• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Bad Guy Jeff Barringer --Kingsnake.com hypocrisy

J

Jeff Schofield

Contributing Member
Contributor
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Messages
274
Reaction score
9
Points
18
Age
59
Location
Holbrook Mass usa
I, Jeff Schofield, have been a user and paying patron of Kingsnake.com classifieds for about 7-8 years, maybe longer. I have had the usual forum run ins with trolls, and have had maybe 2 questionable transactions out of hundreds from the classifieds. My account and standing was pretty impeccable til last week, here is what happened:

I got a email from Jeff Barringer saying that my ads were moved from the KINGSNAKES catagory and placed in the HYBRIDS catagory. Now most of us know anything labelled HYBRID can affect your business reputation significantly. At the same time Jeff B went on the KINGSNAKE forum and informed people of the new HYBRID section. I responded to him there saying his term was incorrect on my snakes in particular(they are considered INTERGRADES), so he added "and INTERGRADES" to that same catagory. To this I responded that it was hypocritical to place such ads there considering that there are hybrids of many types in other catagories such as CROCODILIANS, BOA CONSTRICTORS, CARPET PYTHONS, OTHER SNAKES, and others just to name a few. He didnt go on any of those forums asking people to move their ads. In pointing this out to him I asked for a working definition FROM HIM so that we all can comply with the TOS and that everything is fair and we are playing on a level playing field. I copied and pasted about 20 ads from some of the biggest names in the industry who were advertising hybrids including Ben Siegel, Crutchfield, Glades, Pro exotics and others. He responded by closing my account and removing me from his site saying more than once that I was telling him how to run his business. Now by calling my snakes HYBRIDS he has damaged my business, and by unjustly removing me he has damaged it even more. I have all correspondence from him on the matter, not much to argue from his point of view. But as a paying customer of many years in good standing I would expect some level of CUSTOMER SERVICE from him or one of his minions. Am I wrong? Is this LEGAL? As it stands right now there are an aweful lot of hybrids for sale on his site not in the HYBRIDS section including some of the exact snakes I was selling still in the KINGSNAKE section. I waited a week before posting here because he said he had pneumonia so maybe he would see his error and reconsider which he hasnt. He said that my asking to be reinstated was me telling him how to run his business!! Comments and suggestions please!!
 
JeffB

You know I'm not sure as I deleted the ads from the section immediately. I have some goini x brooksi and some getula x brooksi as well. Either way these are subspefic intergrades and not anything resembling a hybrid. Even so, there are plenty of hybrid ads not in the HYBRID catagory.
 
I personally like the changes to KS classifieds, but i can certainly see your point. The snakes you mention are certainly not hybrids by any definition I have seen. But since he changed the category to "hybrids or integrades", technically he is right about your particular snakes. I'm sure there are others that have not made it to that classification that should be there.
 
Jeff Schofield said:
You know I'm not sure as I deleted the ads from the section immediately. I have some goini x brooksi and some getula x brooksi as well. Either way these are subspefic intergrades and not anything resembling a hybrid. Even so, there are plenty of hybrid ads not in the HYBRID catagory.
Click to expand...

I understand why you would want to call them integrades, but I can see how they could be called hybrids as well.

Getula x Brooksi will never breed in the wild. Their paths will never cross, and the Getula as the Eastern Chain King, and not called a Florida King.

Goini x Brooksi will never breed in the wild. Their paths will never cross. In this case you could still call them Florida Kingsnakes, because both of those subspecies are Florida kings.

So, I'm not sure they did anything wrong.
 
I am wishing Jeff the best. Pneumonia can make one very ill indeed. My son had it once and I would not wish it on anyone.

Perhaps if you wait a bit and sent your thoughts, he might understand, but since he did add an additional category he was actually trying to help.
If talking doesn't work things out, quietly withdraw your ads; if others do so as well I believe he might look again since he wants to sell advertising.
 
??

brd7666 said:
I understand why you would want to call them integrades, but I can see how they could be called hybrids as well.

Getula x Brooksi will never breed in the wild. Their paths will never cross, and the Getula as the Eastern Chain King, and not called a Florida King.

