Jamie Kaps - Guarantees, Signature Releases, & The War on Terror.

[Chris@TSE]

I'll start by saying this is NOT a bad guy post. More of a informative post describing a recent situation with a customer who I would have rather seen follow our instructions and took it upon himself to try and bring this matter public without telling the entire situation in a truthful manner.

Here is a BOI tale for discussion regarding Live Arrival Guarantees, Signature Releases, and The War on Terror.

The situation is this..... Prior to delivery a customer was instructed to confirm shipping details and answer four to five brief questions. The same we require ALL customers to do before accepting delivery. We do this not only to confirm shipping address to make sure our animals are shipped to the correct location, but we do this also to give our customers a chance at doing everything in their power to be there in person for delivery and to make sure they can qualify for our live arrival guarantee. Most sellers assume customers have read terms and leave them out to dry, we take extra steps to make sure they have every chance to cover themselves....

This customer unfortunately ignored our statements and suggestions. You may read the email that was sent in reply to their "claim" below for details.

You (your fiancé) were specifically informed to REMOVE any and all signature releases from your residential delivery carrier prior to shipment in an email message prior to shipment. Note the excerpt below:



“4. We are shipping using FedEx. Do you have a “signature release” on file with this carrier?

(This allows carriers to leave parcels unsigned at your doorstep, if you are not sure we suggest calling fedex to remove a waiver if it exists. Many customers have this and are unaware, it is always best to check prior to accepting live deliveries. A signature waiver will result in forfeiture of live arrival guarantee since we are unable to receive proof of signature or personal acceptance of package(s). There are no exceptions to this policy whatsoever.)”


You failed to do this.

(the customer answered simply 'no' to this answer in their reply and did not bother checking.)

We also asked specifically if someone would be accepting this parcel in person.



“3. Will someone be on hand to personally sign and accept this package?”



Again, you failed to do this.

(the customer answered simply 'yes' to this question yet fedex states specifically in tracking that the parcel was left on the doorstep. we have no way of proving signature or personal acceptance, therefore we are unable to guarantee live arrival. we gave the customer every opportunity to be aware of these issues and forced them to read and respond no less, still..... these statements were ignored)



You can check your tracking details using the link we provided prior to shipment here:

http://www.fedex.com/Tracking?track...code=us&clientype=ivpodalrt&language=english&



Nov 11, 2005
2:12 PM

Delivered

DEPEW, NY


Left at front door. Package delivered to recipient address - release authorized




Tracking number: 790708271500

Ship (P/U) date: Nov 10, 2005

Delivery date: Nov 11, 2005 14:12 PM

Sign for by: Signature Release on file



A signature release was on file for your residence, and no one bothered to remove this release. To make matters even worse, the package was left on your front doorstep. Our terms specifically state that someone must be on hand to accept these parcels and sign or else live arrival cannot be guaranteed. They also state that signature releases effectively void the live arrival guarantee as well.



We understand not all customers read our terms as they should before order, this is why we take the specific measure in emailing each and every customer PRIOR to shipment and REQUIRING them to answer questions confirming shipping information and that they agree to these details. It is a legally binding contract, in ADDITION to our terms.



Unfortunately we cannot refund or guarantee packages when our customers do everything in their power to IGNORE what we have stipulated as obvious terms of a transaction. There is no possible way we can issue a refund for this order. You simply failed to do what was stated to ensure safe live arrival. We will have our owner review this matter on Tuesday when he returns to see what can be done, if anything.

This customer was told that "Our owner Chris would review his situation upon his return Tuesday. Chris had the day off Friday for his birthday" in addition to this reply and it was left at that.

This customer has continued to email us and deny his obvious shortcomings. A partial refund or credit probably would have been issued. That was until the "guilt trips" started to arrive....... And the lawyer threats. Thats okay, we can also play that game. We have retainers for a reason!

Note the quotes are from a message received from said customer. Our statements follow below. Color coding is probably stripped from the message.

