Jamie Kaps - Guarantees, Signature Releases, & The War on Terror.

[Chris@TSE]

Oh, also..... temps held in some cases in our test scenarios even longer than the "40 hours" specified on the packs. Those things are pretty darn reliable..

We do a great deal of packing, and have even issued packing instuctions on various sites that many breeders and dealers use as their own!

We have never had an issue regarding a packaging problem...... ever. And I am certain that this DOA, if it is even a DOA, had anything to do with packaging whatsoever.

 

[turtlepimp]

Chris,it honestly sounds like your pride is messing with you in this situation.I have always taken you as a loudmouth,but never an unfair man.You know better than anyone that if this dupe didn't come at you with threats,you would have reacted differently.But he did,and now you are in a pissing contest over a few possibly dead snakes.You know you are only as good as your name provides.And your name(minus the loudmouth thing) is seemingly in jeopardy.
I have personally found that if you have a problematic customer,get the animals back and issue a refund.Than put them on a blacklist.Sell them nothing ever again.We all get nut jobs from time to time.Ever seen that guy pierced to gills,spike hair,tatooed at a reptile show?Point is,like everything else,some people in the hobby just aren't right.Some kill thier purchases without a clue on husbandry and expect a refund,other just claim it either never showed,or it died in shipping.You can not help it,it is part of the hobby/industry.
Some sales will be blown over circumstances beyond your control,it is a fact of life.My advice?Save your name.Skip the lawyers,get the monkey off your back.Get the GTPs back(dead or alive),give the refund,and remember this guys name.
You may be past all this,but any negative ink can hurt your name.Don't get me wrong,you went above and beyond what most vendors would do to ensure a safe trip,but this one just did not work.

Andy Sury

 

[Chris@TSE]

My name is in no jeopardy here, and my actions in this matter have already been taken. I would have gone ever further "above and beyond" for this individual had he spared me the garbage I received this weekend, and I would have overlooked his neglect to adhere to obvious terms that were plastered in his face. His ignorance after the fact, libelous statements, and pathetic guilt trips were enough, but still did not seal this deal. The moment he stated he would seek legal recourse we did what most businesses would do, if expecting a legal scenario the situation is better left to the people you pay to deal with such matters. I denied the claim finally and stated that his decision was fine with me, his future corresondence would be sent to them. 'nuff said.

again, his actions in this matter left me little choice to begin with but I would have probably worked with him. unfortunately his OWN "pride" was the issue here. Not mine. I was more than willing to swallow mine, and have so on numerous occasions.

thanks for your input though!

 

[Chris@TSE]

and also, there is no monkey on our back here, as I already stated, this issue was closed and done with. the customer himself also stated this, saying he would "live and learn"

he still found trouble in admitting his fault regarding the failure to comply with terms, he simply could not bring himself to admit it... or even acknowledge it, but it was pretty much finished....

the people here however ignored this and have acted as if this was a claim in progress.

its not. its done. if he wishes to change his mind though and seek the legal recourse he spoke of in his first messages to us, he is more than welcome too.

 

[Greg Riso]

Regarding the pics

If the pics provided are from the customer I have to agree they don't appear dead at all. A dead animal does not have that kind of muscle tone since they'd appear limp. When I first saw the pics I didn't realize they were provided by the customer (if in fact they were). I thought you were just showing an example of how you packed them.
If I had a customer located only half an hour away I wouldn't even dream of shipping an animal to them. I think it's a little strange the buyer didn't try and arrange to pick up or meet you to purchase them if they lived that close. I drive half an hour to the airport one way to ship animals every week and don't think twice about it. Did the buyers ever try and aquire the chondros sans shipping?

