Bad Guy Jay of Franken Chams

[tkevan]

Jay,
What grade magnets do you use? They look to be .5"x.125"?

 

[Jay Sick]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiMTbu32n8Y&feature=youtu.be

after all this is settled i will no longer use magnets for the interior branches unless requested by customer and everyone who gets them is singing a waiver "this is why we can't have nice things anymore" lol ahaha

 

[tkevan]

https://www.kjmagnetics.com/calculator.asp

For those who wish to figure the force needed to move the magnets from each other.

 

[Jay Sick]

i have no idea what grade was used on his cage we use different ones for different settings i have a entire tool cart of diff ones all are super strong. If i run out of one i use the other but none are week at all

 

[Raidous]

Hhmoore I was instructed by Jay at time of purchase to arrange the perches in a grid like array of differing heights to create a "canope" upper level, mid level, and darker/cooler lower level. The ends of the perches had magnets super glued to them . So by placing the perch end (where the magnet is is to the screen and a magnet on the outside of the screen they attract and hold the perch in place (i did that ). The way the perches overlapped with each other looks like crosses. One perch on top of another to make the cross shape And between them a magnet since the perches are magnetic and link to the magnet to be held in place. As I said though I did observe a weaker magnetic strength that is easier to break between perch and magnet when compared to magnet and magnet. I am not saying this hold is weak but this could explain the possibility of the cham removing a magnet if a cricket was by the magnet . Going on ...since the magnet to magnet strength is so strong. Once the magnet was in the dewlap its not hard to imagine that magnet attracting a few others that were not as strongly bonded to other perches. I will get a picture up today when I'm home from work. For some reason I can't post pictures or access a few other options on here with my cell phone (which is what I've mostly being doing from work ) I did generally describe the set up I believe in a previous but but not detailed I apologize hhmoore that probably made the situation cloudy to imagine .

 

[jj-mitchell]

I work at a pet store, got my degree in studying animals, and have had pets since i was a child. I am NOT uneducated nor a stranger when it comes to customer service or animal care.

I am curious, what sort of degree do you have?

 

[Jay Sick]

To be honest with everyone on this thread I have seriously read enough crap this week that I really could care less anymore. I know my design is good. I am more than confident in what I do I'm not standing trial because some one was not careful i feel bad for what ever supposedly happened to the chameleon but it was not my doing if your are not happy I will buy back cham and cage and setup otherwise im pretty much done on here. Someone mentioned to me that I am defensive I have no issue in agreeing with them because there are way more important things in life than playing judge and jury on a forum board because someone did something wrong with a cham and cage I sold them. You paid a great price for the cham and setup which leaves me.no room to compensate you for a vet bill. That I have no responsibility towards, my offer to buy back everything stands otherwise I am finished posting on this board. I think my offer to end this nonsense is beyond fair I apologize to anyone who finds me to be blunt

 

[parrotlady]

I think your offer is more than fair!

 

[Helenthereef]

Is it possible that a very active Chameleon could have knocked one of these internal magnets to the (non-magnetic) floor, where it could have been eaten without needing the strength of the Incredible Hulk?

Or that one of these internal magnets, which sound as though they are not permanently affixed to branches, may have been dropped in the tank during construction (again onto the non-magnetic floor)?

 

[Jay Sick]

No it is not possible these magnets break skin google them

 

[guruza]

To be honest with everyone on this thread I have seriously read enough crap this week that I really could care less anymore. I know my design is good. I am more than confident in what I do I'm not standing trial because some one was not careful i feel bad for what ever supposedly happened to the chameleon but it was not my doing if your are not happy I will buy back cham and cage and setup otherwise im pretty much done on here. Someone mentioned to me that I am defensive I have no issue in agreeing with them because there are way more important things in life than playing judge and jury on a forum board because someone did something wrong with a cham and cage I sold them. You paid a great price for the cham and setup which leaves me.no room to compensate you for a vet bill. That I have no responsibility towards, my offer to buy back everything stands otherwise I am finished posting on this board. I think my offer to end this nonsense is beyond fair I apologize to anyone who finds me to be blunt

A very fair offer if anything the OP posted is infact true. If your telling the truth, OP, take him up on his offer. If not, do nothing and try to grow this thread. Lets see what you choose.....