“ i read the email you sent to my fiance about the green tree pythons. first of all , they were not left on the door step, there were 4 people home at the time of delivery (abbey, her sister, her mom and her brother) to include i was on the phone with her when the delivery person arrived. “


Unfortunately we have no way to prove this because you failed to check with your carrier as we specified! You were SPECIFICALLY told to check for this in the email you yourself had to read and confirm before delivery was made. This is exactly why we send these messages; perhaps you thought we were making it up.



“ive contacted my lawyer and also informed military lawyers of this situation. i would like my money refunded.”



This is fine, we will be expecting to hear from them. We will be happy to put them in contact with our attorneys; we expect they will tell you the same we have stated. You were well aware of our stated terms, and you were also forced to acknowledge our terms a second time when replying to the pre-delivery message. You were given ample opportunity to allow us to extend our standard live arrival guarantee to you. You failed to do what was required; we simply cannot prove what you have stated. Tracking states the parcel was left on a doorstep, that alone voids your guarantee. Your account with Federal Express also states you have a signature waiver on your address, our attorneys have already confirmed this Friday with the carrier. You were told specifically that signature releases void live arrival guarantees; you were asked if you had one on your address from FedEx, and you were told that if you were uncertain to CHECK because many people are unaware of such waivers. You stated ‘no’. Our attorneys have also been provided with this message of yours which acts as a legally binding document andor contract.



“i also would like to remind your trying to rip off someone that has been fighting this war on terrorism for the last 4 years and currently in iraq agian. someone that risks his life for your freedom to live in this beautiful country, MY country and right to do what you do. so remember on the next veterans day the $553.50 that your trying to rip off. “



Your contribution to our way of life is no excuse for ignorance.

No one is trying to rip anyone off, if this is the case… You ripped yourself off!

Our terms of sale are very specific, you yourself also had to sign and remit the information provided in the pre-delivery email before we would even ship your order. This is policy. We do this to give our customers a chance to make sure they will qualify for our guarantees because we understand that some people may simply not read our terms of service. In this case, it is apparent that you did not, and it is also apparent that you read our email and obviously figured that it was not worth taking a few moments to have your faince call fedex to be certain there was not a signature waiver on your household. You unfortunately have no one to blame but yourself; we do applaud your attempt at a “guilt trip” however. Bravo! It is the apparent “last-ditch” effort by a person who has obviously been shown to be in the wrong. Again, there is no excuse for ignorance; we give each and every customer our live arrival guarantee and every single chance to make sure they qualify for it. You failed to do this and you are simply unable to blame us. Had you had your fiancé pick up the phone and check for the waiver we would be able to VISUALLY confirm a signature when we checked tracking. You made this impossible for us, had you followed what you were told this would not be an issue and replacements or a creditrefund would have been issued.

Our attorneys have been forwarded your correspondence; we will look forward to hearing from them. Your very own reply to our pre-delivery email is below again for your review. Please note the areas that contain your answers and your complete and utter failure to do what was specifically forewarned. Especially note the location of “No Exceptions” when explaining the signature waiver policy. Again, Ignorance is no excuse. Your replies are in red, the terms in which you obviously “skimmed” and should have read are in green. May I remind you that this confirmation is in fact legally binding, forward it to your attorneys. I would hate to see you loose any additional funds keeping this from your attorneys and persuing a course of action that will result is definite loss. We have been down this road before with people who refused to do what was necessary, and we’ll be more than happy to do it again.

All further correspondence will be issued and processed by our attorneys as we have been instructed. Good Day.


-----Original Message-----
Subject: PLEASE CONFIRM

Automated Order Confirmation, you MUST reply to this message!



We are processing shipments for shipment Thursday, Friday morning arrival. Please answer the questions below and confirm your actual shipping address. On many occasions customers forget to include this information in correspondence with us, or the address designated in PayPal is not correct.



Replies bust be received no later by 1PM Eastern Standard Time. Replies received later than this will ship the following week. If for some reason you are unable to receive a delivery Friday morning, please note this below. If replying later than the time specified, remember to include available acceptance dates.



