be able to proved false by the references that I can provide him. I contacted him on my facebook page that has my information, pictures of my animals etc. Anyone that knows me and has done business with me knows that I am always a stand up guy and do this as a hobby. I can provide countless references from people that are well known in the animal business.

I would like to progressively move towards something that we both agree on but it is difficult when there is no response on the other end. When I was sending the money he was always very attentive and responding right away from his mobile device and responding to calls. Since then it has been a struggle to communicate with him and as far as the last couple weeks or so. I have clearly been ignored.

I am going to look for the box today in the pile of boxes I have in my garage in hopes that I can find it. If I do I will be posting pictures later today.
 
What is clear to me, and should be to others by now, is that he wanted the dead animals back so that they could be sold to his taxidermy friend.....not so he could verify that they were the ones he sold. So the refund should have been sent right from the beginning, and then a shipping label the same day. That's all that really matters in this, everything else is just wasted conversation. Refund the guy, send the shipping label, and you'll get the skinks that are still in his freezer..what's so difficult?
 
I am local to one of the parties and know both of them. I hope the the shipper does the right thing and refunds the cost of animals that died during shipping. The questions were asked as they were important to other discussion and inquiries I have received and we believe further evidence is bolstering to the case. I do hope to see this resolved.

I recently had a similar situation when I received a shipment of animals that had likely died prior to shipment. I was eventually able to resolve things with the seller as I took pictures immediately at the FedEx facility. I believe this is sufficient and standard practice. The shipper dodged my phone calls and would not answer specific questions, but refunded the money within 36 hours, which was much appreciated.

The seller should refund the money or replace the animals, if he can obtain more from the source he acquired them from. Yet if he guaranteed live arrival and offered refund prior to requesting the animals be returned, he is particularly obligated to make it right without stipulation. I understand he may desire the animals back to recoup some of the funds, but reimbursement should not be incumbent upon return of the animals, particularly if he offered reimbursement prior to expressing wanting the animals back or did not state this in terms of service/ shipping.

Ronnie, I do agree with you that we should not NEED to split hairs regarding language, but it may be help move things along.
 
I was guaranteed live arrival over the phone and was also able to find this in the emails which applies (Listed below). After digging through the boxes in my garage I was able to locate the exact 8x8x7.5 box with his address on it used to ship the four skinks. I now have his address but am not able to communicate with him to send the shipping label or to be sure he will send my refund because he does not answer my calls or emails. Pictures of the box and the three frozen skinks from my freezer are below.

We can still make this right!!

On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 9:12 PM, Jimnic <[email protected]> wrote:




Mike your skinks are on the way here your tracking#797315561796
Thanks again buddy


Michael Lloret <[email protected]> wrote:


Where are you located? Sorry I have been swamped with work. As long as the temperatures are alright and you can guarantee live arrival go ahead. I have no had a chance to look at the temperatures.



Thanks,

Mike L






On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 1:18 PM, Jimnic <[email protected]> wrote:




Today is nicer here do u want me to ship today ?


Michael Lloret <[email protected]> wrote:



Mike Lloret

(Address)


It is my work address, so that I can receive them with no problems during the day, make sure they are alright before I take them home.



Thanks,

Mike L
 

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Those pictures make me flaming mad!

PTS in a 8 inch box?? And not just one but four????????

Karma will shove the seller in a tiny hot box one day, I'm sure.

I do hope you get that refund.
 
Shipping 4 skinks, in that small box, is deplorable.
From everything I have seen/read, in this thread, you are due a refund. Hope Mr. Nicard will do the honorable thing by sending you a refund.
Additionally, if he wants/wanted the bodies, it should be on his dime, not yours.
 
Mike, has there been any communication with James?

I see those who make the argument that Mike may have waited too long to get the skinks back to James, but if James had not been willing to pay that shipping up front, I would have been hesitant.

Also, the obvious gross negligence on the part of the seller when it comes to packaging animals ought to void any terms James wants to make on the fly. Seems the animals never had a chance. As a believer in plain old decency, a refund should have been submitted without question. However James handles transactions in person or how he takes care of his animals doesn't matter, as he clearly doesn't know how to properly package animals.
 
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