 

[tkevan]

Jay,
I think you're overstating the capabilities of a .5x.125 N35 magnet. Since you have no idea what grade you use, we'll choose the N35, as it's the cheapest, and most common.

Magnet to magnet, the pull force is a little less than 5 1/2 lbs. Now, separate those magnets by a mere 1/32 of an inch, that force drops almost in half.

 

[Jay Sick]

O well thank u Mr wizard for that insight also thank u for assuming what I use is cheap when u find me a cham that can move a 5 pound weight ill pay you 3,000 for it. 2 pound weight only gets yah 1200 so better bulk up yah cham I hear repashy bug burger is good stuff to bulk up. Maybe i can make a commercial for The Repashy guy that shows a cham trying to eat a magnet but can't then show him down a bag of bug burger and then poof almost like Popeye eating spinach he eats ten magnets and pulls a tank with the magnets in his mouth. SUPER CHAM STYLE !!!!!! I think i'm gonna tie 3 pound weights to my chams now and train them for the 2015 cham Olympics. GO TEAM SICK, USA BABY !!!!!!

 

[Lucille]

i have no idea what grade was used on his cage

O well thank u Mr wizard for that insight also thank u for assuming what I use is cheap

I don't think your snarky answer was called for. You cannot blame anyone for going ahead with an assumption since you yourself did not know what grade magnet was used.

 

[Jay Sick]

yes lucille you are right but in essence it just further proves the cham did not eat a magnet because now even if it was the weakest magnet. We all know a young panther aint pulling 5 and or 2 pounds of weight. i have 30 cages here and no one has chowed down on any magnets yet. Again i have proven my self and someone else has done the math to back it up so i am finished on here i hope a moderator CAN SEE that aside from me being a smart @$$ which has nothing to do with this thread. I am in the right and please remove this thread.

 

[Lucille]

Jay these threads are permanent.

 

[Chris Anderson]

Jay,
I think you're overstating the capabilities of a .5x.125 N35 magnet. Since you have no idea what grade you use, we'll choose the N35, as it's the cheapest, and most common.

Magnet to magnet, the pull force is a little less than 5 1/2 lbs. Now, separate those magnets by a mere 1/32 of an inch, that force drops almost in half.

Thanks for posting this information. Based on that, you can make a rough determination on whether or not the chameleon would be able to separate the magnets.

A Pound Force of 5.5 lb is equivalent to just under 24.5 Newtons (N). Female Natal Midlands Dwarf Chameleons (Bradypodion thamnobates), which average only 6.642 cm SVL, will produce an average bite force of 24.74 N (da Silva et al., 2014 - PLoS ONE 9 (1)). The animal in question, however, is a Panther Chameleon (Furcifer pardalis), which are known to reach over 52 cm in total length, but typically only reach about 40 cm in total length (Necas, 2004). If we assume the typical size (40 cm TL) and an approximately 50% tail length (thus a 20cm SVL), F. pardalis can be expected to be just over 3x the length of female B. thamnobates (20 cm / 6.642 cm). This is great, but you still need to know how a change in length relates to a change in bite force.

The force a muscle can produce scales with muscle cross sectional area rather than length. Dimensional analysis tells us that area is proportionate to length squared (area is calculated as the product of two lengths), so area (and thus force) would scale in relation to length squared based on a pattern of geometric similarity (Hill, 1950 - Sci. Prog. 38). Thus, since F. pardalis is expected to be approximately 3x the length of female B. thamnobates, you would expect their bite force to on average be 9 times (3 squared) that of female B. thamnobates under geometric similarity. So, it would not be unreasonable to expect that an adult male F. pardalis could produce a bite force of over 222 N, or a pound force of almost 50 lb!