1. Brief outline of your order, date of final payment.

green tree pythons (biak, aru) $553.50 on november 7





2. Shipping Address



ABBEY Z.
xx xxxxxx xx
DEPEW, N.Y. 14043

(nameaddress censored, this is the customers fiancegirlfriend who accepted delivery)



3. Will someone be on hand to personally sign and accept this package?yes



4. We are shipping using FedEx. Do you have a "signature release" on file with this carrier? no

(This allows carriers to leave parcels unsigned at your doorstep, if you are not sure we suggest calling fedex to remove a waiver if it exists. Many customers have this and are unaware, it is always best to check prior to accepting live deliveries. A signature waiver will result in forfeiture of live arrival guarantee since we are unable to receive proof of signature or personal acceptance of package(s). There are no exceptions to this policy whatsoever.)



5. What is the expected overnight low temperature (F) for your location on the evening of delivery. (If delivery is taking place more than three days from receipt of this message you may skip this question.)about 30-40 degrees



Thank you, a response IS required to this message.

again, as you can see above all steps prior to delivery were taken to inform this customer of obvious terms of sale, most would not have done so. in fact most sellers simply ship without confirming even shipping addresses when paypal payments are received. we do not ship until we confirm and make customers aware of possible issues that may hurt them in the rare instance of a DOA. Unfrotunately this is one of those few and far between cases of a troubled shipment and a customers ignorance to terms, even when he was forced to read and reply before getting his order.

I also did not appreciate the guilt trips this "service member" tried pulling while he continued to avoid the fact he blatantley avoided doing what was expected of him to make this a successful transaction, or atleast to qualify for a guarantee he is now trying to make a claim against. I am all for supporting our service men and women, we have made countless donations this year alone. Hell, my own birthday is on Vetrans Day!

Service to our country is not a free pass to ignore rules and guidelines. If a person serves our country does that make any other business make warranty or guarantee exceptions? No. Perhaps discounts, lower rates, extended periods of coverage, etc. It does not excuse ignorance and no matter how much I'd like to help an individual out, I cannot excuse this type of behavior. I was actually prompted to issue a credit but after Pat and Glenn forwarded the additional mails he sent us after he was told that I would deal with this Tuesday, I had seen enough...........

We would have been willing to help this customer in some way, but now it is safe to say we are simply forwarding further correspondence, if any, to our attorney. I am left feeling no guilt whatsoever for leaving this situation just as it stands. This customer should have simply owned up to the fact that he failed to do his part and this situation would have been handled. Credit, replacement of sorts, something..... I've come to the conclusion now that I want nothing more to do with this individual and further correspondence on this matter will be directed to our attorney.

The customer will also be liable for any and all wages encoured as per our terms, and we will also be seeking deflamitory, libel, andor slander angles as well. Taking this matter publicly without the facts and quoted emails we have received from other parties support this action, we have been told we cannot disclose these however.

IMPORTANT NOTE:

Orders are legally binding contracts. When placing an order you confirm that you have read, fully understand, and agree to these terms of sale. You also agree to pay all expenses including legal fees, court costs, and attorney wages paid by the seller when attempting to collect on a breech of these terms. We will not be held responsible for customers who wish to ignore our terms of sale. All sales are final.

Had this customer simply come to terms with the fact that he could have actually done his part to make this delivery more of a possible success and abide by our terms, his fiance would probably be looking at two replacement chondros right now. Live and learn Sgt.


Also, please excuse me if my replies to this thread are brief, I wanted to be informative so hopefully more folks accepting live parcels will look into these sorts of things to help sellers guarantee and confirm their deliveries, not to make the same mistakes as this guy did..... But our attorney has stated that I should not speak further on this matter. I've stated what I set out to state, please feel free to discuss amongst yourselves

This individual posted this situation on another public forum which prompted me to address this matter appropriately, of course he left pertinent information out from his claims...... He has since ceased his ignorant replies but I still wanted to make sure people were aware of this situation.