Goini x Brooksi will never breed in the wild. Their paths will never cross. In this case you could still call them Florida Kingsnakes, because both of those subspecies are Florida kings.

So, I'm not sure they did anything wrong.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure you understand what the definition of a HYBRID is. For you and others I will post this websters definition:"an animal that results from the mating of parents from two distinct species". Now Brooksi is a trade term for Florida king, they certainly intergrade with Getula Getula(chain kings) through alot of the FL penninsula and other places. Saying that a FL king wouldnt intergrade with Goini....still doesnt explain the fact that all these subspecies are indeed part of the same species and therefore, by definition, cant possibly be a hybrid. And while he did add the intergrade term to the catagory can you see ANY grounds to remove my account?? I mean other than "its my website and I can do what I want"??
 
lucille said:
I am wishing Jeff the best. Pneumonia can make one very ill indeed. My son had it once and I would not wish it on anyone.

Perhaps if you wait a bit and sent your thoughts, he might understand, but since he did add an additional category he was actually trying to help.
If talking doesn't work things out, quietly withdraw your ads; if others do so as well I believe he might look again since he wants to sell advertising.
Click to expand...

I understand illness can make you make bad decisions and thats why I waited a week and contacted him again before making this post. And maybe you didnt understand my original post, he cancelled my accounts, removed my access to forums, and removed all my ads a week ago. I see he did add intergrades to that catagory but my account was already cancelled by then.
 
No offense Jeff --- but crossing a goini and a brooksi is a 'hybrid'; at least as far hobbyists are concerned because it is not a natural intergrade. He put your stuff in the right category.

If you have been a good customer of that site they will let you back on. Just wait a few weeks, apologize, and ask to get back in. They will.

However, if you can't see that most people in our hobby see a goini x brooksi cross as a hybrid (or at least as something other than an intergrade)... well they might not.
With that logic you could sell a Cal King x Outer Banks King as an intergrade. Why not? It meets your definition as well.
 
Jeff,
I can understand your frustration, and don't have much to offer on that front.

However, it isn't any surprise that there are conflicting opinions on the use of the terms hybrid and intergrade. To an extent, it depends on where you learned the terms. One of the key factors I picked up years ago is that intergrades are a mixing of subspecies that share a natural range. In other words, it is a naturally occurring thing. Not all sources will include the italicized pieced, though....and, since the standard definitions of hybrid generally state different species, it often leaves a question in people's minds.

That said, I just went and checked for the heading (to see if its placement could have caused some confusion regarding the intent). It is most definitely a wholly separate category (not intended to be a subset of kings or milks); so, IMO, it is wrong for you to be singled out while others are allowed to advertise outside of that category (this statement is made based solely on the information you have provided here, of course - sometimes there is some back story that helps explain the conflict).
 
Jeff Schofield said:
I'm not sure you understand what the definition of a HYBRID is. For you and others I will post this websters definition:"an animal that results from the mating of parents from two distinct species". Now Brooksi is a trade term for Florida king, they certainly intergrade with Getula Getula(chain kings) through alot of the FL penninsula and other places. Saying that a FL king wouldnt intergrade with Goini....still doesnt explain the fact that all these subspecies are indeed part of the same species and therefore, by definition, cant possibly be a hybrid. And while he did add the intergrade term to the catagory can you see ANY grounds to remove my account?? I mean other than "its my website and I can do what I want"??
Click to expand...

I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you, but you need to learn about what you are selling.

Brooksi is not a trade term for Florida King. A Brooksi is a subspecies of the Florida King. A Brooksi is found in extreem South Florida like Miami, Homestead, and almost to the Keys.

Goini or Apalachicola Kingsnake, is a subspecies of the Florida King, found in the Apalachicola Forest, which is in the Northen part of Florida in the pan handle.

Eastern Chain King is found in eastern United States in Florida, and from southern Alabama to southern New Jersey. This is not a subspecies of the Florida Kingsnake even though they are in the same family.

So, Eastern Chain x Brooksi will never meet in the wild, and Goini x Brooksi will never meet in the wild.

