Bad Guy Jeff Barringer --Kingsnake.com hypocrisy

[akonitony]

Jeff, I'm afraid you have shot yourself in the foot. As a guy who also has a slight limp now and then, I am an expert in this area. First you need to stop the bleeding by NOT contacting Mr. Schofield or anyone associated with him - ever. Next you need to bandage the wound. You can use other forums for this. Now most people think you change the bandage because it is getting dirty, but the real reason is to check the wound. You might want to think about the advantages of being an intergrade or even hybrid professional. There are some who say purebreds are the only way to go, and they probably are not going to check you out, but I've a feeling if you play your crappy hand you've been delt in an intelligent manner, you might just find a fairly new niche in the market. I can think of one breeder who has done just that, and I won't mention their name, but their initials are MM. They have some of the most beautiful and unique snakes on the market, and this is the opinion of someone who is generally on the purebreds side of the fence. They also make it a point to advertise what they have crossed. Who cares what the definition of hybrid or intergrade is? Look at the animal in question and ask "Is it good". If you can say yes to this question with your snakes for sale, hopefully more people will see why you like them.
As my hero Forrest Gump would say: "... and that's about all I have to say about that".

PS: Oh, and always smell the chocolate to make sure it isn't a turd.

 

[Jeff Schofield]

um

Jeff, I'm afraid you have shot yourself in the foot. As a guy who also has a slight limp now and then, I am an expert in this area. First you need to stop the bleeding by NOT contacting Mr. Schofield or anyone associated with him - ever. Next you need to bandage the wound. You can use other forums for this. Now most people think you change the bandage because it is getting dirty, but the real reason is to check the wound. You might want to think about the advantages of being an intergrade or even hybrid professional. There are some who say purebreds are the only way to go, and they probably are not going to check you out, but I've a feeling if you play your crappy hand you've been delt in an intelligent manner, you might just find a fairly new niche in the market. I can think of one breeder who has done just that, and I won't mention their name, but their initials are MM. They have some of the most beautiful and unique snakes on the market, and this is the opinion of someone who is generally on the purebreds side of the fence. They also make it a point to advertise what they have crossed. Who cares what the definition of hybrid or intergrade is? Look at the animal in question and ask "Is it good". If you can say yes to this question with your snakes for sale, hopefully more people will see why you like them.
As my hero Forrest Gump would say: "... and that's about all I have to say about that".

PS: Oh, and always smell the chocolate to make sure it isn't a turd.

Ummm, thank you I think. I AM Mr. Schofield, hard for me not to contact him,lol. Are they "good"?? No question they are to me and many others, problem is that some people got their panties in a bunch with them and have either complained to JeffB about them or he is one of them himself.

 

[akonitony]

And one more thing: My purebred rotties with papers and OFA certification are actually made up of 11 different breeds of dogs. How do you think we got so many breeds of dog, all coming from the wolf? Concentrate on what traits you want to intensify and before you know it, we will be seeing Lampropeltis getula schofield, or something like that. I also now see I got your last name in the who to NOT contact in that previous post, so please insert Barringer there.

 

[Abish]

"Riots" aside, Jeff didnt know what he was talking about and I really thought I was helping. Seeing that no one else was banned or even had to change their ads YES I was feeling a tad singled out. All I wanted was a reason, a definition, so we can all have the same rules. Was that too much to ask? Maybe at the time, but in the following emails you can tell where I was coming from cant you? Isnt it obvious?

He changed the forum name for you, and warned you repeatedly, and you just kept on both privately and publicly.

I can see 'where you were coming from' (wanting to protect your reputation, and a deeply held fundamental disagreement on semantics that was addressed early on) but it also it looks an awful lot like it was (at least partly) butt-hurt. You may have honestly not intended to, but to me those messages from you seem to have a pretty condescending and nasty tone. If I had pneumonia and had already compromised with you, I probably wouldn't have held it together as well as Jeff B.

There aren't a lot of guys who are going to let you use their own forums to knock them. Hopefully you'll be able to successfully carry on business elsewhere, and be a little more diplomatic when dealing with the boss.

 

[scaledverts]

Irrespective of the hybrid vs intergrade debate (that in itself is often the topic of very long threads in various forums). I think the tone of your emails is what set Jeff B on edge. As others have said, IMO you need to let things die down (that means not contacting Jeff B for a while AND not pushing the issue on other sites) and then attempt to get back in.