All of you out there who have had signature releases on file or who have customers with such releases please be sure to remove them.... These releases are becoming very common and they do nothing to help breeders prove delivery details and offer guarantees. Be careful, its always best to check if uncertain!

Have a great weekend!

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

Chris I think you did the right thing by standing your ground esp with the emails over and over while you were out.

I gave a refund once on a DOA without a signature, I was new and gave the benefit of a doubt since they emailed me about 2 hours after it was "left at door" in 40 degree temps.

Then I found my jacksons for sale 3 or 4 days later in an ad that they buyer had been double shipped and didn't need them.

Sad that some have to suffer from the rules but they are there for a reasona nd my gosh you told them YOU HAVE TO SIGN and IF you have a WAIVER have it REMOVED!

I don't think you can be any more clear than that!

 

[Chris@TSE]

thank you

I know that we made every effort to avoid situations like this, it is the reason we started issuing these types of mails in addition to listing terms. It leaves customers unable to use the tried and true excuse... "but I didnt see your terms..." or "i did not know"

Ignorance is no longer an excuse using this method, and we've avoided many misdirected shipments and had numerous people notice waivers that they had not even requested. Way many more pro's than cons, I knew someone was eventually bound to play dumb though

Such is life.

 

[romad119]

If anything he should be better at details and understanding directions. I definitely hope I'm not in a position to rely on him during my next overseas trip.

 

[Chris@TSE]

amen.............. !

I very much doubt the legitimacy of his "Service" but thats another story all together, and not important. He certainly had plenty of time to email us this weekend for someone who is supposed to be overseas serving our country on the syrian border. Oh well, not important..... I figured I would just leave that one alone and stick to simple facts giving him the benifit of doubt.

 

[PaulSage]

Chris I think you did the right thing by standing your ground esp with the emails over and over while you were out.

I agree with Wendy. You did the right thing, in my opinion, and handled it well. If someone is hoping/expecting that you'll break your rules for them, they're much less likely to succeed with this type of attitude.

I don't understand what the military service had to do with it. WHY someone would even mention it, much less expect it to buy them some special privileges in this situation is beyond me.

Chris, I think it sucks that you had to deal with this. But, I'm glad you posted it. I have heard about the "signature release" issue, but until now have forgotten to include it in my own T.O.S. So thanks for bringing it up.

As far as the potential for a defamation and libel case against you, I believe the courts would likely rule that you would be considered a voluntary public figure (given the nature of the industry and where it was posted), and therefore the burden of proof would be on you to prove that what was said/posted/published was indeed untrue. Each state may have slightly different laws for these cases, however. Good luck with it all either way.

 

[Chris@TSE]

I'm not too worried about it, I'm sure our attornies have all they need to proceed if we wish too. I was told not to share specific articles of information such as forwarded mails and correspondence from other people this person corresponded with. I'm sure this is what prompted their interest in that position. Regardless, I'm done with the situation personally.

Thanks

 

[PaulSage]

heh... should have said:

As far as the potential for a defamation and libel case against THEM

 

[Chris@TSE]

np, i figured as much

 

[Justin Mitcham]

