JENNIFER HARRISON GOOD GAL!!!

[Chandler Reptiles]

I have been nothing but supportive of Jen since day one of this, talked to her through PM's a few times offering assistance, probing for information and even going as far to offer help once the all clear was given...

She posts bringing new stuff into her place again, no big deal maybe someone gave her the okay to do so not something I would risk but I am not going to call her out on that or even be supportive of that yet. Then she posts the ad and gets called out. I don't know if the email that is posted here is 100% truthful but Jen herself said that she has had no contact from the leading expert from the first time that she had the samples sent to him. Her admission of this after being called out makes me concerned.

I have not once called Jen a terrible person, I really can't because I can't get a feel on what she is doing or thinking therefore I can't view it as a malicious act if has no intentions of doing that and put her into that category of person. I do however want the truth. Jen is not a shy person and her posts are everywhere, so to me she should be able to have a close if not dead on accurate account of every single thing that she has done and been through. I know some of the forums she goes to so it is easy to do a search to find the threads she has started so if it is that easy for me to find issues with her timeline then why is it she can't seem to keep it straight. As anal as I am I would have had this documented from day one in one central place, if nothing else to have a reference to refer back to.

Do I want to be lumped into a group of 'assclowns' or 'trolls'? I really don't care, hell half the people in that category at this point I don't know and the other half I don't like just from posts I have read from them in the past, but for sake of argument tell me how to fit into the popular crowd on this one. Better yet tell me what I should be thinking, should I just ignore the vet thing, should I just ignore the part where she says no animal has left the collection since September of 07 when I know the person that bought a snake from her in November of 07? Please just lead me to the correct cliff so we can all jump off it together...

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

Jeff, why wouldn't the e-mail be accurate? I copied and pasted the entire thing. Want me to forward it to you?

Why would I have any reason to state that Elliot doesn't talk to me any time sooner than now? He is the lab doing the lab work -- which is contracted by Dr. Gordon for the samples he obtained. When any of you have lab work done on your pets through your vet, do you talk to the lab directly or do you talk to your vet? I talked to my vet, and I don't see the mistake in this.

How is my timeline screwed up? I haven't changed anything.

I now figured out where people are getting the idea about the 2 adopted ball pythons. I had posted this ad for 2 rescues in early October:

http://www.alexhuereptiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18085

Only ONE was adopted -- by a member of that forum, and this happened in the very first days of this ordeal -- when only 2 snakes had fallen ill with what we were still thinking was a routine bacterial respiratory infection and nothing to be overly concerned about. The info didn't come out that it was potentially a virus until later that month -- and I immediately contacted the person that adopted that snake to let him know. He replied and said he had him in strict quarantine and he would let me know or take care of it if something happened. He has since contacted me just a month or two ago to tell me all was still well with that male. This person can verify all of the above, or he can verify it to Jeff and Jeff can verify it here.

 

[Medusa Serpents]

A Question.

Jen, I have been following this whole saga from the beginning, And I do feel your pain and your loss. But one thing does puzzle me, this e-mail how can you receive an e-mail that is dated Nov of 08 when we are only in May. Best of luck Frank

" Re: Ophidian Paramyxovirus infection‏
From: Elliott Jacobson ([email protected])
You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe
Sent: Mon 11/19/08 6:54 AM
To: [email protected]
There are several viral infections in snakes that overlap with paramyxovirus infection. Your outbreak may be caused by this virus or it may not. The snake paramyxovirus is distinct from any other paramyxovirus based on sequencing. I know that some in Europe have used the vaccine for pigeon paramyxovirus in snakes. I do not believe that there are any adequately controlled studies to show that it is efficacious. If your veterinarian wants to know what samples to collect and how to collect them, he/she can contact me.
Good luck,
EJ Elliott Jacobson,
DVM, PhD, DACZM
Professor of Zoological Medicine
Bldg 2015, SW 16th Ave.
SACS, Box 100126
College of Veterinary Medicine
University of Florida
Gainesville, Fl 32610 "

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

Because I entered the header manually when pasting it as I don't have the e-mail saved in Hotmail, only had it saved as a Word document (as I had printed it out and given it to Dr. Gordon when presenting him with all of my research info).

