Bad Guy Jeff Barringer --Kingsnake.com hypocrisy

[cobraman1]

It's only a well thought out post if it gets your point across. Apparently your's is not well thought out.

It's been proven that corns and rats will breed in the wild. They are VERY closely related. Thus they are an 'intergrade' when they do. It happened in nature. However if you do the same pairing in captivity... they are a hybrid. That pairing was not the work of natural selection.

I suppose next your going to tell me that a cross between L. triangulum and L. getula should be an intergrade. All because they are in the genus Lampropeltis.

Maybe you should stop and think this. Scientists have determined that the following are different enough that they should be in their own SUB SPECIES.

Common Kingsnake, Lampropeltis getula
California Kingsnake, Lampropeltis getula californiae (Blainville, 1835)
Florida Kingsnake, Lampropeltis getula floridana (Blanchard, 1919)
Eastern Kingsnake, Lampropeltis getula getula (Linnaeus, 1766)
Apalachicola Kingsnake, Lampropeltis getula meansi (Krysko & Judd, 2006)
Speckled Kingsnake, Lampropeltis getula holbrooki (Stejneger, 1902)
Black Kingsnake, Lampropeltis getula niger (Yarrow, 1882)
Western Black Kingsnake, Lampropeltis getula nigrita (Zweifel & Norris, 1955)
Desert Kingsnake, Lampropeltis getula splendida (Baird & Girard, 1853)
Isla Santa Catalina Kingsnake Lampropeltis "getula" catalinensis (Van Denburgh & Slevin, 1921)

And since they are in their own SUB SPECIES.... they are a distinct animal. Would like like to call it an 'intergrade' if I bred my Desert King to my Speckled King?

I do believe that is a hybrid... not an intergrade.... but yet they are both only sub-species of Lampropeltis getula or the Common Kingsnake.... which is the exact same thing you're trying to preach to all of us.

How about we breed the California King to a Flordia King. Another "Intergrade"? YOUR logic is flawed. Intergrades have a chance of happening in nature and they are "Intergrades" when they do happen in nature.

Man made = Hybrid.

I have to disagree with you here. Diamond back rattlesnakes and canebrakes have been documented for breeding in the wild. By your logic, they would be intergrades. Not true, they are Hybrids. Hybrids are not all man made. Eastern diamond backs and canbrakes are two different species. I believe (man made or natural) it takes two different species to create a hybrid. Just my opinion. I get Jeff being upset, even though he may have been a bit pushy with kingsnake, but why would kingsnake not care about the opinions of the people that keep them in business. I have a kingsnake account aswell and in dec they sent out any email asking what they could do to improve there website. they wanted to know the customers conserns, but why not now?

 

[Lucille]

It also announced that I am over here on Fauna now, and will be spending more time here. Get used to it,lol.

Unless you change your attitude, you are not going to be a plus to this site. There's a lot of collected knowledge here and more is always welcome, but you need to tweak your attitude before you will be accepted by very many here.

 

[David Scarboro]

Good For You

Its easy to say stop the conversation when you got 30% of what you were paying for back.....at the time and still today there is no clear answer why if you breed hybrid boas you are allowed to post in the boa section but if you breed hybrid kings you cant sell em in the kingsnake section. If someone steals $100 from you are you happy when they give you back $30? $50?? NO, you want it all back or a very good reason why it was stolen to begin with. Alot of people can complain as to why I started this post but it has served its purpose. It has alerted people to the hypocrisy on ks.com, it has shown the level of customer service you can expect no matter if you are a paying member for 7-8 years.....my "14 cents a day"(more like 30 I think,lol)wont kill the owner of the website and he doesnt mind losing business. It shows many the direction of the business. It also announced that I am over here on Fauna now, and will be spending more time here. Get used to it,lol. I will figure out who are the complainers, kids, and the other people I'd rather avoid. It will show me who is skilled in a open minded arguement and who thinks a species is something you flush in the bathroom.

But since you are going to be here, perhaps you would like to address the other customer service complaints trhat you have had. You can't complain about customer service with out cleaning up your own issues. There are threads on this board about it. Then we can bring up the thread where you lied several times about a trade we made. At that time you couldn't even tell the difference between a Red and Eastern Milk. Now you are an expert on taxonomy. Also let us not forget that you sent me an empty box. When you screw people here, they are allowed to tell about it. You have been a regular complainer to Jeff B at KS for years, but your cries here may fall on deaf ears...

 

[akonitony]

There goes the neighborhood?

Its easy to say stop the conversation when you got 30% of what you were paying for back.....at the time and still today there is no clear answer why if you breed hybrid boas you are allowed to post in the boa section but if you breed hybrid kings you cant sell em in the kingsnake section. If someone steals $100 from you are you happy when they give you back $30? $50?? NO, you want it all back or a very good reason why it was stolen to begin with. Alot of people can complain as to why I started this post but it has served its purpose. It has alerted people to the hypocrisy on ks.com, it has shown the level of customer service you can expect no matter if you are a paying member for 7-8 years.....my "14 cents a day"(more like 30 I think,lol)wont kill the owner of the website and he doesnt mind losing business. It shows many the direction of the business. It also announced that I am over here on Fauna now, and will be spending more time here. Get used to it,lol. I will figure out who are the complainers, kids, and the other people I'd rather avoid. It will show me who is skilled in a open minded arguement and who thinks a species is something you flush in the bathroom.

