JENNIFER HARRISON GOOD GAL!!!

[Dr Owens]

The way everyone is talking about a virus being so hard to spread I don't see how this thing wiped out Jens collection? Did she not wash her hands between animals, or do the new arrivals in the quarantine room after taking care of her main collection?
I just cant believe that without breaking those basic quarantine standards an airborne virus can not be spread to other animals.

If that is the case, then why should a breeder shut down their collection for any length of time after having a virus like this one, or IBD pass through their facility? Why not just disinfect everything and then resume business as usual, or maybe shut down for 3-6 months. As long as they practice these basic quarantine procedures there would not be any risk that it had infected the rest of the animals in the collection, right?

Sorry, I just don't think it should be treated that lightly. I think Laura set the standard for the way a "good guy/gal" should be expected to handle something like this. Hell, most of you consider me a "bad guy" and that is what I would do. I don't think it is right to risk spreading this to other collections and wiping out who knows how many animals and other peoples investments because you can not do what is necessary to prevent it when faced with the decision.

Wow...you really are "slow" aren't you?

 

[RJK890]

Quote Sammy:
Robert, you have a very serious reading comprehension problem or you are a troll.

Awesome post Sammy .

Quote Jasballs:
x10!

Genius! Are you a freelance philosopher also? x10, x10, x10, I like pitza Steve. John you are an idiot, and should sober up before you post again.

It seems like the good Doc is saying that shipping infected animals is not a risk at all. In fact that having infected animals in the same facility as your main collection is not a risk either, as long as you wash your hands between animals and take care of those animals in quarantine after taking care of your main collection. Did I comprehend that wrong Dr. J?

 

[Dr Owens]

It seems like the good Doc is saying that shipping infected animals is not a risk at all. In fact that having infected animals in the same facility as your main collection is not a risk either, as long as you wash your hands between animals and take care of those animals in quarantine after taking care of your main collection. Did I comprehend that wrong Dr. J?

Yes you did. Please go back and re-read my posts, and then show me where I said the things that you claim.

Perhaps you are the one who shouldn't drink and post.

 

[dsirkle]

Awesome post Sammy . Genius! Are you a freelance philosopher also? x10, x10, x10, I like pitza Steve. John you are an idiot, and should sober up before you post again.

It seems like the good Doc is saying that shipping infected animals is not a risk at all. In fact that having infected animals in the same facility as your main collection is not a risk either, as long as you wash your hands between animals and take care of those animals in quarantine after taking care of your main collection. Did I comprehend that wrong Dr. J?

I'm not too bright but what I get from the good Doctor's commentary is that the virus is spread by direct contact and not by airborne means. Therefore sanitary handling is the key to prevention.

 

[RJK890]

Quote Myself:
Seriously, would you want animals that were being shipped to your house riding in a truck or sitting in a hub with Tommys G-Stripe, the Helix, or the water bowls and hide boxes she was shipping?

Quote Dr.J's response:
Honestly, I don't think that I would think twice about it. In fact, I'm confident enough in this statement that I'll say this...
If Jen wants to send me the two remaining animals, I will quarantine them utilizing appropriate quarantine procedure...and without a separate facility or a separate ventilation system. I will keep them for a year, and if they remain healthy, I will ship them back to her. However, if they begin to show symptoms, I will go ahead and put them down (because it's the right thing to do).
That's right...I'm confident enough in what I'm saying that I will put my entire collection on the line to prove it. That's hundreds animals worth hundreds of thousands of dollars (although the current market might have affected the numbers a bit). I know that I know what I'm talking about.

Well I comprehended the fact that you said you would not think twice about having any animals that were being shipped to you ride in a truck or sit in a hub with any of the infected stuff Jen was, is, or intended on shipping, to mean that either you feel that there is no risk in shipping infected animals, or could care less about putting yours or other peoples animals at risk. Then the fact that you ivited Jen to ship those animals to you made me lean towards the fact that you feel that there is no risk in shipping them as it would really now be your animals at risk.

Quote Dr. J:
...Snakes can forcefully expel air. However, they do so at a MUCH lower velocity than a human can. Primarily, because they do not increase intrathoracic pressure behind a closed glottis prior to expulsion, rather they force air through an open glottis. This lower velocity expulsion will result in much larger respiratory particles being expelled...which means that they can hardly travel very far at all. Add to this the fact that the respiratory droplet has to escape the cage (which is no small feat in and of itself) before it can travel through the room

Again the fact that you invited Jen to ship those animals to you and the fact that you were going to keep them in the same facility as your main collection using just Quarantine to prevent it from spreading to your other animals is what made me think that you were saying that as long as a keeper were to practice proper quarantine it is not a risk to the other animals in a collection if an infected animal goes through their facility.