 

[Medusa Serpents]

Because I entered the header manually when pasting it as I don't have the e-mail saved in Hotmail, only had it saved as a Word document (as I had printed it out and given it to Dr. Gordon when presenting him with all of my research info).

That seems simple enough. Best of luck Frank.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

I now figured out where people are getting the idea about the 2 adopted ball pythons. I had posted this ad for 2 rescues in early October:

http://www.alexhuereptiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18085

Only ONE was adopted -- by a member of that forum, and this happened in the very first days of this ordeal -- when only 2 snakes had fallen ill with what we were still thinking was a routine bacterial respiratory infection and nothing to be overly concerned about. The info didn't come out that it was potentially a virus until later that month -- and I immediately contacted the person that adopted that snake to let him know. He replied and said he had him in strict quarantine and he would let me know or take care of it if something happened. He has since contacted me just a month or two ago to tell me all was still well with that male. This person can verify all of the above, or he can verify it to Jeff and Jeff can verify it here.

Sorry, posted the wrong ad. This is the correct one:

http://www.alexhuereptiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19228

The same explanation applies, as the person that took the one will verify. The other one that was supposed to have been adopted was never picked up, and after I found out that what I was dealing with was potentially serious, both were taken off the market.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

At this point, I don't have anything else to say. I really don't want to be part of a community that spreads vindictive rumors and crucifies people that are trying to do things as best they can and be as honest as possible. The people that have told me this are right -- nothing I ever do will be good enough for anyone. Even in 5 years, once everything is long since cleared out, people will find something new to sink their claws into. I would rather avoid the heartache and drama, especially as I am most unwelcome now it seems. I have left a message for Dr. Gordon today to see if he can come out here and take care of my snakes sometime today or this week. I am going to keep the ones that mean the most to me as pets, and will be done with this hobby entirely. There is nothing left for me to enjoy about it any more, only stress, anger, depression, and sorrow for what I have lost and the future I used to dream about. I am also no longer funding the research for this virus. I refuse to put myself into debt trying to get answers for something that no longer has anything to do with me and isn't going to do me any good. If others in this hobby want to continue to pursue it for the benefit of everyone, then by all means do so. I can have all records transferred to whoever wants to take over. I'm sorry if this disappoints my friends and supporters, and I greatly appreciate all of you who have been there for me for such a long time. But this is what I have to do -- if I keep going the way I am, I'm going to fall apart and so will everything else I hold dear.

For those of you that will make some comment about this post being dramatic or me "running away" or whatever other BS you can come up with -- well, you know where you can shove it. I don't care.

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

You've walked a lot further down a rough path than most of us would have. Good luck to you.

 

[varnyard]

Jennifer Harrison has been 100% honest here, and I think there are a few of you that need to give her an apology. This is sad at best, and many were very wicked in the attacks on her. I also will add without one ounce of proof, just opinions that mean nothing. Jen has backed up everything she has said here, and I do not see the reason for this constant bashing. Many of you would be wise to grow up a bit and stop the soapbox drama, well unless you have proof to back up your twisted demented opinions.

So Jen is now talking about leaving our hobby, you guys done good there. I guess you got what you wanted, pat yourselves on the back. It is not Jen's loss, but rather yours/ours, a very valuable asset to this hobby is leaving and that is sad. She has given you more information about this virus than you ever knew before. She put the blood, sweat, money, time and tears into getting to the bottom of this and to the facts. And I will also add, I really doubt this bunch would have even come close to doing this.

To Jen, I never doubted you for a minute, you are a good girl as I have stated before. I am sorry that you let a bunch of no name trolls work you into leaving this hobby. However, you know you are always welcome in my camp, and I am one that does appreciate what you have done to help this hobby, you went above and beyond the call of duty here. You have shown time and time again the love you have for your animals, and you are very respected by the ones that choose not to be blinded by this useless/worthless fog.

 

[SPJ]

Jen has stated she will not sell any animals. I think that is all anyone was concerned about (at least all that I was concerned with) so don't you think the issue has now been resolved?

 

[KelliH]

I really don't want to be part of a community that spreads vindictive rumors and crucifies people that are trying to do things as best they can and be as honest as possible. The people that have told me this are right -- nothing I ever do will be good enough for anyone. Even in 5 years, once everything is long since cleared out, people will find something new to sink their claws into.