The other side of this issue is that he did refund you your membership money (or at least he said he was going to). So as much as you don't really want to hear it, it is his website and he actually can choose to refuse service to someone for what her perceives as lack of respect (whether real or not). So you may be SOL.

That's my $0.02

 

[scaledverts]

I responded"Jeff, here are just a few of the ads on your website that offer Hybrids for sale NOT in the Hybrid section. There are ads in almost every catagory and by some of the biggest names such as Ben Siegel, Crutchfield, Glades, Pro Exotics and many others.

It should be mentioned that at least Ben Siegel has adds in the hybrid section, so either his were moved too or he put them there.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Sorry but what your producing is hybrids. Brooski x Brooski is a species. Goini x Brooksi is a hybrid.

Just like a creamsicle corn is a hybrid. They crossed a rat snake with a corn. While they may be closely related... they are still a hybrid.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

Sorry Jeff S.; the time is right now to backpedal and beg for forgiveness; that's of course, IF, you want to continue selling on KS.. Bum deal in reality; they have moved many of my ads over the year's; I was always thankful I didn't have to reconfigure them?? Go figure??

 

[Jeff Schofield]

x

Sorry but what your producing is hybrids. Brooski x Brooski is a species. Goini x Brooksi is a hybrid.

Just like a creamsicle corn is a hybrid. They crossed a rat snake with a corn. While they may be closely related... they are still a hybrid.

First, Brooksi is not a species OR a subspecies, it is a "clade" or even a "locale". The species is Common kingsnake, the subspecies is Florida king, the "locale" is Brooks canal(Lampropeltis Getula Floridana "Brooksi"). FYI a creamsicle corn is a HYBRID, it is a corn snake(its own species pantherophis guttatus) bred with a emory rat(pantherophis emoryi) then bred back. Lampropeltis and Pantherophis are Genus names, Getula and Guttatus and Emoryi are Species names, Floridana is the subspecies.

 

[Jeff Schofield]

s

Sorry Jeff S.; the time is right now to backpedal and beg for forgiveness; that's of course, IF, you want to continue selling on KS.. Bum deal in reality; they have moved many of my ads over the year's; I was always thankful I didn't have to reconfigure them?? Go figure??

Well, I want to get off the defensive here for a moment. I think anyone can see I was progressively conciliatory in most if not all of my responses. But just as I have had to correct about 3-4 people in this thread alone, ALOT of people just dont know the definitions nor use them correctly. I had to tell Jeff B. and he may not have been happy about it but for someone into Graybands I would think he'd be familiar with those names. No reason to hold it against me. Was I wrong to assume he knew what he was doing? If he had moved my kingsnake ad to a milksnake column, or even a BOA column that would be OK. With the proliferation of morphs I think its safe to say you have to know what you are talking about before you call anything hybrid any more.

 

[poppy]

I guess it boils down to what's most important to you, A or B.

A.) You are right, no budging, to the death, you are right. OR
B.) Advertising your wares on KS.com

If A.) is most important, then I think you are already doing a perfect job of conveying it.

on the other hand,

If B.) is more important than A.) Then I would probably disappear, and let the emotions settle, then contact KS.com in a few weeks and say absolutely not one word other than to appologize your butt off for being perceived as whatever, just appologize for it all.

Eating crow don't go down easy, but time will wash the bitter taste away.

Just my 2bits.

 

[East_Coast]

Jeff, you aren't correcting anyone. You were corrected by Kingsnake.com and now, since they won't see your point of view - they are wrong, right?

Think about that and good luck selling your fake 'intergrades'

 

[akonitony]

Um... Jeff, me thinks the Genus is Elaphe there brother.
After a quick and easy, I cut pasted this: Further taxonomic controversy has included the taxonomic suggestion that the genus be changed to Pantherophis, (Utiger et al. (2002) Russian Journal of Herpetology 9(2): 105–124) but this was rejected by Crother et al. in (2003) Update. Herp. Rev. 34: 196-203. The International Committee for Zoological Nomenclature has not endorsed the change to Pantherophis, thus the correct genus remains Elaphe.

You know, a good night's sleep has often been exactly what I needed when the going didn't seem to be going too well. Yes, as with any fairly large group of individuals, there are some real numb-nuts on this website, but there are also some very, very knowledgeable people here as well. Generally speaking, if I'm not 100% absolutely sure I know about what I'm typing, I would rather been thought of as ignorant rather than type away and dispell all doubt - not to say I have always been successful with this, but I try to learn from my mistakes. As you probably know, the definition of insanity basically states it as repeating the same behaviour and expecting different results, just my $0.02 worth here.