Ooooohh... pick me! Pick Me! Pick MEEEE!!!

 

[akonitony]

Its easy to say stop the conversation when you got 30% of what you were paying for back.....at the time and still today there is no clear answer why if you breed hybrid boas you are allowed to post in the boa section but if you breed hybrid kings you cant sell em in the kingsnake section. If someone steals $100 from you are you happy when they give you back $30? $50?? NO, you want it all back or a very good reason why it was stolen to begin with. Alot of people can complain as to why I started this post but it has served its purpose. It has alerted people to the hypocrisy on ks.com, it has shown the level of customer service you can expect no matter if you are a paying member for 7-8 years.....my "14 cents a day"(more like 30 I think,lol)wont kill the owner of the website and he doesnt mind losing business. It shows many the direction of the business. It also announced that I am over here on Fauna now, and will be spending more time here. Get used to it,lol. I will figure out who are the complainers, kids, and the other people I'd rather avoid. It will show me who is skilled in a open minded arguement and who thinks a species is something you flush in the bathroom.

That's funny Jeff S. You a funny Man! I once dated a species for almost three months before I figured out Leos are the way to go! Welcome to Fuana!

 

[Southern Wolf]

I have to disagree with you here. Diamond back rattlesnakes and canebrakes have been documented for breeding in the wild. By your logic, they would be intergrades. Not true, they are Hybrids. Hybrids are not all man made. Eastern diamond backs and canbrakes are two different species. I believe (man made or natural) it takes two different species to create a hybrid. Just my opinion. I get Jeff being upset, even though he may have been a bit pushy with kingsnake, but why would kingsnake not care about the opinions of the people that keep them in business. I have a kingsnake account aswell and in dec they sent out any email asking what they could do to improve there website. they wanted to know the customers conserns, but why not now?

FYI... according to Dr. Frye's DNA research... Canebrakes and Timbers are the same animal. Canebrakes are like a color morph to the Timbers.

Yes... I too got the same email from KS. It's not that KS doesn't care about the opinions of their customers.. .its how he went about things. It doesn't matter where you are... if your gonna come at the boss (owner of a site)... you better come correct or your gonna be out on your ear. That's where he ended up... out on his ear.

I am a very vocal individual (dont believe it... ask Rich). If I dont agree with policy chage I will tell you and I will state my case. However the difference is ... I do so in a manner that is respectful and most of the time it is done in PM. Im not putting on a show for an audience... Im trying to get him to see things from another point of view.

If I came at Rich with the same mentality that Jeff went to KS with... I'd be out on the streets kicking rocks... not selling my snakes here.

 

[cobraman1]

FYI... according to Dr. Frye's DNA research... Canebrakes and Timbers are the same animal. Canebrakes are like a color morph to the Timbers.

Yes... I too got the same email from KS. It's not that KS doesn't care about the opinions of their customers.. .its how he went about things. It doesn't matter where you are... if your gonna come at the boss (owner of a site)... you better come correct or your gonna be out on your ear. That's where he ended up... out on his ear.

I am a very vocal individual (dont believe it... ask Rich). If I dont agree with policy chage I will tell you and I will state my case. However the difference is ... I do so in a manner that is respectful and most of the time it is done in PM. Im not putting on a show for an audience... Im trying to get him to see things from another point of view.

If I came at Rich with the same mentality that Jeff went to KS with... I'd be out on the streets kicking rocks... not selling my snakes here.

FYI..I never mentioned a timber rattlesnake. I said eastern diamondback rattlesnake. Not sure where you got timber from. Im fully aware of the canebrakes being associated with timbers.

I understand he went about it the wrong way and Im not defending that. Im simply saying that banning someone that is a paying member is a little far, especially when you just asked all paying members what they thought could be better.

 

[Southern Wolf]

FYI..I never mentioned a timber rattlesnake. I said eastern diamondback rattlesnake. Not sure where you got timber from. Im fully aware of the canebrakes being associated with timbers.

I understand he went about it the wrong way and Im not defending that. Im simply saying that banning someone that is a paying member is a little far, especially when you just asked all paying members what they thought could be better.

Nope.. .you mentioned crossing a diamondback with a canebrake.. .and thus since you wanted to argue about taxonomy... I thought it only fair to mention to you that Canebrakes ARE Timbers and has been proven by DNA research by a leading venomous researcher.

 

[cobraman1]

Nope.. .you mentioned crossing a diamondback with a canebrake.. .and thus since you wanted to argue about taxonomy... I thought it only fair to mention to you that Canebrakes ARE Timbers and has been proven by DNA research by a leading venomous researcher.