The term integrated is generally used when two species breed who have over lapping territory. This is not the case with what you have.

So by your thinking a Lampropeltis Getula Floridana x lampropeltis Getula Californiae would not be a hybrid? They are in the same family.

My advise to you is, stop your complaining and deal with it. Making waves will keep you off of there longer. If you wait a few months, Jeff will let you back on.
 
East_Coast said:
No offense Jeff --- but crossing a goini and a brooksi is a 'hybrid'; at least as far hobbyists are concerned because it is not a natural intergrade. He put your stuff in the right category.

If you have been a good customer of that site they will let you back on. Just wait a few weeks, apologize, and ask to get back in. They will.

However, if you can't see that most people in our hobby see a goini x brooksi cross as a hybrid (or at least as something other than an intergrade)... well they might not.
With that logic you could sell a Cal King x Outer Banks King as an intergrade. Why not? It meets your definition as well.
Click to expand...

hhmoore said:
Jeff,
I can understand your frustration, and don't have much to offer on that front.

However, it isn't any surprise that there are conflicting opinions on the use of the terms hybrid and intergrade. To an extent, it depends on where you learned the terms. One of the key factors I picked up years ago is that intergrades are a mixing of subspecies that share a natural range. In other words, it is a naturally occurring thing. Not all sources will include the italicized pieced, though....and, since the standard definitions of hybrid generally state different species, it often leaves a question in people's minds.

That said, I just went and checked for the heading (to see if its placement could have caused some confusion regarding the intent). It is most definitely a wholly separate category (not intended to be a subset of kings or milks); so, IMO, it is wrong for you to be singled out while others are allowed to advertise outside of that category (this statement is made based solely on the information you have provided here, of course - sometimes there is some back story that helps explain the conflict).
Click to expand...

brd7666 said:
I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you, but you need to learn about what you are selling.

Brooksi is not a trade term for Florida King. A Brooksi is a subspecies of the Florida King. A Brooksi is found in extreem South Florida like Miami, Homestead, and almost to the Keys.

Goini or Apalachicola Kingsnake, is a subspecies of the Florida King, found in the Apalachicola Forest, which is in the Northen part of Florida in the pan handle.

Eastern Chain King is found in eastern United States in Florida, and from southern Alabama to southern New Jersey. This is not a subspecies of the Florida Kingsnake even though they are in the same family.

So, Eastern Chain x Brooksi will never meet in the wild, and Goini x Brooksi will never meet in the wild.

The term integrated is generally used when two species breed who have over lapping territory. This is not the case with what you have.

So by your thinking a Lampropeltis Getula Floridana x lampropeltis Getula Californiae would not be a hybrid? They are in the same family.

My advise to you is, stop your complaining and deal with it. Making waves will keep you off of there longer. If you wait a few months, Jeff will let you back on.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of the above in red.
 
East_Coast said:
No offense Jeff --- but crossing a goini and a brooksi is a 'hybrid'; at least as far hobbyists are concerned because it is not a natural intergrade. He put your stuff in the right category.

If you have been a good customer of that site they will let you back on. Just wait a few weeks, apologize, and ask to get back in. They will.

However, if you can't see that most people in our hobby see a goini x brooksi cross as a hybrid (or at least as something other than an intergrade)... well they might not.
With that logic you could sell a Cal King x Outer Banks King as an intergrade. Why not? It meets your definition as well.
Click to expand...

Hobbyists have aknowledged the difference years ago, sorry you werent consulted,lol. I didnt breed them, but some of the biggest kingsnake breeders now have them available. And about the catagory, my account was closed before I could move the ads. I waited a week already, let him get over his illness, and he still refused to reinstate me. Here is the exchange:

We started the conversation on the forum and I had told him the difference between HYBRIDS and INTERGRADES, here is his first response

"We will be putting anything that is not a single species or subspecies into the Hybrid category
whether they are "man made hybrids" or "natural intergrades"

If it makes you more comfortable we will change the category name to "Hybrids & Intergrades" "

My response:"Jeff, If a CA boa x SURI is in the boa section WHY are my ads in the INTERGRADE section?? Cant have it both ways!! "

His response:"Mr. Schofield you are in fact telling me how to run my businsess when you tell me I "can't" do something
and frankly now your doing it in public on my forums too.

