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    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

JENNIFER HARRISON GOOD GAL!!!

JenHarrison said:
I'm not dogging anyone that offered to donate animals to me. I'm just asking that they forego that idea in favor of something else that will be more productive toward the goal of nailing this damn thing down.

No Jen....you asked us to give the snakes to other people. And when no one jumped up and volunteered, you pretty much called us all liars.

You are right about one thing though, you weren't "dogging" us, you flat out shit on us.
 
JenHarrison said:
But now I see that people only offered to donate animals because they knew I didn't want them and they wouldn't have to actually come through, but yet making the offer made them look good and earned them brownie points. No one actually wants to follow through. I originally asked that people sell the animals and put the money up to help out the cause as this virus affects everybody, or donate whatever amount of cash they could come up with -- and all sorts of people promised that they would, even moreso after I put down my collection as they "felt better" about it. But when it came down to it, NO ONE came through.

David (and everyone else that misread my last post) -- I got all sorts of offers from people for free animals. How many times did I tell everyone "Thank You", over and over and over again? More than I can count, as I don't think I missed anyone, and I sincerely meant it every time. My annoyance has to do with all those that promised to donate toward the research, but never actually followed through. I'm vexed because people are willing to donate some $3500 animal to me, but can't send $20 to the University of Florida to help get one more lab test done on the samples that they have, waiting to be worked with. This makes no sense to me -- and it seems like people are just making empty promises to look good vs. actually wanting to get anything done. This is disappointing and hurtful -- because that means my animals died in vain, and everything I lost was for no reason, and every dollar I had to work overtime for was spent with no purpose -- because nobody really cares about the outcome. As has been mentioned many times, this virus has a huge potential to explode and spread because there are an unknown number of people out there that could be harboring it in animals they got from the source. The only way anyone is going to have any kind of chance for a defense against it is if we get answers through Dr. J's research...which has been completely stopped until he gets more funds to continue it. As it is, I sank myself even more by withholding 2 from the freezer and giving them to Dr. Gordon for euthanasia and sample prep -- another $700 I didn't have to give. But I did it because the reptile community needs answers, and those snakes' organs were the only way to get them. Do you know how it feels to have a dozen people say they're willing to help offset that, then no one does? I feel like people really don't give a crap after all.

I'm not dogging anyone that offered to donate animals to me. I'm just asking that they forego that idea in favor of something else that will be more productive toward the goal of nailing this damn thing down.

Oh yeah, comparing the two posts I can see where everybody made that misreading mistake.:rolleyes:

Ever stop to think about the financial situation people are in now? In between your moments of riding the high horse and swimming in a pool of pity did you notice the unemployment rate is up? Did you notice that the housing market has crashed to the point most mortgage companies are looking at 30 - 65% defaulted loans because folks can't pay their house payments? If folks are having a hard time paying their bills or putting food on their table , how do you expect them to donate to research that only affects 1 niche in society?

Congrats , you lost your collection to a nasty virus , Want a cookie? You did nothing more than I expect from anybody else in this hobby.

As it is, I sank myself even more by withholding 2 from the freezer and giving them to Dr. Gordon for euthanasia and sample prep -- another $700 I didn't have to give. But I did it because the reptile community needs answers, and those snakes' organs were the only way to get them. Do you know how it feels to have a dozen people say they're willing to help offset that, then no one does? I feel like people really don't give a crap after all.

I don't know many NOT going thru a hard time right now. As much as we may feel the research is needed , not everyone can crap $20 or $50 right now like they could a several months ago.

If my situation was different I would have likely donated but as it stands I haven't worked since June 12 , 2007 because I was hurt at work and fired for it. Lo & behold the company had no insurance so I've spent the past 14 months fighting for medical coverage and thats far from over. I'm at least $20k in debt now ( and climbing ) and will need $50k - $150k in knee surgeries. Its likely even with a judgment or court order I won't see a dime from the company since its claiming to be broke and may shut down before things get better. So its likely that all the debt I'm drowning in now and the cost of the surgeries will come out of my pocket. And to top it off , I can't work until I get MRIs to have a doc list my limitations which ain't looking to happen none too soon.

