Bad Guy Jay of Franken Chams

[Lucille]

Jay,
So far there is no proof that your cage was responsible for anything, I would not give him money or more critters.

 

[Ed Clark]

Jay, your customer had the oppertunity to examine the cham before he bought it.he then bought it. I do not see you responsible for anything he is saying. my opinion is that he is trying to hustle you out of a free cham or money.furthermore I do not see you as the bad guy here.

 

[Raidous]

I've attached a few pictures. The point of this whole fiasco was to address a dangerous event caused by the magnets to the vendor\breeder, get warnings out there for fellow customers, and motivate the creator of this magnetic design to improve it to prevent this from happening again. I only came to this board AFTER having reached out through facebook, gmail, and text message(All having no response ). My first attempt being Tuesday the 17th when the events occurred. I did NOT want to post here to begin with. Of course I was scared, angry, and still am upset to this point. I saw my animal suffering, paid a large fee, had 0 attention conveniently until I posted on this board, was not warned of dangers, and was cursed out, threatened, and disrespected through text message. (I have these saved as proof though there is no point to present that). Sure it would be great to be compensated monetarily or with a discount but at the end of the day that is secondary and I don't need or care all that much about that. The bad talk was completely unnecessary at me being a customer and victim and most of all fellow animal lover. I work at a pet store, got my degree in studying animals, and have had pets since i was a child. I am NOT uneducated nor a stranger when it comes to customer service or animal care. The health of the animals should ALWAYS be a primary concern and I feel as though there has been little to none for "Machete" 's from Jay or his advocates. The pictures I am attaching are of the magnet's size in cm with a ruler, another picture with the SAME length being observed on ONE of the minor EXTERNAL injuries using a cm ruler on the chameleon, a picture of the vet invoice because apparently no one believes this really happened, and finally another ventral photograph of the chameleons dewlap showing more of the EXTERNAL injuries. I emphasize that additional damage has been INTERNALLY as well and that up until this point after the injury the chameleon is NOT eating normally, giving me the impression the tissue and or tongue may have been damaged. I am not a vet however I will pursue a follow up visit to find out if he will be okay and what I must do to provide him a good life if that is possible. I do not blame anyone for being skeptical as I would be as well. However these pictures should affirm things or hopefully inspire curiosity and thought. I will be seeing the vet again soon and request a written signed document stating the exact circumstances that "Machete" was seen in as soon as possible. I will also update this post with the findings of the next visit which hopefully will be good ones.

 

[Raidous]

To follow up on what had been brought up a few times by people. The chameleon was thin when I purchased him. Was he anorexic on his death bed need an IV with food supplement thin? Absolutely not. He was thinner than I'd like...however he was also active,spunky, friendly, and had beautiful coloration at his age. More about the reason of purchase was the excellent deal I was offered for a really nice sized started cage for him and the Cham for $320. Jay's cham's were beautiful and he and his associate were friendly and interactive when I made the purchase. The individual cham I liked just happened to be visibly thin at the time, which honestly I didn't care about at the time and I still DONT particularly care because now he is nice a plump. I am NOT bashing the health of his animals, their visual quality, NOR the care they receive(d).

 

[Ed Clark]

Sure it would be great to be compensated monetarily or with a discount but at the end of the day that is secondary and I don't need or care all that much about that. The bad talk was completely unnecessary at me being a customer and victim and most of all fellow animal lover. I work at a pet store, got my degree in studying animals, and have had pets since i was a child. I am NOT uneducated nor a stranger when it comes to customer service or animal care.

You say you have experience and know what you are doing. then why would you put your cham in a cage that you say is dangerous? clearly with your experience you would have seen a potential problem. the accident was unfortunate but I do not see Jay being responsible.

 

[Raidous]

Thank you for the comic relief @Ed Clark. I'm not sure if there are hundreds of vendors selling magnetic cages but it was the first one I had seen so forgive my ignorance for not knowing they existed. It looked like a brilliant idea and up until my chameleon ate one it was . I will also admit I did NOT research magnetic design in cages before purchase. The cage I was sold was not covered in barbed wire or electrical wires so I assumed and believed that the cage concept was fine and safe. It should be obvious that if I thought I was putting my Chameleon in an unsafe environment I wouldn't have done it. And more obvious that I didn't know there was danger at all until after the incident. It was indeed a freak accident but happened none the less. Unfortunately in reality there are no absolutes. The magnetic cage SHOULDN'T have influenced the chameleon's injury but then again the Titanic SHOULDN'T have sank either. The unexpected can always happen and I found out first hand. HYPOTHETICALLY If a company designs a baby crib and the screws aren't designed to be secure enough in a joint...in one freak accident a baby manages to get one loose, swallows it and chokes. Is the baby at fault? Are the parents who followed directions at fault? Is the screw at fault? The company is. And from that point on is responsible. Now people are aware of a dangerous possibility and hopefully the design will be improved\altered, and customers will be more educated as well made a priority.

 

[Ed Clark]

Whats next Vincent.will you go after who ever created the cricket if one should bite your cham and possibly give him an infection.

Your cage accident was unfortunate,you got mad then decided that the guy that sold you the cham and cage would pay.

Glad I could bring you some comic relief.

 

[Ed Clark]

I'm not sure if there are hundreds of vendors selling magnetic cages but it was the first one I had seen so forgive my ignorance for not knowing they existed. It looked like a brilliant idea and up until my chameleon ate one it was . I will also admit I did NOT research magnetic design in cages before purchase.

Vincent, I don't believe that your cham ate a magnet. every cham I ever owned needed a visual stimulus to feed such as a crawling or moving insect.