You have a choice refund or suspension, I don't care which but I warned you and you just kept on."--my account now suspended.

I responded:"Jeff, not telling you how to run your business, sorry you are sick. But I dont think this was well thought out, there are more INTERGRADES in animals than there are PURE ssp. If all the chameleons, geckos, boas, pythons et all end up in the INTERGRADE section, FINE. But if you leave a CA x Columbian boa in the boa section but put my ads in the INTERGRADE section I'm not sure what message you are sending to me or to anyone else. I am trying to HELP you do your job better, by placing my ads in with HYBRIDS you make my job ALOT harder! Think about that as well, Thanks, Jeff"

He responded:"I told you I am home with pneumonia, it is a Sunday, its 2 in the morning and you are continuing to tell me how to run my business.
Now your CCing your friend into our conversation without my permission. Fine he gets to hear this too.

Your no longer a customer. Your accounts are terminated. Your ads are gone.
The only thing you will get from here on in is a refund of your balance.
You are gone permanently. I will not reply nor respond to any further
communication from you of any kind.

Go tell someone else how to run their business."

No one told him he had to respond at 2am if he was sick. I retorted"Jeff, those posts were BEFORE your last email. I in fact rescinded my ad. As a paying customer of many years I would think you would understand my point in principal as not simply argumentative.You obviously changed the heading from HYBRIDS to HYBRIDS/INTERGRADES. Are you saying that it is fair for CA boas x columbians in the BOA CONSTRICTOR section yet my king x king is not allowed in the kingsnake section? I am a very reasonable man and I am willing to listen to your justification but now I'm afraid you dont care that I am trying to HELP you. I am sure I am not going to be the only one with these thoughts and feelings, I dont want my snakes lumped with HYBRIDS and no one else does either. Not sure why you would want to do it. Please dont say "cause I said so its my business..." If I didnt CARE about YOUR BUSINESS I would not try and explain this to you. Again, sorry you are sick, please take some time on this subject as I'm sure there are others that mirror my "loud words". Jeff, you havent made bad or unpopular decisions before so I think I deserve a logical, honest explanation why you would do so now. Thanks, Jeff Schofield"--Does this sound like an unreasonable person?

He responded:"Sir - I am not going to argue with you.
I am just going to refund your balance.
Goodbye."

I responded"Jeff, here are just a few of the ads on your website that offer Hybrids for sale NOT in the Hybrid section. There are ads in almost every catagory and by some of the biggest names such as Ben Siegel, Crutchfield, Glades, Pro Exotics and many others. As you can see if you reread my email, I am asking you a question as I think I am allowed to as a paying customer. Why the selective enforcement? I am NOT the bad guy here, I am basically your employee working to show you that there is a problem in the system. When you are feeling better please contact me ASAP, Thank you, Jeff Schofield
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=6&de=831376
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=6&de=821082
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=6&de=823686
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=92&de=815104
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=92&de=830136
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=8&de=832983
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=8&de=832971
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=8&de=831571"

I waited a week and sent him this today"Jeff, I hope your sickness has broken and you can hear me out. I was not arguing with you before I was only trying to understand why I was singled out. In fact I noticed just today that there are at least 2 dealers advertising the exact same animals as mine in the kingsnake classifieds today(Bay area reptiles/Carolina reptiles). Cindy knows me and I have dealt with a bunch of trolls on the forums before, I hoped you didnt take things the wrong way but I fear you have. Please accept this week as my suspension and reinstate my account so I can continue to add to the community. Thank you, Jeff Schofield"

His response"Mr Schofeld I have taken things the wrong way as far as your concerned. You came to my business and told me I can and I can't do this, and that you were being singled out because we han't moved all the ads to where they were supposed to be
The only singling out that occurred was when you tried to tell me how to do my job, as you once again have done today.
Neither myself nor my moderators can be or can see every advertisement on our site that needs to be moved but we neiuther need nor appreciate your help in telling us how to do our jobs.
As far as I am concerned you are non-grata on our site and I will not respond further."