 

[Chris@TSE]

nope, those were the cusomer photos. as i stated, they failed to give us anything that would even help support their claim. I understand its a crummy situation, and I wanted to help, and probably would have upon receipt of the DOA's....

but this customer was simply too darn ignorant, and the moment the lawyer word was dropped, i passed it off..... I frankly did not have the patience to deal with this guy to be honest with you. I tried though. I refused to comment on the sig waiver, refused to acknowledge the terms he agreed too, refused to acknowledge the pre-delivery mail he was force to respond too and the signature waiver notice and suggestion, just all around a pain in the butt. then the comments regarding service, libelous comments that were made and emails from others received through him..... just went about everything the absolute WRONG way. it made it nearly impossible to deal with this matter to satisfaction, and i am only able to bend so far. I apologize if some feel I handled this wrong, but I am very confident that this was handled well and if it is taken further for some reason, if he changes his mind for some reason, im better off allowing our attorneys to do their job. of course he had better of saved the doas if he wishes to seek such recourse..... obvious though...

thanks greg

 

[Chris@TSE]

I think it's a little strange the buyer didn't try and arrange to pick up or meet you to purchase them if they lived that close. I drive half an hour to the airport one way to ship animals every week and don't think twice about it. Did the buyers ever try and aquire the chondros sans shipping?

Nope, we would have even delivered.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Like i said, i did not even touch on that matter..... if you want my honest opinion i think it was a scam from the start. the animals are probably very much alive, and this person made an open effort to avoid personal contact.

but i give everyone the benifit of doubt, people here however love bashing and THEN considering facts later

I forgive you all ....

well, most of you

 

[KelliH]

The snakes in the photos sent don't appear to be dead. And I would require more proof than that. Like photos of the snakes being held and just limply hanging there, obviously dead... Or even better, the dead bodies of the snakes sent back to me. If those are the only pics the guy sent, well, I can understand why he gets no refund. He has not prooved that the animals are dead! And what's up with him taking pics of the package before it's even opened, who the hell does that anyway??

 

[Chris@TSE]

someone knowing they are set out to scam you

this is the stuff i was unable to comment on and still cant.

I hope you guys understand, please continue on this angle, you're on the right path. i wish I could comment!!!!!! DAMN!

 

[shrap]

Kelli just hit my thoughts dead on. First about the snakes not looking dead and also taking pics of an unopened, UNDAMAGED box.

If I thought the buyer was sincere I think 2 hours is a little petty to hold someone to a TOS, but the pictures really make me wonder about the honesty of the claim. Particularly when you consider the person was only a half hour drive away from Chris. Who the hell ships, or wants shipping when you are that close? Makes no sense at all.

 

[Chris@TSE]

go on.................. lol


closer miagi-son.... closer...........

 

[Chris@TSE]

lets just say that if I had my way that this would have been a BAD GUY\SCAMMER post for SURE. I cant say much more than this, everything you need to come to the proper conclusion is here, and if there is anything I can add I'll try.....

 

[Jim O]

I'm going to agree that those do not look like dead snakes to me. Something is not adding up, as at least one, if not both, appear to be changing position between shots.

I have enlarged the pictures slightly to 600x450 and adjusted the light levels only.

First the Biak:

This is the first photo. Not the position of the head and the shape of the neck:

Now the second photo. Again, look at the head and especially the neck:

Now the third. This snake has changed position. You can see the eye:

The Aru is a bit more obvious is my opinion. The following three are the photos, and are presented in the order that they were shot based on the file names, which are numbered by the camera sequentially:

To my eye the snake is in different positions. If the snake were dead and not yet rigid it should not hold that position when handled. If already in rigor mortis, then the position should be fixed. Same holds true for the other snake.

Now I looked at the tail of the Aru. For this I zoomed in further. These are the same photos, cropped to save space, and again presented in the order taken. Look at the position of the tail as it "moves".

In that last photo, the tail is against the body, and clearly in a different position than in the first two. Some of this may be due to handling, but that tail position is does make me wonder.

 

[Chris@TSE]

oh, and i'd like to apologize to justin as well...... your heart and mind were in the right place, I was just a bit aggrivated that I was unable to speak on full detail regarding this matter and more time was spent on other issues rather than obvious facts I was hoping would be caught sooner. I guess I expected a partial beating just like any BOI post, but i figured someone would catch the right train of thought sooner than they had

 

[Chris@TSE]

this is a good example of what a DOA photograph should represent. an animal obviously deceased. no question.