Welcome to the other side of the fence. This type of "witch hunt" has happened here many times in the past, in fact, some of those that are upset because it is now happening to you have been willing participants in the past when others have been the thread subjects. No one, no one is immune here on this place we have created. If this place is comprised of vindictive people that base their reckless posts on rumors, well, the precedent was set long ago and this type of behavior has always been accepted and even admired. I'm not sure why any of you would expect anything different now.

That being said, Jen, I feel for you. You were very open and forthcoming about this virus in your ball python collection while others, many others that have the same problem, have had for years, keep their mouths shut. This group unfortunately includes many of the "big breeders" of ball pythons so many admire and revere. You on the other hand had the courage to admit it, and I admire you for that, Jen. I don't know if I would have done the same as you, and come out with it publically, I just don't know.

Don't get out of the hobby. I realize you are confused, sad, pissed off, but please don't let what is happening right now destroy part of who you are, which is a herpetoculturist. Trust me, you can get through this and it will be ok. I lost my entire gecko collection in 1999 to cryptosporidium and believe me it was one of the most painful things I had ever been through up until that point in my life, having to not only watch many of my geckos get sick and suffer but also to have to euthanize seemingly healthy geckos, some of them my longtime pets that yes, I loved, simply because they had been exposed.

These sort of "monumental" events happen to all of us that keep herps on a fairly large scale for any extended period of time. We learn from them, at least those of us that have half a brain and a conscience do. I know you are learning and have learned many important lessons from this unfortunate event. Don't give up Jen. (((HUG)))

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Steve, the point is...That hasn't been good enough for some people. She is feeling pressured to destroy her remaining animals by those that continue to stomp her into the ground. Apparently she has finally thrown her hands in the air and said fine, you win...

Anyone here that thinks it ok for these animals to be destroyed disgusts me. Their is no proof that their is still a viral infection in her collection. Uninfected snakes are going to be destroyed for no other reason then the owner has been pushed and pulled in every direction and now feels there is nothing else that she can do. Their has been no reason for the continued bullying when she stated she would not being selling any animals on 05/01.

 

[SPJ]

I don't agree with destroying the animals. There is no reason why she cannot keep them as long as they stay with her to monitor their health.
Don't sell any but don't kill the ones you already have.

 

[shrap]

I am going to keep the ones that mean the most to me as pets, and will be done with this hobby entirely. There is nothing left for me to enjoy about it any more, only stress, anger, depression, and sorrow for what I have lost and the future I used to dream about.

Jen,

You may want to rethink that part right there. I have personally not been around much online for a couple of months now and for very specific reasons. Big Giant Ass Clown Monsters being one of those reasons.

You see, I started feeling the exact same way you are feeling right now a while back. There is just so much ignorance, intolerance, ego, personal agendas and down right unethical crap going on all around us. It really begins to sour us sometimes.

What I found out when I started spending less time on forums, was that it was not the hobby that I had soured on, it was human beings that I had soured on. A.K.A. Big Giant Ass Clown Monsters. Because once I cut out the Big Giant Ass Clown Monsters I noticed that my love and passion for this hobby, for these critters, was as strong as ever.

Big Giant Ass Clown Monsters can NOT make you lose your passion for the hobby. Only you have the power to do that. So keep your critters, keep making your plans for the future, keep doing what you love. Just put the Big Giant Ass Clown Monsters in their true order of importance and you will be much happier for it.

 

[John E Dove]

OK now this stinks!!!
Ms. Harrison has done nothing but try to do her best here.
She was acting in good faith, based on a vet report, when she decided to sell the offspring she has produced.
She has acted honorably when some people questioned her and decided to cancel her sales.
She has been nothing but open, honest & truthful throughout this whole terrible tragedy

Yet in spite of all this a few, (rivals?) (jealous people?), headhunters have done nothing but continue to try to dig up dirt.

Personally, I would not hesitate to purchase ANYTHING in her collection if it fit into my collection. I have even been tempted to get into BPs just to try to get Ms. Harrison's babies get them so I could say in a week, month and year, "Hey all you nay sayers, they are still alive and well", but I really don't have the funds to throw into a project like that.
That said if she does offer something I can work with and I have the funds I'd buy it.