Since, as has already been mentioned in this thread, some chameleons will bite and chew on things in their cage (sticks, leaves, flowers, etc.), it is feasible that the chameleon was curious about the shinny magnet and tried to bite it. Given the bite force F. pardalis can be assumed capable of producing relative to the magnetic pull of the magnet, it is not unreasonable to believe it would be able to detach the magnet. This is particularly true given that the magnetic force drops off so quickly. If the pull between two magnets is higher than the pull between a magnet and the branch (probably not an unreasonable prediction), it is possible other magnets could become detached from the fake branches due to proximity to a magnet in the mouth.

In any event, this is only a hypothetical scenario based on some relevant data, but illustrates that it may not necessarily be as absurd as has been presented by Jay. Even in this scenario, I believe it was an accident, and I don't think Jay should be held responsible, but I do think he should take the issue seriously and consider the possibility in any setups he makes and sells in the future. That said, given Jay's posts in this thread, I would never do business with him!

Chris

 

[Jay Sick]

O WELL THEN IN THE WORDS OF MY UNCLE JERRY "YOU CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE IN THIS WORLD BECAUSE THE WORLD WAS DIVIDED BY SEA FOR A REASON IF WE ALL AGREED WE WOULD ALL BE SHEEP AND THE WONDERS OF THE WORLD WE LIVE IN WOULD NOT EXIST" THAT WAS THE WORDS OF A GREAT SICILIAN MAN.

I have my own little spin on that "

"Opinions are like @$$ HOLES everyone's got em and usually the people with the most are the biggest ones"

please keep in mind folks it gives me no pleasure in resorting to this sort of humor but for me its my way of venting my frustration . All i do is help people take care of a animal i have a strong passion for it is not my fault that people don not exercise the proper education and common sense in caring for such delicate and fragile animals. I have presented my offer unless anyone else would like to comment and further antagonize a situation i have already tried to remedy mind you a situation that does not even exist because there is no pictures of the cham with the magnets attached to him and or proof that this kid did not put them in his mouth.

I find it funny how the asking price of compensation was 200 and he also asked if it could be 200 off a new cham sighting that he was looking for a new cham ?? So it just does not sit well with me. Circus is over for me now i wish you all the best of luck with your chams if ever anyone should need advice cages or chams feel free to call me i promise i will not break yah B@!!s.

 

[Jay Sick]

Well Mr Anderson as i stated on my previous response i will no longer offer magnets on the inside of the cage just so there can not ever be another scenario like this. If i was not taking this seriously i would not be responding to anything. Personally i find the fact that most old timer cham keepers are never nice to younger or newbies as you can read on most forums and facebook groups i am 33 but have been working with chams since i was 15 half the reason i never posted in my younger years was cause of what i saw and cause of insanity like this i will not mention any names on here but i have seen and i have more than a few youngsters like my self to back up the bullying that the old timers dish out also a little side not i have a degree in biology and environmental science my professor always said i was the perfect student if i could just keep my mouth shut lol ahahah boy o boy was he right.


My responses reflect nothing compared to my knowledge and even now i still learn more everyday i am surrounded by people who are genius in what they do and rarely ever have any issues were i " mouth off " but the pages and the facebook pages and forums are all governed by old timers who if someone disagress with anything said they all gang up and ban and or block what 9 times out of ten is a inexperienced kid trying to learn who does not understand why everyone is mad at him for asking questions. When i reality they should be helped. I appreciate you saying im not responsible but bringing my character in question i will bring the character of the trade it self into question go through the pages boi's and forums and ou will not ever see the negative newbie bashing because mods are smart enough to delete them but it exists and Mr Anderson im sure you know what scenario i refer to in my situation as you are a forum member.

 

[Lucille]

bringing my character in question i will bring the character of the trade it self into question

You alone are responsible for your words. Whatever other people say, you have a choice when it comes time for your own responses.