(note: this is NOT associated with this case or situation, it is a photograph from a past claim. in fact, one of OUR claims, not a customers lol)

regardless, all I can say is that the animals shown are doubtfully deceased. the packaging photographs are also very KEY. such is location and choice to deliver. do the mat hand go with it. thanks everyone! sorry i cannot be of more help.

 

[liquidleaf]

Yeah. Look at the eye visible on one of the last photos. I haven't seen a whole lot of dead snakes, but the eye seems perfectly clear. (I have a GTP, the striped eye is normal). And the pythons each have the typical triangular-shaped cross-section muscle tone - they do not look limp. GTPs prefer to be coiled on a branch, and if they can't (like if they are in a container), they coil around themselves, just like these are!

In the past I have made inquiries to Chris about animals he's had available, though I have never purchased from him, and he was MORE than willing to arrange a local pick-up to avoid shipping. He doesn't have a retail storefront, so I can see why he doesn't advertise this on his website to everyone so he doesn't get loads of looky-loos asking to see his entire stock unless they really mean to purchase.

And about the ventilation - from those photos - there may not be vent holes in the boxes but at the same time, the boxes were not taped on every edge (so air could get in) from what I could see, so asphixiation (sp) probably would not be the case. The box look fine, especially for such a short trip, with more than adequate insulation for what our weather was at the time.

These animals really look alive to me. If they weren't, they would at least be limp, and if the heatpack had gotten too hot, they'd look dehydrated (which they don't). Wouldn't their eyes be cloudy if they were dead?

I think from what I've read Chris didn't even have a CHANCE to try to work something out with the customer before they started saying "you'll be hearing from my lawyer!" If I ran a business and 1. saw that the customer answered pre-ship questions falsely and 2. started talking about lawyers right away, I'd leave it to my lawyer as well.

The customer could easily have arranged to bring the snakes directly to Chris to show him they were dead instead of showing photos that look quite alive.

 

[liquidleaf]

I was posting as Chris was writing his. Yeah, the dead example photo does have a cloudy eye. Hmm........

 

[Chris@TSE]

I'm going to agree that those do not look like dead snakes to me. Something is not adding up, as at least one, if not both, appear to be changing position between shots.

I have enlarged the pictures slightly to 600x450 and adjusted the light levels only.

First the Biak:

This is the first photo. Not the position of the head and the shape of the neck:

Now the second photo. Again, look at the head and especially the neck:

Now the third. This snake has changed position. You can see the eye:

The Aru is a bit more obvious is my opinion. The following three are the photos, and are presented in the order that they were shot based on the file names, which are numbered by the camera sequentially:

To my eye the snake is in different positions. If the snake were dead and not yet rigid it should not hold that position when handled. If already in rigor mortis, then the position should be fixed. Same holds true for the other snake.

Now I looked at the tail of the Aru. For this I zoomed in further. These are the same photos, cropped to save space, and again presented in the order taken. Look at the position of the tail as it "moves".

In that last photo, the tail is against the body, and clearly in a different position than in the first two. Some of this may be due to handling, but that tail position is does make me wonder.

Jim, you are a saint amongst men....... Thank you for stating the obvious, you are a champion in my eyes.

Thanks, can we still be buds? LOL

 

[Greg Riso]

Final Post, I Promise

lol, well Chris, in all sincerity after I've had a chance to sit back and look at all of the facts my perspective on the issue has changed considerably (about 180 degrees to be honest). I have to agree the pics taken of a pefectly sound box, the appearance of the animals being alive and not deceased, and having animals shipped when they're such a short distance away seem hokey to me at best. One more thing is the "live and learn attitude" of the customer. It seems they really aren't all that upset if they're willing to eat a loss of over $500 that easily. Kind of makes me think they didn't lose anything if you get the gist.
I get upset when anyone tries to use TOS to justify "stiffing" a customer. In this situation, however, I don't think this is the case at all. Frankly, I think I'd question everything in exactly the same manner as you have. Now please excuse me while I wipe this egg off my face LMAO.