How long after the shipment arrived did he contact you? What was the reason the GTP's arrived dead. Did this guys lack of compliance contribute to the Gtp's death's? Des this guy know about this thread?
I ship a fair amount, and never had any issues like this come up in 10 years.In fact the only DOA I ever had in over 1000 shipments is when hurricane Wilma caused a package to sit in a warehouse for over a week in 100 degree heat.So to me such TOS clauses seems like a easy way out, not accusing you of using it as a way out just I have never had a reason to use such, nor have I ever needed a lawyer on retainer to handle my customers???. Maybe if your shipping or TOS causes such issues , you might want to improve your methods. I have found it common for drivers to enter "left at front door" when the package was signed for, so that could be a mistake on there part.Do you have written proof from Fedex that they actually had a waiver, or you just assuming that Fedex is perfect and didn't make a mistake?In my experience Fedex only does this at the customers request, so if the never made the request then it is Fedex's mistake, usually you need to sign something to waive this.Can they provide the signature or proof he waived this?
What I am getting at is you admit the shipment came in dead, and that is most likely your mistake for not packaging it correctly(unless his mistake in following instructions caused them to die).Animals just don't die unless something dramatic happens.And if you use properly insulated boxes with 48hr or 72hr heat packs even long delays or being left outside shouldn't be a problem. The customers seems to of made a mistake by not following your instructions...did his mistake contribute to there deaths. I doubt a customer would kill two GTP's for a refund, easier to just say I am not happy with them.
IMO if he can prove the shipment arrived dead , didn't sit outside for several hours. You should cover it TOS or not...I know it sucks that people don't listen, but if you didn't pack them correctly to begin with then you should cover it. If it sat outside for several hours in the cold then no you should not cover it. Proper packaging generally eliminates the need for these types of TOS. With proper packaging a GTP could sit outside in cold weather for a couple days with no problems. As long as you use the right heat packs ,insulation etc..
Personally it would suck if I got a package in , received it personally, and they were DOA, I contact you just to hear, "you didn't take care of the signature waiver so no refund" this policy seems to assume that since a customer didn't listen he is ultimately at fault or is lying no matter the circumstance. I could understand if it was 6pm and they arrived at noon. But to have a policy that seems to automatically doubt the word of your customers seems a bit off to me.
To me the best way to handle this situation would be:
1). Look at the time of delivery and compare it with the time he contacted you.
2). Proof of DOA like pictures

To me a common sense approach would do well here and fair to both parties..

If he contacted you shortly after arrival I think it would be safe to assume they didn't sit outside all day. Relying 100% on Fedex to make this determination seems unfair to me.
If pics can be provided then safe to say he's not lying about the DOA.
If you can reasonably reach a conclusion that the animals were not killed by "foul play" (like someone is going to walk up to a house grab there box and drop kicking it a few times), or sat outside in unfavorable weather all day then you should issue a refund. Keeping his cash on the basis of a technicality when the facts can prove they came in DOA (which is your fault)seems morally wrong to me.
Personally if this was my customer I would be embarrassed that the animals were packed so poorly to not be able to survive an overnite trip, I would of replaced them or issued a refund, no excuses or technicalities.
This is my opinion based on the information provided by you, if the items sat outside for an extended amount of time in bad weather than I can understand your position.But if Fedex claims it was delivered at noon and he called you in the next couple hours than no I don't understand why you feel it necessary to keep his cash....Especially if ultimately the packaging is what caused the problem , not the waiver of signature.

 

[Chris@TSE]

How long after the shipment arrived did he contact you? What was the reason the GTP's arrived dead. Did this guys lack of compliance contribute to the Gtp's death's? Des this guy know about this thread?

What part of left-on-doorstep did you fail to understand?
If you would have read this is exactly what we were unable to prove without reasonable doubt due to this customers non-compliance. This customer took this matter publicly on another forum and is well aware of its now public nature. He has since chosen to "live and learn" and somewhat acknowledged his role in the chain of events..... I cannot comment on this particular aspect in detail, it may be part of a sensitive legal discussion in the near future if need be.

I ship a fair amount, and never had any issues like this come up in 10 years.In fact the only DOA I ever had in over 1000 shipments is when hurricane Wilma caused a package to sit in a warehouse for over a week in 100 degree heat.

Thanks for sharing. We do a great deal ourselves and this was definately a interesting situation to say the least. One I hope we do not see again.

So to me such TOS clauses seems like a easy way out, not accusing you of using it as a way out just I have never had a reason to use such, nor have I ever needed a lawyer on retainer to handle my customers???.

Our TOS is quite specific for good reason, to avoid these issues. It has worked very well in the past and MANY breeders have written asking permission to use the very same.

I am glad you never needed a lawyer on retainer, luckily we have had very little use for such retainers. It is always nice having such however these days running a sucessful business.

Maybe if your shipping or TOS causes such issues , you might want to improve your methods.

Actually no, it does not cause any issues. Only with customers who fail to heed simple instruction, or prove to be ignorant.