With that said , just how in the hell am I supposed to crap $20 to donate so you stop patting yourself on the back and sleep at night all warm and fuzzy that your not the only one in the world that gives a damn about this hobby?

For the love of Christ , shoot the high horse , burn the soap box and drain the damn pity pool already. My sympathies have been beat past the point of no return.
 
JenHarrison said:
This is disappointing and hurtful -- because that means my animals died in vain, and everything I lost was for no reason, and every dollar I had to work overtime for was spent with no purpose -- because nobody really cares about the outcome.

Whats disappointing and hurtful is you laying that crap on our shoulders because your quarantine sucked. Your animals died in vain due to 2 people , YOU and WYATT , nobody else.Its bad enough you disrespected some damn fine folks with the post before this one and then you drag your narrow , drama lovin ass back here to vomit this garbage.

Don't think I wasn't sympathetic about this , I was until your dog and pony show wore thin. Nobody deserves to be screwed over. Nobody deserves for you to come here and lay a big ass guilt trip on them either , over your mistakes and decisions no less. Any sympathies I had are looking to have been wasted.

Some of the folks you've managed to crap all over are some of the best folks ever. A few have my utmost respect and admiration to the point that I consider them the bar and standard I feel I should achieve and hold myself to. You have reached such a pathetic and self righteous low that you could never , in this lifetime or the next , remotely come close.

This idiocy falling out of your piehole makes me want to reach through my screen and smack the crack out of your ass. Since you are out of the hobby do yourself a favor and find your way out here. It would be best if you said nothing else since what you've said already is more than enough. Load your soapbox and your pity pool on your high horse and ride off somewhere where somebody may give a damn. Cuz I'm looking around and I don't see no hugs & cookies with your name on them around here.

For some reason I missed this part and rereading it just pissed me off. The gall of some people. I can't finish this post without getting a 3 day and this :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: twit just ain't worth it. Does what should be expected and still the :censored: won't stop tooting her own horn long enough to shut the :censored: up.



Damn , sprained my finger hitting the :censored: icon too much. :ack2:
 
Again people who can't read a few post back...I was asked what I have done you.....!!!!

What was that about only feeling shame when you've done something wrong? Calling people names of that nature is pretty degrading to the writer IMO. (Even if it is left to the imagination.) Hopefully John, you're not so ethically challenged that you do not feel shame for having done so.
 
Bryon nailed it.
It DOES go back to Jen's horrible quarantine procedure. And of course, Wyatt has to shoulder half of the blame also.
I DID feel sorry for Jen at one time.
Those days are over.

Randal
 
critical bill said:
The way I tell my story is somewhat different than your version. Please allow me to define.....

I am the old oak tree that really loves to swing his nuts through the air. If you do not revel the idea of my awesome nuts resting on your head at some point then I would highly recommend that you to watch where you stand while you stand beneath me.

You see that there Irkle, mine is a much better version than yours. ;)
My version is that once upon a time there was a great old oak tree to which you were attached. The old oak was blown away during a violent storm to a distant site. You too were blown away at the same time, but the nut being so light in weight in comparison to the tree was blown back when the wind shifted. Since the location that the old oak landed at is known, It is hopeful that given the modern methods of transplanting large trees that the great old oak tree can be brought back to it's original site. It often takes a year to transplant a large tree because much healing is necessary in the root system. Gott in Himmel, Kimmel. I like my version better. Now back to regular programming.
 
lanceheads said:
Bryon nailed it.
It DOES go back to Jen's horrible quarantine procedure. And of course, Wyatt has to shoulder half of the blame also.
I DID feel sorry for Jen at one time.
Those days are over.

Randal

I still feel sorry for her. This all really sucks. And the truth is~ I'm still not entirely comfortable that I understand exactly what happened or why. All I know is I'm afraid to bring ANY new animal into my collection because the best quarantine I can give would share a ventilation system.

At any rate~ that's been addressed repeatedly here~

Jen rose fast~ went from the new guy buying her first BP to being a "Breeder" in the public eye in what seems to me like overnight~ and she burned just as fast. It's a shame to see.

