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JENNIFER HARRISON GOOD GAL!!!

Just a thought but what about a bleach dip?
Take the racks apart, clean them as well as possible by hand, then completely submerge the pieces in a bleach/disinfectent/nuclear waste kiddingsolution. That should cover every inch of the racks.
 
reagorfu said:
i have read this entire thread, but thanks. :)

Obviously you haven't since you are mentioning some pretend person named Dan...A boa...and you have no knowledge of the numerous vets she was dealing with... :shrug01: In fact, not EVERYTHING is posted here (a lot, but not all). She has several pages of her web site DEDICATED to this situation.
 
RE disinfecting the racks -

A long Wisconsin winter spent out in the snow and ice isolated from any viable hosts should effectively kill any remaining pathogens. No matter how resilient this virus may be, it can't live off of plastic for long.
 
TripleMoonsExotic said:
In fact, not EVERYTHING is posted here (a lot, but not all). She has several pages of her web site DEDICATED to this situation.
i am sure that nothing on her website is biased either. i have read this thread, not her website. did i say that i have researched her situation? no, i said that she, imo, seems in the wrong for trying to get by with this. i am not the only one who feels this way, so everyone who does not think the same way as you is wrong? that sounds like one of my wife's crazy arguments. lol. i think that she is in the wrong, you don't. good for you, glad you into giving people multiple chances.

as for the dan guy, i was going off memory, i thought that it was a dan who got wyatts snakes sick. sorry.
 
You can't say a cold winter will kill off any virus. Since we don't know how long this virus stays viable in the environment, let's just look at one that is common and does stick around - parvo. To kill parvo, you specifically need a 1 part bleach to 30 parts water mixture, and even then it's hard to get in all the cracks. A cold winter protects that virus and it remains dormant during that time, becoming infectious again when it warms up. Although this virus may or may not be that resilient, you just have to think about the worst case scenario just in case.
 
reagorfu said:
i have read this thread, not her website. did i say that i have researched her situation? no, i said that she, imo, seems in the wrong for trying to get by with this.

If you have not researched the situation, how do you think your posts is based off of anything but pure opinion and speculation? :shrug01:

Why aren't you after the real culprit of this situation (Wyatt)?

reagorfu said:
as for the dan guy, i was going off memory, i thought that it was a dan who got wyatts snakes sick.

That's exactly why you should read before you post. :shrug01:
 
SPJ said:
Just a thought but what about a bleach dip?
Take the racks apart, clean them as well as possible by hand, then completely submerge the pieces in a bleach/disinfectent/nuclear waste kiddingsolution. That should cover every inch of the racks.

Steve,

That would work provided you can completely submerge the the pieces and that you replace the solution if it becomes soiled.

Best

Dan G.
 
The BoidSmith said:
Steve,

That would work provided you can completely submerge the the pieces and that you replace the solution if it becomes soiled.

Best

Dan G.


Dan, Steve,

Would you guys put $50,000-$100,000 worth of snakes in those racks after a bleach dip and feel 100% safe?
 
shrap said:
Dan, Steve,

Would you guys put $50,000-$100,000 worth of snakes in those racks after a bleach dip and feel 100% safe?

No. :ack2:
I guess the only way to ensure there is no contamination to anyone elses collection is to destroy the racks. :shrug01:
 
I don't know how valuable these racks are, so perhaps just throwing them out would be best for peace of mine (and to protect from criticism from the peanut gallery)
But, boiling in water is considered to kill most vegetative bacteria and viruses. If it was a bacteria that might be a different story, as some spores can survive boiling.

If the racks cannot tolerate boiling, and if you have access to any kind of science/medical facility, Ethylene oxide is considered to kill pretty much everything, is acceptable for medical use (thus I *hope* should be acceptable for snakes), and is a gas so permeates very well. The difficulty is, of course, finding a place that will do it for you.
 
ophidile said:
I don't know how valuable these racks are, so perhaps just throwing them out would be best for peace of mine (and to protect from criticism from the peanut gallery)But, boiling in water is considered to kill most vegetative bacteria and viruses. If it was a bacteria that might be a different story, as some spores can survive boiling.

If the racks cannot tolerate boiling, and if you have access to any kind of science/medical facility, Ethylene oxide is considered to kill pretty much everything, is acceptable for medical use (thus I *hope* should be acceptable for snakes), and is a gas so permeates very well. The difficulty is, of course, finding a place that will do it for you.

So, the people who are concerned that this unknown virus, with unknown transmission means and unknown dormancy period could spread to other peoples collection are the "peanut gallery". :rolleyes:
 
SPJ said:
So, the people who are concerned that this unknown virus, with unknown transmission means and unknown dormancy period could spread to other peoples collection are the "peanut gallery". :rolleyes:

LOL :rofl:

Yeah go figure.... Buy hey, id rather be a Crazy than an Overconfident.
 