My last response"Mr Barringer, in no way have I TOLD you how to run your business. In that forum tet a tet I informed you that you didnt have the correct term(hybrid vs intergrade)and frankly figured you knew the difference. In explaining what a intergrade was and what a hybrid was I informed you about all the hybrids listed elsewhere on your site and suggested that a definition was needed from YOU so that we(as PAYING CLIENTS) can properly comply with the TOS. Instead of an answer I got removed from your site. I have copies of all our email correspondence and I was hoping you would reread them and see exactly what I was talking about. By putting my animals in a HYBRID section you have damaged my business. By removing me unjustly from your website you have damaged my business. All anyone can ever ask is a level playing field, it is America, I shouldnt have to ask for it. You will have the opportunity to respond either here or elsewhere but know I take someone damaging my business VERY seriously. Thank you, Jeff Schofield"

Thats it, you can hopefully see my effort and my intent. Comments?
 
Jeff Schofield said:
My response:"Jeff, If a CA boa x SURI is in the boa section WHY are my ads in the INTERGRADE section?? Cant have it both ways!! "
Click to expand...

Jeff Schofield said:
Comments?
Click to expand...

Yeah. This guy was not feeling well, and your response above was a demand and a challenge, not a call to reason.

You were trying to kick butt and he had a bigger shoe.
 
Jeff,
I didn't see what was going on in the forums there, but from those emails it was pretty clear that Jeff was taking offense to your approach. While sometimes things like that can't be avoided, I think in this case you pushed beyond the limits of common sense. I get that you thought you were right; but sometimes (as the old saying goes) discretion is the better part of valor. (I know - easy to say, as a non participant, and unaffected party)
I don't know Jeff at all, so I can't comment on the likelihood of you getting reinstated
 
I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you, but you need to learn about what you are selling.

Brooksi is not a trade term for Florida King. A Brooksi is a subspecies of the Florida King. A Brooksi is found in extreem South Florida like Miami, Homestead, and almost to the Keys.
Goini or Apalachicola Kingsnake, is a subspecies of the Florida King, found in the Apalachicola Forest, which is in the Northen part of Florida in the pan handle.

Eastern Chain King is found in eastern United States in Florida, and from southern Alabama to southern New Jersey. This is not a subspecies of the Florida Kingsnake even though they are in the same family.

So, Eastern Chain x Brooksi will never meet in the wild, and Goini x Brooksi will never meet in the wild.

The term integrated is generally used when two species breed who have over lapping territory. This is not the case with what you have.

So by your thinking a Lampropeltis Getula Floridana x lampropeltis Getula Californiae would not be a hybrid? They are in the same family.

My advise to you is, stop your complaining and deal with it. Making waves will keep you off of there longer. If you wait a few months, Jeff will let you back on.[/QUOTE]

Geez, I really dont mean to be the bearer of bad news but Brooksi is no longer accepted at all, but neither is Goini. Florida kings are not a species, they are in fact a subspecies of the COMMON KINGSNAKE. In Florida and other places they intergrade with Eastern kings. Eastern kings also intergrade with "Meansi"(I still hate that name), and they will all meet in the wild. So, again sorry to have to correct you, but there is no "family" of kingsnakes, they are all subspecies or clades of the Common Kingsnake.
 
I'm not sure

Exactly what you were trying to accomplish, but Jeff B is probably aware of this thread by now, and I do not think that it is going to help you. On a side note, you reported me to KS years ago for asking an honest question in the Field Notes thread. Funny:rofl:
 
??

Wraith said:
So... you posting on the kingsnake forum calling Jeff out and trying to start a riot wasn't the cause of you getting banned? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

"Riots" aside, Jeff didnt know what he was talking about and I really thought I was helping. Seeing that no one else was banned or even had to change their ads YES I was feeling a tad singled out. All I wanted was a reason, a definition, so we can all have the same rules. Was that too much to ask? Maybe at the time, but in the following emails you can tell where I was coming from cant you? Isnt it obvious?
 
Back
Top