I don't like being guilted into making a donation~ Seems I'm on everyones list. Everyone has a good cause and choosing where the $$ you can donate goes when so many needy hands are presented is difficult. So I feel a bit resentful as others have indicated they do that Jen was snotty about how we SHOULD be helping her. She needed to be slapped down for that. She was. But please people~ all you people that have been behind her from day one~ don't forget she's just a person like all the rest of us. She said something that got our necks up in a stupid moment. I don't know Jen~ I don't think I've ever traded PMs with her or visited with her..........(in fact~ I'm not sure I even like her......that's awful to admit~ don't be offended Jen~ I don't know you well enough to consider you a friend)............BUT~ All you people that have been her friend............do you really have enough friends to burn the ones you do have just because of a couple stupid posts? And all of us who have not been her friend............lets do remember........ALL OF US have been known to make a stupid post or two.

Jen~ I can't even find buyers for the animals I'd like to sell ~ the economy is rough right now~ so I'm not going to be looking for a buyer for a pair of animals I offered to GIVE to you. I'll give you the animals if you want them~ you pay shipping and I'll ship them where ever you want. Get one of your friends to sell them for you or sell them yourself and tell me where to ship them if you need the $$. I can't afford to pay shipping right now (I've made myself other obligations) but my offer of 1.1 50% poss het pieds still stands. Since I never heard a word from you when I made the first offer on May 5th and have not heard a word from you since renewing the offer on August 23rd I feel the need to set a time limit though. I'll hold them for you until September 1st~ If I've not heard from you by then I'll consider the offer refused and put the two animals back in my inventory.

Good Luck Jen~ It's been a tough road for you.
 
IMHO I feel as tho she is still putting others at risk with still having those two other snakes alive. Even if she doesn't do much or anything with other people who are in the herp world. This virus can still go air born if those "pet" snakes are carriers since they have been both subjected to it. I don't see why she put all her snakes down except for that one because it was her "first" snake. I'm sorry but if I ever had anything like that in my collection and it was best to put all of them down, I would for there sake and for the rest of the snake/herp world's sake. I'm shocked to see that she still is keeping the gstripe and that other one alive while it is plain and simple that this virus hasn't been caught and handled and stopped by vets or medicine yet.

After following this whole thing I have to honestly say that I'm scared to go to herp show because who knows what those animals or people have running thru there collections that aren't telling anyone a thing.
 
I'm just gonna say, offering a free (or cost of shipping) animal while she put down her collection and others are criticizing her for keeping two pets, etc, is a real backhanded "gift", no matter what the intent is. Even before she realized how bad things were, why would she want another mouth to feed that was almost guaranteed she couldn't sell for years (even if nothing else got sick) without getting dogpiled here? I respect her for NOT sentencing more snakes to death.

Save your venom for someone who's actually a scumbag. Lots of people here need to STFU (including Jen).

... and me. Over and out.
 
I agree with Allision Espically about the concerns with going to shows. Who knows who has snakes from Wyatt or even snakes that have been traded since then from guys who bought from him originally. Not everyone keep details of a snakes original owner or how far back that snake goes I'm guessing?? I know a lot people do but it only would take a few not doing so, that a few of these snakes slip through the cracks. So I might think it would safe to assume we will never be 100% safe of this virus at any point. Then again this probably ain't the first virus nor will it be the last. Wiping this virus out I think shouldn't change the pratice of quarantining a newly bought snake. I know thats not a sure thing!!! Yes not all can do this I'm aware of that. But for now it's the best line of defense I see personally... thats my "opinion". Or avoiding Buying/Selling and who can do that when thats your buisness your trying to make a living off of???

JOHN
 
ophidile said:
I'm just gonna say, offering a free (or cost of shipping) animal while she put down her collection and others are criticizing her for keeping two pets, etc, is a real backhanded "gift", no matter what the intent is. Even before she realized how bad things were, why would she want another mouth to feed that was almost guaranteed she couldn't sell for years (even if nothing else got sick) without getting dogpiled here? I respect her for NOT sentencing more snakes to death.

Save your venom for someone who's actually a scumbag. Lots of people here need to STFU (including Jen).

... and me. Over and out.