SPJ said:
So, the people who are concerned that this unknown virus, with unknown transmission means and unknown dormancy period could spread to other peoples collection are the "peanut gallery". :rolleyes:

Yes, some people here are very knowledgeable, but some are not... I get the feeling some commenters think of this virus as a hollywood monster; able to resist all known sterilization methods, lay latent longer than any quarantine time, and transmissible through any vector.

From her journal, apparently the BOI has such gems of info as "the first one to get sick has to be the carrier, it came from a snake she had 7 months ago and lived in my carpet" which is totally untrue; some animals may be more susceptible to a disease than others, and the carrier certainly need not be the first one to die (in fact, the longer it lives while infected, the better a carrier it is!). PEANUTS.

According to her information, the virus is very probably a Paramyxovirus - which is an enveloped virus, and are extremely short-lived outside their hosts. Enveloped viruses need fluid (this includes aerosolized droplets from a sick/sneezing snake) and if they dry out, they are out of commission.

There's legitimate concern, then there's concern over one-in-one-billion-odds. And then there's also lack of medical understanding ("leave them outside in the winter") = peanuts. From what I can see Jen is trying very hard to be responsible and also recover after something devastating happened to her. It's one thing to take reasonable precautions, but I get the feeling some people wouldn't be happy unless she started completely from scratch (including moving to a new house). That's their right, but I don't think it's reasonable to demand.

The infection happened half a year ago, and was very rapid. I, personally, would consider isolating the previously sick (even if now healthy) snakes, 4 months of quarantine for the uninfected, sterilization, and *making sure to inform all customers of the problem and that they have a clear understanding of what to do and look for* would be more than adequate precaution.
(for what it's worth, I'm an MD/PhD student, have done some work in anthrax labs and with retroviruses, which doesn't mean I'm infailable but I do have some basic understanding of viruses and handling biohazards)
 
ophidile said:
Yes, some people here are very knowledgeable, but some are not... I get the feeling some commenters think of this virus as a hollywood monster; able to resist all known sterilization methods, lay latent longer than any quarantine time, and transmissible through any vector.

From her journal, apparently the BOI has such gems of info as "the first one to get sick has to be the carrier, it came from a snake she had 7 months ago and lived in my carpet" which is totally untrue; some animals may be more susceptible to a disease than others, and the carrier certainly need not be the first one to die (in fact, the longer it lives while infected, the better a carrier it is!). PEANUTS.

According to her information, the virus is very probably a Paramyxovirus - which is an enveloped virus, and are extremely short-lived outside their hosts. Enveloped viruses need fluid (this includes aerosolized droplets from a sick/sneezing snake) and if they dry out, they are out of commission.

There's legitimate concern, then there's concern over one-in-one-billion-odds. And then there's also lack of medical understanding ("leave them outside in the winter") = peanuts. From what I can see Jen is trying very hard to be responsible and also recover after something devastating happened to her. It's one thing to take reasonable precautions, but I get the feeling some people wouldn't be happy unless she started completely from scratch (including moving to a new house). That's their right, but I don't think it's reasonable to demand.

The infection happened half a year ago, and was very rapid. I, personally, would consider isolating the previously sick (even if now healthy) snakes, 4 months of quarantine for the uninfected, sterilization, and *making sure to inform all customers of the problem and that they have a clear understanding of what to do and look for* would be more than adequate precaution.
(for what it's worth, I'm an MD/PhD student, have done some work in anthrax labs and with retroviruses, which doesn't mean I'm infailable but I do have some basic understanding of viruses and handling biohazards)

ALL I want to know is why more people that bought from (WYATT) Havent come forward as to having this problem? Can anyone still Blame this coming from him? Just a question folks. No need for the Bullcrap! Just a plain and simple answer will do..
 
Disinfecting is no longer the topic here, so why not drop it? It doesn't matter anymore. I have to figure out what I'm doing with them. The Madison recycling center won't take them either, I already called. So, I need other ideas on how to dispose of them.

I consulted more vets in this country than any of you probably would have. 3 separate ones here in this state, 1 in Florida, 1 in Colorado (that was also sold sick snakes from Wyatt and suffered multiple deaths), and 1 in Germany (recommended to me by the Sutherlands) -- not to mention the ones across the U.S. that Dr. Gordon consulted with for advice on my behalf. They made decisions based on their experiences, education, and knowledge -- and also based on the various test results we were getting, which were all across the map. Do you people tell your dog's vet he's wrong when he tells you to do something, or do you trust him based on how many years he went to school and that pretty degree he has framed on his wall? Why the hell would I have had any reason to ever doubt what was being told to me by professionals in their field? Only 2 were not routine reptile vets -- the rest involved were all reptile specialists and reptile keepers themselves. I think a certain poster here needs to read before he runs his mouth about sh*t he doesn't know a damn thing about.