Maybe I do have a reading comprehension problem . I hope so, because the only other option Sammy left is that I am a troll.

Oh well, Say what you will. I think the other two animals should have been destroyed along with the rest of them. Why kill 40 helpless animals if you are going to keep two alive. That's right, because 40 pets is a lot of work. If these two animals are kept alive the others died in vain.
Everyone keeps saying "leave Jen alone, why don't you go after Wyatt?" Why? Do you think Wyatt cooked this thing up in a lab for the purpose of sending it out into the community? I am sure somebody shipped it to him, why not "leave him alone, and Go after them(Sarcastic.)" They both handled it wrong, and neither one is a "good guy" the way I see it. Take Care .

 

[BryonsBoas]

As it is, I sank myself even more by withholding 2 from the freezer and giving them to Dr. Gordon for euthanasia and sample prep -- another $700 I didn't have to give. But I did it because the reptile community needs answers, and those snakes' organs were the only way to get them.

Why are some still focusing on her keeping 2 animals. It would appear they are now samples and not pets.

She sold the racks to an auto garage , time to get over it now. I doubt said garage is hiding a breeding group of BPs to eventually sling a terroristic widespread infection into the reptile community. I doubt any of the cars receiving parts stored on those racks will be any worse for wear as well.

For every good piece of info or comment or argument I see in this thread , I see just as many dumbass arguments.

Come on now , its not that hard to follow and if you've kept up with the thread its obvious that there was a breakdown in the quarantine or another animal was the infected one. The BIG clue shoulda been Doc posting what he did about the lack of potential spread from the air system. That in itself left only 2 possibilities.

Do some of ya'll just skim posts? Damn , get a clue already.

 

[shrap]

Maybe I do have a reading comprehension problem . I hope so, because the only other option Sammy left is that I am a troll.

Well there is a third option, but I am trying to be nice tonight and didnt include it.

 

[shrap]

That in itself left only 2 possibilities.

Bingo!!!! Thank you Bry!!

 

[RJK890]

Bryon,
The 2 snakes in your post are 2 different animals then we are talking about. She kept those 2 for samples. She was going to keep lucky and spoon as pets but lucky wasn't so lucky after all. She put lucky down but kept spoon as a pet. She also kept Tommys G-Stripe alive as well and now he doesn't want to have it shipped back to him because of the possability of the infection spreading. Jen now has spoon and the G-Stripe.
Damn, did you skim this thread or what...lol.

 

[BryonsBoas]

Bingo!!!! Thank you Bry!!

Thats what I'm here for bro.

 

[leasa]

Can I just say, I like Dr. J. You sound like my doc, except she uses way more colorful words when telling me I'm slow.

 

[BryonsBoas]

Bryon,
The 2 snakes in your post are 2 different animals then we are talking about. She kept those 2 for samples. She was going to keep lucky and spoon as pets but lucky wasn't so lucky after all. She put lucky down but kept spoon as a pet. She also kept Tommys G-Stripe alive as well and now he doesn't want to have it shipped back to him because of the possability of the infection spreading. Jen now has spoon and the G-Stripe.
Damn, did you skim this thread or what...lol.

Can you point that post out to me? The section I quoted was in her last post and the way I understood said post was the 2 left were given as samples. Her wording isn't the greatest so I may have misinterpreted what she posted.

Even if she kept the two , whats the point in beating it 10 ft in the dirt. Its two males correct? If she is out of the hobby what is it really hurting for her to have them? If she changes her mind and takes up the offers of donates to create a new control group then so much the better. After the beat down she took here , who thinks she'll just jump right back in the hobby? Anybody who knows of this thread , any thread it was mentioned in , her myspace etc. can get word out if the situation changes.

At this point the nit picking is asinine. Some folks are just going after anything to have something to bitch about.

Now I'm off to reread posts to see if my clue needs upgrading.

 

[LakesideBoas]

Hey, Robert, I think you may have missed something too. Jen did not have a separate quarantine room, she had no other rooms to use as one so she kept her new arrivals on the other side of her snake room from her other pets, her established animals.

It sucked big time that she had to do things the way she had to because she had no room. Once the effective quarantine was broached her entire snake room became a quarantine room and the established animals in her collection became ill as a result. Had she been able to quarantine the initial snake that she got from Wyatt from the rest of her collection they may have been spared and she would not have had to do things the way they happened.