I have found it common for drivers to enter "left at front door" when the package was signed for, so that could be a mistake on there part.

You think? Again, if you would have read what was said in this thread you would have gathered by now this was a situation involving a signature waiver. A signature waiver that voided a live arrival guarantee, the same signature waiver the customer claimed not to have, and the same signature waiver the customer was told may be on his residence PRIOR to delivery in a emailed confirmation. A message he was forced to read and respond too, it was suggested if he was uncertain that he check with the carrier, and that many customers have waivers such as these without prior knowledge so it is always good precaution to spend a moment or two to check. Better safe than sorry. No thought was given to this precautionary measure even though we took the proactive steps to inform this customer.

Do you have written proof from Fedex that they actually had a waiver, or you just assuming that Fedex is perfect and didn't make a mistake?

Again. Please learn to read so our time here is not wasted. FedEx was contacted directly and the waiver was confirmed.

In my experience Fedex only does this at the customers request, so if the never made the request then it is Fedex's mistake, usually you need to sign something to waive this.Can they provide the signature or proof he waived this?

Read above. Actually a verbal request can prompt a driver to initiate such a waiver in the future. A simple "I wont be home tomorow but im expecting such and such, can you just leave it outside?" would do it in some cases, but what people do not understand is this can become permanent practice. I have been told that FedEx will be wiping ALL waivers clean in the near future when incorporating a new system. We will see how things go. We have never had an issue quite like this involving waivers, it is VERY rare we encounter a DOA, which is also why we give the "left-on-doorstep" scenario reasonable doubt. In fact, as stated before, the customer left us nothing but reasonable doubt since he felt like ignoring our suggestions and obvious warning. Even if he was not the party accepting shipment, he was well aware and was in contact with the person accepting shipment well before delivery as he had stated himself.

What I am getting at is you admit the shipment came in dead, and that is most likely your mistake for not packaging it correctly(unless his mistake in following instructions caused them to die).Animals just don't die unless something dramatic happens.

No, I have not admitted this. In fact this is another situation all together... Which unfortunately I cannot touch base on really. Let's just say the information provided during the "claim" was also insufficient and still left reasonable doubt. All of this aside however, yet again.... The customer was informed such a waiver would void a live arrival guarantee, and was informed of the possibility of its existance without his prior knowledge. Any buyer with the same "reasonable doubt" would be quite willing to spend a moment to check just to be safe. From the hundreds of customers who have purchased from us in recent months this has been no problem, and many have enjoyed and complimented us on our new pre-delivery confirmation. It is VERY efficient and has worked quite well. It also removes any doubt from a sellers standpoint when dealing with customers who choose to "play dumb" in the rare event of an issue. Nine times out of ten, these customers usually are trying to obtain something for nothing and it is proven shortly thereafter. I am not saying this specific case is one of those, but it is still quite cut and dry.

And if you use properly insulated boxes with 48hr or 72hr heat packs even long delays or being left outside shouldn't be a problem. The customers seems to of made a mistake by not following your instructions...did his mistake contribute to there deaths.

Yes, it could have. There is sufficient reasonable doubt to support this therefore the claim was denied. You should really learn how to read Justin

I doubt a customer would kill two GTP's for a refund, easier to just say I am not happy with them.

I've seen alot worse! You would be very surprised as to what some people would do........

IMO if he can prove the shipment arrived dead , didn't sit outside for several hours. You should cover it TOS or not...I know it sucks that people don't listen, but if you didn't pack them correctly to begin with then you should cover it. If it sat outside for several hours in the cold then no you should not cover it. Proper packaging generally eliminates the need for these types of TOS. With proper packaging a GTP could sit outside in cold weather for a couple days with no problems. As long as you use the right heat packs ,insulation etc..