Ms. Harrison,
Don't give up on us based on these few head hunters who have targeted you. There are many of us just reading this thread who believe in you but are primarily just sitting back and watching the horror.

 

[Medusa Serpents]

OK now this stinks!!!
Ms. Harrison has done nothing but try to do her best here.
She was acting in good faith, based on a vet report, when she decided to sell the offspring she has produced.
She has acted honorably when some people questioned her and decided to cancel her sales.
She has been nothing but open, honest & truthful throughout this whole terrible tragedy

Yet in spite of all this a few, (rivals?) (jealous people?), headhunters have done nothing but continue to try to dig up dirt.

Personally, I would not hesitate to purchase ANYTHING in her collection if it fit into my collection. I have even been tempted to get into BPs just to try to get Ms. Harrison's babies get them so I could say in a week, month and year, "Hey all you nay sayers, they are still alive and well", but I really don't have the funds to throw into a project like that.
That said if she does offer something I can work with and I have the funds I'd buy it.

Ms. Harrison,
Don't give up on us based on these few head hunters who have targeted you. There are many of us just reading this thread who believe in you but are primarily just sitting back and watching the horror.

I truly agree. Jen Pm sent.

 

[shrap]

One thing I dont understand is some people saying Jen should not take in anymore animals. When in my mind the only way Jen is going to find out if her current collection is safe is to bring in other animals. Her current collection may be fine and healthy, but that dont mean they are not carriers of the virus.

If Jen is willing I will donate a male Ball when my eggs hatch so she can see if her remaining collection is truly clean of if they are carriers. That is the only way Jen is ever going to find our for herself (not for you Big Giant Ass Clown Monsters... she owes you people nothing), if her collection is truly clean now. Maybe a couple other folks can donate a male baby as well so we have a good test group.

If you want to do this Jen let me know. I am more than happy to help out. And I dont want any results or anything else from you. Just you finding out for your own peace of mind is good enough for me.

 

[John E Dove]

One thing I dont understand is some people saying Jen should not take in anymore animals. When in my mind the only way Jen is going to find out if her current collection is safe is to bring in other animals. Her current collection may be fine and healthy, but that dont mean they are not carriers of the virus.

If Jen is willing I will donate a male Ball when my eggs hatch so she can see if her remaining collection is truly clean of if they are carriers. That is the only way Jen is ever going to find our for herself (not for you Big Giant Ass Clown Monsters... she owes you people nothing), if her collection is truly clean now. Maybe a couple other folks can donate a male baby as well so we have a good test group.

If you want to do this Jen let me know. I am more than happy to help out. And I dont want any results or anything else from you. Just you finding out for your own peace of mind is good enough for me.

I don't have any BPs but would be willing to throw in Pantherophis and possibly a Lampropeltis and Pituophis depending on if anything hatches out.

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

If you want to try that Jen~ I hatched some out last week~ I'll pay the shipping and send you both a male and a female 50% poss het pied. If you want to. If you don't~ and you feel that destroying your collection and moving on is the path for you~ I respect that too. Only you can decide where you want to take this now and I'm sure if you choose to destroy the animals it will be humanely and respectfully done~ but if you want to test I'll pay to ship a pair of the babies that hatched last week out to you.

PM me you address and shipping date if you like.

 

[varnyard]

One thing I dont understand is some people saying Jen should not take in anymore animals. When in my mind the only way Jen is going to find out if her current collection is safe is to bring in other animals. Her current collection may be fine and healthy, but that dont mean they are not carriers of the virus.

If Jen is willing I will donate a male Ball when my eggs hatch so she can see if her remaining collection is truly clean of if they are carriers. That is the only way Jen is ever going to find our for herself (not for you Big Giant Ass Clown Monsters... she owes you people nothing), if her collection is truly clean now. Maybe a couple other folks can donate a male baby as well so we have a good test group.

If you want to do this Jen let me know. I am more than happy to help out. And I dont want any results or anything else from you. Just you finding out for your own peace of mind is good enough for me.

Now that is what this hobby is about, helping each other. I think that is an awesome idea Sammy, that would lay all the fears to rest.

So, are you going to help Jen find out the true facts? Or are you going to continue this sad quest? These questions are for all of "Big Giant Ass Clown Monsters" as Sammy calls them.