When I made the original offer was when she was telling us her collection was now clean. My offer was intended to allow her to bring in two clean animals and see what happened. I offered two with the idea that if they survived and her collection was in fact clean it would give her something to bring up and work with to rebuild her collection. If they got sick~ then she would know her collection or environment was not clean afterall. In the mean time she discovered for herself that her collection was not in fact clean and destroyed most of her collection. Since I had not heard from her I assumed she had no interest in the two animals I offered and left it at that. Then she posted how she resented those offering animals and not coming through. My offer stands as I made it and she can do whatever she wants with the animals. She can bring them into her home and see if they get sick or not~ she can have them sent to one of the two people she requested the offered animals be sent to~ she can sell them and have me ship them to her buyer.
 
ophidile said:
I'm just gonna say, offering a free (or cost of shipping) animal while she put down her collection and others are criticizing her for keeping two pets, etc, is a real backhanded "gift", no matter what the intent is. Even before she realized how bad things were, why would she want another mouth to feed that was almost guaranteed she couldn't sell for years (even if nothing else got sick) without getting dogpiled here? I respect her for NOT sentencing more snakes to death.

Save your venom for someone who's actually a scumbag. Lots of people here need to STFU (including Jen).

... and me. Over and out.

I believe you are another one who has opened their mouth without actually reading or comprehending the entire series of events. Some of us offering to donate an animal to her was a bad thing, because she didn't need another mouth to feed? Uh, she was BUYING animals at the same time. But we're bad because we would be placing a burden on her? :shrug01:

I offered the albino to her to keep as a PET, if and when she knew things were safe to bring one in. BEFORE she put her collection down. Not all of us consider only the monetary aspect, believe it or not, some us keep animals simply because we like them, and don't care if we will be able to make money off from them. If, down the road, she chose to breed it, when she knew things were safe....fine. If not, fine. I happen to have the brother and mother to the albino girl she lost, Maggie, and they both have the same sweet temperament she did, so thought it would be a nice gift to give her when things had gotten better. End of story.

My issue did not come forth until she asked us to give the snakes to others, and then called us liars when we did not immediately agree to such a thing. She insulted and hurt those of us who have stuck by her and tried to help her throughout this whole ordeal.

None of this means that my views on what has happened through the whole mess - I still stand by what I have said through it all. It doesn't mean what she said pissed me off any less, because it was a mighty crappy and hurtful thing to say.
 
All of that said....

I'm still honestly very interested to hear Seamus's methods quarantine procedures, and what he would recommend to those of us who cannot house animals in completely separate buildings. The whole "venitlation system" thing has gotten me to thinking.
 
The saddest part of this whole thing is a good breeder lost everything to someone else neglect. Not saying since then, other problem have rose up, but it did start with the jerk off who sold that first snake. I also hate the fact that a whole hell of a lot of snakes were sold from this person, over time, and God only knows what happened to them. Especially if this looks similar to RI, most would not think twice. Jenn's two snakes in her home, are nothing compared to the people who boght snakes from the original jerk in the last few years. Who's going to admit it, or want to even think it when they look at the snake. Jenn's done, but the rest are ot there, spread far and wide.

P.S. Seamus is trying to breed tailess mice, he is very very busy in Southie. hahahaha
 
JenHarrison said:
because that means my animals died in vain, and everything I lost was for no reason, and every dollar I had to work overtime for was spent with no purpose -- because nobody really cares about the outcome

This whole situation has opened everyone's eyes to the dangers of another snake related illness that has the possibility to wipe out a collection. Regardless of how people feel about you personally, I believe reptile enthusiasts will be much more careful where they get their reptiles from and how they quarantine them. This situation you've been through has really got people thinking and therefore your loss was not "in vain".

JenHarrison said:
The only way anyone is going to have any kind of chance for a defense against it is if we get answers through Dr. J's research...which has been completely stopped until he gets more funds to continue it.