The package was shipped and prepared correctly, the other twenty or so parcels containing the very same various chondro locale babies that very same day arrived to their destinations in perfect order. We ship using the same methods with GREAT success. Andd the kicker, again if you had actually READ this thread, was... We would have probably issued this customer a credit or partial refund of sorts had he not ignorantly ignored what he failed to do and simply wait until I was in Tuesday to review this issue. Unfortunately he could not and decided to flood us with messages. Pat and Glenn both contacted me over the weekened and got me up to speed, after reading the jist of his statements I simply had enough. Again, try readin Justin. I do not appreciate having to repeat myself for those not willing to read information that is already here.

Personally it would suck if I got a package in , received it personally, and they were DOA, I contact you just to hear, "you didn't take care of the signature waiver so no refund" this policy seems to assume that since a customer didn't listen he is ultimately at fault or is lying no matter the circumstance.

Yes, it would suck, but again he has no one to blame but himself. There was reasonable doubt to deny this claim, and if you were warned prior to delivery about a signature waiver, denied having one even though you were told that many people have them and are unaware of them, and it may be in your best interest to check because they WILL void a live arrival guarantee....... I think most people would understand their partial fault in the matter. This person could not even acknowledge this point whatsoever, even after replying to our pre-delivery notification and reading it himself.

I could understand if it was 6pm and they arrived at noon. But to have a policy that seems to automatically doubt the word of your customers seems a bit off to me.
To me the best way to handle this situation would be:
1). Look at the time of delivery and compare it with the time he contacted you.
2). Proof of DOA like pictures

To me a common sense approach would do well here and fair to both parties..

If he contacted you shortly after arrival I think it would be safe to assume they didn't sit outside all day. Relying 100% on Fedex to make this determination seems unfair to me.
If pics can be provided then safe to say he's not lying about the DOA.
If you can reasonably reach a conclusion that the animals were not killed by "foul play" (like someone is going to walk up to a house grab there box and drop kicking it a few times), or sat outside in unfavorable weather all day then you should issue a refund. Keeping his cash on the basis of a technicality when the facts can prove they came in DOA (which is your fault)seems morally wrong to me.

Everyone is entitled to opinion, and as I have stated this situation has been dealt with. This is by no means a "what should I do" thread. This is a "what has been done" situation and it stands. Again I am unable to comment on some specifics as previously mentioned, but as stated numerous times in the past there was sufficient reasonable doubt to deny this claim. The customer was also issued a very specific pre-delivery notice in which he had to confirm specific details. This message gave him ample warning of the signature waiver policy specifically, and also offered suggestion stating that we recommend customers call and check on this status with FedEx. Again, ignorance is no excuse. And as I had stated earlier, had this customer not addimenatly denied his role or failure to comply with these issues we probably would have come to a much more pleasant conclusion. In fact he (or his fiance) would probably be staring at replacements now. Read, read, read Justin.

Personally if this was my customer I would be embarrassed that the animals were packed so poorly to not be able to survive an overnite trip, I would of replaced them or issued a refund, no excuses or technicalities.

They were not packaged poorly Justin. Assumptions will get you nowhere, we have been in this business for quite some time and have done so succeddfully. Anyone can attest to our packaging.

This is my opinion based on the information provided by you

That is VERY amusing. This should read.. "This is my opinion based on the information I chose to read, and the information I chose to ignore"

if the items sat outside for an extended amount of time in bad weather than I can understand your position.But if Fedex claims it was delivered at noon and he called you in the next couple hours than no I don't understand why you feel it necessary to keep his cash....Especially if ultimately the packaging is what caused the problem , not the waiver of signature.

Packaging did not cause this issue, if it had we would be processing twenty or more DOA's. Especially considering that many if not all of our parcels that day traveled further and met more extreme conditions. Where you assumed this, I'll never know. But again, please take the time to actually read in the future. I do not enjoy repeating myself, nor do I enjoy making you look any less intelligent than you truly are. You seem like a swell guy, and you seem to have a great point of view. I respect that, just do your best to read whats available before making conclusions or stating opinions. Opinions based on assumptions will prove to be just that.... assumption.