If I were trying to "slip one by", don't you think I'd be sparing my clown, my spider, my yellowbelly, my reduced patterns and my morph babies and trying to sneak them out the door somehow? Nope. They're on the euthanasia roster, which has been moved forward to tonight. I can't afford to pay for them all to each have a lethal injection, so they're being put into CO2 chambers my dad made out of coolers for me. This isn't something I'm very happy about, but I don't have a damn choice in the matter. The only two that aren't being put to sleep are my 2 normal pets -- because I can't bring myself to kill the ones that I've had from day one. If I was concerned about money, I'd be trying to save the most valuable snakes. But I seriously could give less than two sh*ts at this point. I've lost pretty much everything, and have no way to get it back. Now I have to be a murderer and kill my animals -- look at their faces while I put them into bags to be suffocated to death, and then pack up their dead bodies afterward. How the f*ck do you think that makes me feel?!? Seriously!? Especially when it comes to the babies that I watched hatch from their eggs, the rescues I saved from death and turned into healthy breeders, and the babies I bought back in the beginning that I hand-raised to breeder size and will never see again. Do you think this is an easy choice for me? I've already watched over a dozen of them writhe in pain and die horrible deaths, despite everything I tried to save them. I've already brought 2 to their death at the vet's office so they could be euthanized, get chopped apart, and have tissue samples removed from their brains, hearts, lungs, liver, and whatever else and shipped 2,000 miles south to be researched. I've already wasted thousands of dollars on medicines, treatments, necropsies, blood tests, tissue samples, virology, overseas phone calls and shipments of illegal vaccines, you name it --only to not be any better off than when I started -- and actually be worse off than if I'd just tried to hide it and sell everything off and be done with it. I could have gone Wyatt's route -- as soon as this virus reared its ugly head, I could have dumped everything on a mass scale at dirt cheap prices to offload it and get what money I could out of it. But I chose not to, to try to do things the right way. Did I make mistakes in judgement? Yep. I shouldn't have put my babies up for sale or sold these racks. Luckily I had friends that made me think more clearly and revise my decisions before anything left my posession. So that makes me a bad guy? I don't think so. Let's see how clearly you think when your husband's deployed to Iraq, you're working 3 jobs, raising your daughter by yourself, dealing with expensive vet bills, watching your animals die in front of you, being attacked by the one community you felt a part of, losing thousands of dollars in the blink of an eye, now facing a nasty divorce and somehow having to figure out how you're going to rebound, get out of debt, and still keep a roof over your child's head. If any of you want to call me a bad guy after this, you can go shove it up your ass. Or bend over, and I'll gladly do it for you.

Cathy, Mark, Stef, Brian, Dan & Colette, Garrick, Kyle, and my other friends that have been here for me and stood up for me -- words cannot express how thankful I am to you guys for your advice and support over the years since I first got into snakes. I wish I could have met all of you in person, but I feel lucky enough to have known you online. Thank you.

I'm done here.
 
jasballs said:
ALL I want to know is why more people that bought from (WYATT) Havent come forward as to having this problem? Can anyone still Blame this coming from him? Just a question folks. No need for the Bullcrap! Just a plain and simple answer will do..

One additional individual already has (a vet).
The others either aren't aware of the BOI or scared poopless of being crucified like Jen has been.
 
There were 2 others besides me. The vet in Colorado, and the kid that bought a one-eyed pastel from him. The kid didn't have money for a necropsy, but posted about it becoming sick and killing a couple of his other snakes in Wyatt's BOI thread. The vet in Colorado lost the het pied he bought from Wyatt, and its mate that he had put it with for breeding. They both tested positive for OPMV.
 
JenHarrison said:
I can't afford to pay for them all to each have a lethal injection, so they're being put into CO2 chambers my dad made out of coolers for me.

I read somewhere that CO2 doesn't work well with snakes. I think the freezer would be the best way to go. My vet told me once that the freezer is a very humane way to put down a reptile. They pretty much just go to sleep. Good luck whichever you choose.
 
TripleMoonsExotic said:
One additional individual already has (a vet).
The others either aren't aware of the BOI or scared poopless of being crucified like Jen has been.

That sucks! I know of atleast two breeders that bought from Wyatt around the time jen did.. They are now selling offspring from those animals I believe.. This is going to be Ugly for alot of people!! Should I do my part and post the breeders names? Or just post the link from here the BOI, Where they posted there props to Wyatt?
 
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