 

[Raidous]

I won't entertain that with a response.Read the contents of the vet invoice. After my follow up appointment I will post additional pics as further verification.

 

[guruza]

It sounds and looks an awful lot like Vincent was playing with the magnets and his chameleon at the same time and thought he should try to combine the 2. No way that chameleon ate a magnet voluntarily and somehow got to 2 other magnets. Im betting Vincent dropped a magnet in the chameleons mouth and stuck 2 others to the chameleon thinking it would be funny and then couldnt get the first magnet out like an idiot.

 

[Tortugas]

Not knowing a lot about Chemilians, it seems like the damage should heal, and maybe that discoloration will disappear with time and sheds. Also, if it is not moving, would it try to eat a magnet? Just asking.

Bill

 

[hhmoore]

Please describe how you were told to assemble the cage.
And explain how the chameleon came to not only try to eat one magnet, but subsequently got 2 more attached from the outside (one on each side). The problem I am having with your story is that, if the magnets were attached to something, it seems highly unlikely that the chameleon could have pulled the first loose to get it "lodged within his dewlap" then managed to get (not one, but) two more magnets attached externally.

 

[Lucille]

I won't entertain that with a response.Read the contents of the vet invoice. After my follow up appointment I will post additional pics as further verification.

The vet was not present at the time of injury. If he/she offers an opinion on the nature of the injury, that would be a professional opinion; if he/she offers an opinion on how it happened it holds no more weight than any of our opinions.

 

[Jay Sick]

lucile the vet is not a designer i am and i assure you her opinion on how the magnet got in the cage will favor vincent cause he just spent however much supposed unneeded money with her. The thing that is funny is i tell all my customers to call me rite away if ever a issue i may not have a degree but if i had to say what i am closest to being a professional at it is cham health and anatomy.

 

[kdreptiles]

HYPOTHETICALLY If a company designs a baby crib and the screws aren't designed to be secure enough in a joint...in one freak accident a baby manages to get one loose, swallows it and chokes. Is the baby at fault? Are the parents who followed directions at fault? Is the screw at fault? The company is. And from that point on is responsible.

Woops! Externalizing blame is a hard habit to squelch. There IS such thing as a "nobody's fault" situation. Also, it sounds like this might have happened due to your own faulty assembly of the cage, not of the seller. If IKEA were responsible for buyer's troubles with assembly, there would be no more IKEA.

Vet bills hurt, you will be remorseful of the $630 hole in your pocket for awhile, but the seller doesn't appear responsible in this situation.

 

[Raidous]

I will repeat myself again because maybe not all viewers are reading all of my posts. The external damage does NOT seem to be THAT severe and I trust that with sheddings it will look better. Whether it scars or not I don't really care. The primary concern I have is the damage done within his dewlap to his TONGUE and throat muscles because he is NOT eating normally. He will NOT shoot is tongue out. He attempted once for a cricket and then withdrew his tongue and moved forward to attempt bite at it (which didn't work). Some of the magnets given to me I used to bind the green perches together in a grid like design as verbally directed at purchase. And not warned to not to do. From my observation there is a visibly weaker magnetic pull between the individual round magnets and the perches, making it easier to remove a round magnet from a perch than a round magnet from a round magnet. This fault in design MAY have been to blame. I repeat I am uncertain. And to further explain the circumstances. He had eaten 1 magnet. The strength of it attracted 2 additional magnets. 1 clamping onto either side of his dewlap from the OUTSIDE trapping the internal magnet and binding the 3 together. As said after my follow up appointment I will get the vet's description and the second invoice posted here. Please read my previous posts before commenting or replying, I was very precise and thorough with my descriptions of the chameleon's situation and that at the vet. I also find it sort of amusing that not many readers have expressed any concern or empathy for the health or future of the animal victim himself. This posting is a warning of dangerous possibility that could happen with a cage of this magnetic concept. I won't argue my point further seeing that there is no need to. I will merely post after I receive the future documents.

 

[kerrek]

Vincent, I don't believe that your cham ate a magnet. every cham I ever owned needed a visual stimulus to feed such as a crawling or moving insect.

If a feeder was crawling over the magnet and he got the magnet instead of the feeder he'd eat it assuming he had the strength to pull it off. I have also had chams just chew on things in their cage. Mine have an affinity for zip ties they will go up and just start chewing on the square locking part. So far I've never had an issue with it but if one of them broke it could be trouble. No Idea how this happened but sounds like a freak accident.

 

[LauraB]

every cham I ever owned needed a visual stimulus to feed such as a crawling or moving insect.

Have you never had a cham eat a stationary live plant in an enclosure? Mine have. All of them. It is not an absolute that a cham must have visual stimulus to shoot.

Vincent, you did post a shot of the vet bill that substantiated an emergency visit, sedation and the removal of an oral foreign object; the bruises on the throat and neck seem to jive with the size of the magnet you posted.

Do you have a photo of the cham with the 2 magnets attached to either side of his dewlap? Seems to me the first thing I would have done would be to take a shot of that cham to give credence to that very rare and almost unbelievable scenario. I mean, you took the "after" shots; how about the "before" shots?

 

[Jay Sick]

Again i will ask that every google rare earth neodymium magnets and look how powerful the smallest size they make is and then look at the size of one in question the cham would need to be the incredible hulk of chameleons

 

[hhmoore]

Jay - since the OP doesn't seem to want to address my question, would you tell how you instructed him to assemble the cage? I'm specifically interested in what you told him regarding placement of the magnets.