As it is she is a much sadder but wiser person and I would not wish what she ultimately had to do on any one of us.

 

[LakesideBoas]

To be fair, Bryon, I thought this was the case also. This thread has been very hard to follow at times so if you find different please do tell!

Bryon,
The 2 snakes in your post are 2 different animals then we are talking about. She kept those 2 for samples. She was going to keep lucky and spoon as pets but lucky wasn't so lucky after all. She put lucky down but kept spoon as a pet. She also kept Tommys G-Stripe alive as well and now he doesn't want to have it shipped back to him because of the possability of the infection spreading. Jen now has spoon and the G-Stripe.
Damn, did you skim this thread or what...lol.

 

[BryonsBoas]

To be fair, Bryon, I thought this was the case also. This thread has been very hard to follow at times so if you find different please do tell!

I found it quoted farther back that she dropped two for samples and kept the two. Mentioning it in her last post had me thinking she dropped Spoon & the G-stripe putting herself in $700 more debt. Its striking me as odd that she even bothered to mention it again in her last post like she did.

Oh well , my clue has been upgraded.

 

[LakesideBoas]

Howin'ell do you guys find things so quickly??

Don't beat yourself up, you almost need a score-card to follow this thread at times.

 

[johns6068]

To be fair, Bryon, I thought this was the case also. This thread has been very hard to follow at times so if you find different please do tell!

Your not lying about hard to follow!!! Put skimming in there also and it doesn't take long for one to get tripped up. It's amazing how well some of you do follow as well as you do=)

I think Dr Jay and Sammy summed things up nicely earlier with the wonderful points they both made. Very Good advice =)

 

[Cat_72]

Why kill 40 helpless animals if you are going to keep two alive.

Um, did you happen to read the part about where more animals were getting sick? Including Lucky? She euthanized the animals that were sick, and to prevent the others from having to possibly suffer the awful fate of the illness, and to prevent the chance of any further spread. Is that wrong? I don't think so.

I BELIEVE Jen said that Spoon had been in a different area than the others, I'd have to read back on that one (and don't really have the time at this point)....but even so, I'm sure he would be euth'd at the first sign of any illness. Regardless.....keeping one animal as a pet isn't hurting anyone, IMO.

Was there ever a post emphatically stating that she was going to keep the gstripe, after being given permission to euthanize him? I don't recall such, but I could be wrong.

And to compare Jen keeping one (or perhaps 2) snakes as pets to Wyatt purposely continuing to ship out snake after snake KNOWING that he had this illness in his animals is, well.....what's dumber than moronic?

We could all keep rehashing all of this coulda shoulda woulda crap over and over, but it ain't gonna change anything, and seems to be pretty pointless at this point. Ask the same questions 847 times, I bet you get the same answers 847 times, you know?

Hopefully others have learned from the mistakes made. At this point, that's about the best any of us can hope for, because lord knows no one is EVER going to be open and admit they had this kind of problem again.

 

[BryonsBoas]

At this point, that's about the best any of us can hope for, because lord knows no one is EVER going to be open and admit they had this kind of problem again.

I have a feeling that will be a very sad reality. After the beating and paranoia in this thread , I can't see anyone else making a public claim in the future. To be honest , if I knew someone going through something similar and were doing the right thing by closing the colony & seeking the proper testing etc. , I don't think I'd even suggest them going public.

Of the people that use gloves, how many change them between animals?

I do when I have the gloves , otherwise I clean my hands between critters.

2. 90 days quarantine minimum. And while I know everyone dont practice the following, I do. Lets say you got an animal in the quarantine room for 2 months and then you bring a new animal into the quarantine room. Now every animal in there is starting over on day one. I dont know for sure what that new animal may have passed on to the ones that were already there so I take no chances.

We've upped our Q-time to 6 months. We have limited room for Q-time so anything new goes in the same room and everything starts from scratch with a new addition. We have animals that have been in Q-time for 14 months just because of the odd times that new arrivals come in. For some reason we can't get them in in batches.

 

[Cat_72]

To be fair, Jen DID say that she was keeping the gstripe as a pet....not that I think that it makes any difference.

Since yesterday, Tommy PM'd me and asked me just to hang onto it instead of sending it back. He said he doesn't mind if I freeze it, but would prefer it if I just kept him as a pet with Spoon since he felt bad that I hadn't gotten to keep Lucky like I had wanted to. And considering that I don't have any reason not to, that's the plan. Neither are hurting anything or anyone by living in my room. Neither will ever leave my posession for any reason, nor leave my house.