What is that "chance" in realistic terms? Call me a pesimist, but how many years and how much money has been invested in IBD research? I've heard it was millions in time and money.. How close are we to finding a cure to IBD? I've heard we are not even close to finding a Cure for IBD. And lets put this all in perspective.. It's been said that this new illness only affects a small "nitch" in society as a whole and I agree.. How long has it been since we've found a cure for anything that affects human health? I watch the rapid rise in Autism and billions given to that cause, yet everyone is still arguing over why and how? Or Aids.. sure big pharma is selling buckets of expensive meds to treat symptoms.. But How close are we to an actual cure? And the end of the day the only thing we will have is preventative education IMO... Same with IBD or AIDS for that matter. This whole situation has been worth it's weight in gold when it comes to the education of prevention. I think the entire community could sell everything they own give it all to Dr. J and still not be one step closer to an actual cure. Like I said call me a pessimist.. just the way I see things.

Chris White
 
Please pay attention to this post...

tex959 said:
Or Aids.. sure big pharma is selling buckets of expensive meds to treat symptoms.. But How close are we to an actual cure? And the end of the day the only thing we will have is preventative education IMO... Same with IBD or AIDS for that matter.
You clearly don't know anything about the history of the world HIV/AIDS pandemic. In this country, where there is the best funding for treatment, AIDS has gone from an acute disease that kills fairly quickly, to a chronic manageable disease in which most victims can live pretty much average life spans as long as they maintain adequate treatment. As for a cure? Please name me one viral disease that has been cured. You can't, because there aren't any.

As for the people (mainly Jen) talking about a cure for this apparent viral disease...it will NEVER be cured. Why? Because, first, (as previously stated) there has never been a viral disease that has been cured. Second, there will never be enough money invested to adequately test for any kind of treatment. To think that everyone can "pitch in" a few dollars in order to make a difference is naive at best. The only thing that might be discovered is the causative agent; however, that won't cure anything...it will only attach a name to the disease process. The ONLY cure is prevention... I.E. QUARANTINE.

Having said that, I'm not buying this whole "separate ventilation system" requirement for an adequate quarantine. As someone who knows a few things about the transmission of various viruses, I don't think for a second that this transmission was through any part of the ventilation system. It just doesn't make sense. For one thing, viruses don't just randomly float through the air infecting whatever they come in contact with. They are usually spread by respiratory droplet (hence the term "airborne") or through direct contact with an infected individual. Since snakes don't have a true cough reflex (which propels the respiratory droplets in human illness), the likelihood of them transmitting a virus by an airborne vector (respiratory droplet) is slim at best, and extremely unlikely if the two animals are in separate rooms.

The transmission had to be through contact by Jen. I don't care what she says about her "sterile procedures," I know that she wasn't practicing strict quarantine precautions due to the fact that she has already admitted to the fact that she made a number of mistakes in her procedures (however, I'm too lazy to go back and dig out the exact quotes). If someone wants to be totally sure that they're not transmitting something, then they need to wear rubber gloves (and preferably clothes covers, i.e. a disposable gown, etc.) when handling any animals in quarantine. They then need to dispose of the gloves within the quarantine room, and remove the gown (and dispose of it in the quarantine room), or change clothes before going into their main facility...but more importantly, there is no substitute for good hand washing! Infection control specialists in hospitals have shown this statistically over and over again.

Wyatt sold Jen a sick snake, and Jen didn't quarantine it properly...and we've all seen the end result. The problem was not some new "super virus," the problem was the lack of proper quarantine...and the ventilation system had nothing to do with it...regardless of what Jen claims.

My main point in this post is this... The extremes of airborne precautions that have been proposed in this thread are ridiculous. They don't follow known methods of disease transmission in reptiles, and quite frankly there are only a few human diseases that they would even be applicable to (primarily TB which isn't even a virus). I am concerned that people are "demonizing" this new "scary, mystery virus" to the point that they're no longer paying attention to the facts surrounding viral disease transmission.

Thanks for reading. :)
 
Dr Owens said:
My main point in this post is this... The extremes of airborne precautions that have been proposed in this thread are ridiculous. They don't follow known methods of disease transmission in reptiles, and quite frankly there are only a few human diseases that they would even be applicable to (primarily TB which isn't even a virus). I am concerned that people are "demonizing" this new "scary, mystery virus" to the point that they're no longer paying attention to the facts surrounding viral disease transmission.


THANK YOU DR. OWENS!!!!!
This has been driving me nuts this entire thread!
 
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