 

[akonitony]

First, Brooksi is not a species OR a subspecies, it is a "clade" or even a "locale". The species is Common kingsnake, the subspecies is Florida king, the "locale" is Brooks canal(Lampropeltis Getula Floridana "Brooksi"). FYI a creamsicle corn is a HYBRID, it is a corn snake(its own species pantherophis guttatus) bred with a emory rat(pantherophis emoryi) then bred back. Lampropeltis and Pantherophis are Genus names, Getula and Guttatus and Emoryi are Species names, Floridana is the subspecies.

This is what I was responding to in my last post regarding the genus thingy. I should have included it so everyone will know I'm not posting off subject here - one of my mistakes I used to make, but have learned to avoid with shock therapy.

 

[Abish]

Well, I want to get off the defensive here for a moment. I think anyone can see I was progressively conciliatory in most if not all of my responses. But just as I have had to correct about 3-4 people in this thread alone, ALOT of people just dont know the definitions nor use them correctly. I had to tell Jeff B. and he may not have been happy about it but for someone into Graybands I would think he'd be familiar with those names. No reason to hold it against me. Was I wrong to assume he knew what he was doing? If he had moved my kingsnake ad to a milksnake column, or even a BOA column that would be OK. With the proliferation of morphs I think its safe to say you have to know what you are talking about before you call anything hybrid any more.

1st bolded: I see the opposite, and I would venture to guess I am far from alone there.

2nd bolded: If people don't know the difference, then I guess the distinction was never that important to make, yes? If people seem to think of intergrades and hybrids as the same thing, then it really wouldn't have hurt your intergrade business much, would it? Especially after he renamed the forum just to make you more comfortable.

3rd bolded: This is exactly the wrong sort of thing to be saying if you want to reconcile and play nice with Jeff B. again. You are still being condescending and bull headed towards him. It is fine to stand on principal and burn the occasional bridge, but right now you've lit the bridge and are wailing about how much you want to walk back across to the other bank, continuing to throw more gasoline on the fire. If you're going to stand on principal, consequences be damned, don't snivel about the consequences.

 

[Lucille]

This seems like one of the Bad Guy BOI threads where you find that the OP is actually a bad customer.

 

[East_Coast]

Abish he did not just burn the bridge. He crossed an ocean, unloaded the ships, and then set the sailboats on fire. Between this stupid (Yeah: STUPID) bad guy post and his ego-driven emails and forum posts slamming Jeff B; he will never get on that site again.

Way to go Jeff. Well at least you got to prove you know more about terminology, right?

 

[KcTrader]

What ever happened to the saying " The customer is always right "???? I will probably be looked at differently but I would have to agree with Jeff S on this one, All classified section posters/payers should have been notified about that section and what animals it was going to include way before they were moved. This would give these people the right to discontinue the ad or relist it somewhere else. I think JeffS has a clear standing on defending his ad and animals, I know not everyone was notified at the same time there is another discussion about ads being moved. I am a business owner myself and when I increase fees its across the board everyone is notified well in advance 30 days or so. This gives them time to decide what they are going to do.

JeffS or any other KS classified poster maybe you can clear this up for me is there a definition of the category when posting a classified ad? Do they give example? Anyway, Why shouldn't all the ads be given scientific Names first and then the common or pet trade name?
This is where using pet trade names make it confusing, why not list the categories in Scientific Names First with pet trade names second? And if it is a L.p.p x L.pk that should still be listed under L.pyromelana (mountain kings), and L.g.floridana x L.g.getulus should still be listed under L.g.(kingsnakes) and so on....

Sorry if I offended anyone but this is MHO....Right,wrong or indifferent......

 

[KcTrader]

Sorry forgot to mention one thing if you cross a Christmas mountain grey band with a Hwy277 grayband is it a hybrid? or Intergrade? or just a generic? Any way you skin it its still a L.alterna. Things change as with L.p.infralabialis and L.p.woodini you don't see many distinguish dealers/breeders selling these anymore they are sold as "AZ Mountain Kings" under L.p. Why?

 

[JColt]

All classified section posters/payers should have been notified about that section and what animals it was going to include way before they were moved. This would give these people the right to discontinue the ad or relist it somewhere else.

That much is true. If your a paying customer then they should have been notified.