Thanks for your input Justin, this matter has been handled and dealt with accordingly. I do appreciate your contribution and opinion. Luckily this is not a situation we have to see often, our pre-delivery notices actually help customers avoid these situations if they are heeded. This just happens to be the rare case where someone simply "skimmed" through it and did not bother checking. To me, when expecting a LIVE animal delivery, it is the LEAST you can do if at all uncertain or suggested by your buyer. It seems quite careless and ignorant to ignore your failure to do so after-the-fact as well. Again, had this customer simply admitted his role in this situation we would have went against our TOS in this case and came to a reasonable conclusion that would have benefited him entirely. Probably replacements if S/H were to be covered or something similar, but as I said before...... His ignorance to these facts proved the furthest from helpful when determining a course of action. It was apparent this person could not wait until I returned Tuesday to review this matter and it was also apparent that in the majority of correspondence he made a sound effort to avoid acknowledging his failure to comply on numerous occasions.

I do not see history repeating itself here, and I am sure we will eventually learn something from this and incorporate it into our existing policy to help our customers be better informed and protected prior and post-sale. Thank you.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Excuse the typos! Wow...

 

[Jim O]

Excuse the typos! Wow...

Here ya go...

 

[Chris@TSE]

Thanks pal

 

[Dennis1]

I would like to hear the buyers side of the story before i formulate an opinion

 

[Chris@TSE]

I would like to hear the buyers side of the story before i formulate an opinion

No offence, but your opinion Dennis is honestly not wanted. I'd rather not have you contribute to any thread I start, and this will not change. I would just assume hear what Bobby Pruett or the folks from Bearded Pets had to say before having to view anything you had to say. Again, no offence.

Please "contribute" elsewhere. Thank You.

For those looking to rid themselves of Dennis after viewing his other "contributions" feel free to click the world peace link in my signature. Thank you.

 

[Cat_72]

All I can add here is that I have received snakes from Chris, and it was VERY professionally packed. It was quite chilly outside when I received them, and even though FedEx doesn't get here until later in the day, they were still nice and toasty warm, very active from the moment I opened the box. Of course, I was waiting at the door when FedEx pulled up.

As a buyer, I actually LIKE the idea that Chris goes to extra lengths to make sure all of his "fine print" has been read....sure, it covers him, but it also makes sure that you as a buyer have actually read it and fully understand his terms.....to me, that doesn't just say, "I'm just covering my butt", but it says he really cares that you are going to be a responsible buyer and not let those animals sit out on the porch for 8 hours until you get home.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Also, "his side" can be viewed here

 

[Chris@TSE]

All I can add here is that I have received snakes from Chris, and it was VERY professionally packed. It was quite chilly outside when I received them, and even though FedEx doesn't get here until later in the day, they were still nice and toasty warm, very active from the moment I opened the box. Of course, I was waiting at the door when FedEx pulled up.

As a buyer, I actually LIKE the idea that Chris goes to extra lengths to make sure all of his "fine print" has been read....sure, it covers him, but it also makes sure that you as a buyer have actually read it and fully understand his terms.....to me, that doesn't just say, "I'm just covering my butt", but it says he really cares that you are going to be a responsible buyer and not let those animals sit out on the porch for 8 hours until you get home.

Thank you Cathy. Your thoughts and words are appreciated

 

[dzoo]

Maybe its just me but I found the instructions about the signature release a bit confusing perhaps you want to "dumb it down" for the future, when I first read it I thought you WANTED them to have a sig waiver on file.

4. We are shipping using FedEx. Do you have a "signature release" on file with this carrier? no

(This allows carriers to leave parcels unsigned at your doorstep, if you are not sure we suggest calling fedex to remove a waiver if it exists. Many customers have this and are unaware, it is always best to check prior to accepting live deliveries. A signature waiver will result in forfeiture of live arrival guarantee since we are unable to receive proof of signature or personal acceptance of package(s). There are no exceptions to this policy whatsoever.)

Perhaps something like this:

4. In advance of receiving your animals call your local Fed Ex office and tell them you want to sign for all of your Fed Ex packages and that the driver is NOT to leave any packages at your door without obtaining a signature. If the driver does not obtain a signature upon delivery the Live arrival guarantee will be void.