What does canbrakes being timbers have anything to do with diamond backs breeding with canbrakes/timbers? Your arguement doesnt make sense. Do you think a diamondback is a timber/canbrake? They are two very different species.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Let's see... Diamondback

**scratches head**

Crotalus adamanteus = Eastern Diamondback
Crotalus atrox = Western Diamondback
Crotalus horridus = Timber

Now you never said what kind of Diamondback... but that really doesn't matter. The key is you assumed I was an idiot... but I have had venomous training under a mentor.

What it all boils down to is symantics. Myself and several others use the term Hybrid in a stricter sense of the word. Those that actually push the boundries prefer the term intergrades so they wont be lumped in with the hard core hybrid folks (king x corn) or (Blood x Ball)

 

[cobraman1]

Let's see... Diamondback

**scratches head**

Crotalus adamanteus = Eastern Diamondback
Crotalus atrox = Western Diamondback
Crotalus horridus = Timber

Now you never said what kind of Diamondback... but that really doesn't matter. The key is you assumed I was an idiot... but I have had venomous training under a mentor.

What it all boils down to is symantics. Myself and several others use the term Hybrid in a stricter sense of the word. Those that actually push the boundries prefer the term intergrades so they wont be lumped in with the hard core hybrid folks (king x corn) or (Blood x Ball)

I didn't assume you were an idiot. I assumed you misread my post. There are three diamond back, astern, western, and red. They are all different species. A timber isn't one of the three diamondbacks. My whole point was that hybrids aren't just man made and intergrades aren't always nature made.

 

[KelliH]

I think you should just apologize to JeffB, admit you were an a$$, and hope he reinstates your account.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Kelli.... after this thread... I dont see Jeff B doing any of that. But it would be a nice gesture.

 

[Paige n' James]

Jeff S,
I am new to this site but just want to comment that you do sound like you "think" you know it all and were very condescending in your post to the Kingsnake moderator.(or was he the owner?) I re-read it to make sure that it couldn't have been taken another way but both times it came off very rude. It is always a constant learning curve when it comes to these awesome creatures.
The better way to go about it would have been to let him move them to the hybrid/integrade section and to give it a couple of weeks and to chart your sales to let him know the true way this has effected your business.
By talking OVER people and not listening to what they have to say (we all disagree and it is a given) you turned alot of people off to your business. I am by no means an expert on any of this but have lived pretty happily for 41 years using these strategies. I have spent 22 years in the military(Air Force) as well. V/R Paige

 

[The BoidSmith]

But since you are going to be here, perhaps you would like to address the other customer service complaints trhat you have had. You can't complain about customer service with out cleaning up your own issues. There are threads on this board about it. Then we can bring up the thread where you lied several times about a trade we made. At that time you couldn't even tell the difference between a Red and Eastern Milk. Now you are an expert on taxonomy. Also let us not forget that you sent me an empty box. When you screw people here, they are allowed to tell about it. You have been a regular complainer to Jeff B at KS for years, but your cries here may fall on deaf ears...

Most people here had probably forgotten about this, I had at least. Not looking good Jeff, you may want to start looking for greener pastures, "storm's-a-brewin' "

 

[akonitony]

Most people here had probably forgotten about this, I had at least. Not looking good Jeff, you may want to start looking for greener pastures, "storm's-a-brewin' "

Don't worry Jeff, we all know it was your evil twin, "Skippy", who has been typing all along. As soon as you regain control over your keyboard, set the record straight man!
Leave it alone Skippy, we are onto your evil plan!

 

[LauraB]

quote by Paige69

Jeff S,I am new to this site but just want to comment that you do sound like you "think" you know it all and were very condescending in your post to the Kingsnake moderator.(or was he the owner?)

Jeff B. is the owner of Kingnake. However, he is merely an employee of Jeff S. since Jeff S. paid to advertise there.

It also announced that I am over here on Fauna now, and will be spending more time here. Get used to it,lol. I will figure out who are the complainers, kids, and the other people I'd rather avoid. It will show me who is skilled in a open minded arguement and who thinks a species is something you flush in the bathroom.

Announced. How cute.

As if it is actually important to Fauna users that you figure out who to avoid, who the kids are, who the complainers are (and how ironic - YOU seem to be quite the boisterous complainer yourself, lol!) and who is skilled at matching wits/intellect with an bloated, arrogant ego. Yawn.

 

[akonitony]

As if it is actually important to Fauna users that you figure out who to avoid, who the kids are, who the complainers are (and how ironic - YOU seem to be quite the boisterous complainer yourself, lol!) and who is skilled at matching wits/intellect with an bloated, arrogant ego. Yawn.

Yeah... what she said!

 

[Southern Wolf]

The part he hasn't figured out is.... the folks that he is going to avoid is thankful for that avoidance.

 

[akonitony]

I beleive the appropriate response for #119 above would be Touche'.