Jerry Conway: Seller's Perspective?

[Jungle Gems]

I may be completing a transaction with Jerry Conway of www.kingsnake.com/candoia. He has asked me to send the snakes to him before he decides if he wants to purchase them or not. Jerry seems to have a good reputation in the herp industry thus far, however, searches about him turned up only older threads from a buyer's perspective (although all hailed Jerry as a good guy). I was wondering if his request for me to send the snakes before I am payed is reasonable. I usually do not even ship first in trades unless the trade is with someone I have done business with in the past. I believe he is legitimate, but I'm still rather uneasy about conducting business in this manner. Any personal reviews of Jerry Conway would be appreciated, especially those from the seller's end. I'm sure he's a good guy, I'd just like some confirmation.

Thanks!

Jennifer Webb
(Jungle Gems Exotics)
www.JungleGemsExotics.com

 

[David Reid]

One question, can you afford to lose the snakes in question?

If you cannot, I would not send anything without money in hand. If you can, then good luck.

 

[reptilebreeder]

I would trust him enough to send snakes to him first, say in a trade or something, but I wouldn't send anyone my snakes JUST to determine whether they even wanted to buy them.

 

[Jungle Gems]

In response to David Reid, no, I cannot afford to lose these snakes and am not particularly anxious to let them go either. They are Eastern Hognose Snakes and as I live in Colorado it is difficult to obtain food for them (not impossible, just difficult and expensive).

Jerry says that he has not purchased a snake sight-unseen for twelve years. I did send him one digital camera image via e-mail for each of the snakes (and would be glad to take more from many different angles if requested). Here is an except from an e-mail I sent Jerry a few minutes ago in response to his request...

"Pending good feedback on the FaunaClassifieds Board of
Inquiry, I may consider your offer. I have never shipped any
animal before receiving payment, and rarely ship first in
trades with individuals whom I have done prior business. I am
somewhat concerned that, as you have admittedly never owned
hognose before, you may not know what to look for in regards
to the quality of the animal (excluding general signs of
health as can be seen in all species). I would have referred
you to the site Hognose.com, but it was taken down recently
as it got very expensive for the owner to maintain. Barring
there are no bad reports on Fauna and you have a good buyer's
reputation as well, my fiance or I will contact you via phone
to set up shipping arrangements (or I will send you our
number so that you may contact us)."

I believe I am being reasonable to give it some contemplation, but I have never had this asked of me before. I want to be fair to Jerry, but at the same time I have learned the hard way in the past that you can never be too careful.

Jennifer Webb
(Jungle Gems Exotics)
www.JungleGemsExotics.com

 

[reptilebreeder]

Jerry says that he has not purchased a snake sight-unseen for twelve years. I did send him one digital camera image via e-mail for each of the snakes (and would be glad to take more from many different angles if requested)....

Pretty stingy? (don't know what word I'm really looking for here) standards considering he runs a snake business over the internet. I wonder if he'll ship me a pair or two of his candoia for me to "test drive" before I purchase? Anyway, I wouldn't do it if it were me. We're not talking about a five or six figure animal, for a "normal" sale like this, good photos, and a standard guarantee should be more than sufficient enough. But that's just me.

 

[Ken Foose]

From a business standpoint alone, I would not send the snakes without money up front. If for some reason he decides he does not want the animals, you can always have him ship them back and you can give him a refund, minus the shipping of course. It does not matter who it is, make yourself a policy and stick to it. Mine is that I don't send anything without money up front, I don't send first or the same day on trades, and, unless I know the fellow really well, like for decades, I don't pay for animals up front. If the seller on the other end does not like my policy on this, I offer to accept the animals COD if needed. This is just to insure that I get what I'm paying for. There are just too many con men out there now days. Prime example: been trading and buying from a guy for the past couple years. I always insisted he ship first, then I would either send out the trade animals or the money. This worked well for a long time. Then one day, it was "I need the money up front so I can buy the animals to send to you." I sent the money, I have not heard from this person since, no money back, no animals, no answers to my phone calls or emails. Lesson learned: I have the policies I established for a reason, and I won't make the same mistake again. Nor should you make such a mistake. Good luck to you whatever you decide.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Not a chance

Jennifer

If good digital photos are not sufficient for him to make a decision then let this one go. In 12 years of sales I have never had anyone even ask for anything so prepostorous. It would be one thing if he wanted the animals shipped to a third party who was holding the money because he thought you might not ship after payment but just to decide whether or not he likes them? Not a chance

 

[Jim O]

Another country heard from.....

I agree with John. No way, no how, no where!! He can see all of the snakes in pictures. If they are misrepresented, he returns them and gets his money back. If they are as described, he keeps them and you keep the money. To me "sight-unseen" is without pictures.

I understand his reasons and he is entitled to them. I would pass this one up. Just like he will probably do the same if you do not accept his terms.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Jennifer,

In my opinion you should not have to worry with Jerry. He has run his business for years and has an established reputation with candoias. There is general agreement that the person offering the trade should ship first. In addition, this deal is now in the open for everyone to see, that in itself would reassure me of a uneventful outcome. By the way, the hognose is doing wonderfully, he eats like a pig.

Thanks,

Dan

 

[Jim O]

Jennifer,

In my opinion you should not have to worry with Jerry. He has run his business for years and has an established reputation with candoias. There is general agreement that the person offering the trade should ship first. In addition, this deal is now in the open for everyone to see, that in itself would reassure me of a uneventful outcome. By the way, the hognose is doing wonderfully, he eats like a pig.

Thanks,

Dan

Dan,

This is not a proposed "trade", it's s sale.

I may be completing a transaction with Jerry Conway of www.kingsnake.com/candoia. He has asked me to send the snakes to him before he decides if he wants to purchase them or not.

Jerry says that he has not purchased a snake sight-unseen for twelve years. I did send him one digital camera image via e-mail for each of the snakes (and would be glad to take more from many different angles if requested).

The buyer wants them shipped subject to his liking them. He feels that a seeing a picture is buying snakes "sight-unseen". Frankly I don't care what his reputation is or how in the open this proposed transaction now is. This is beyond the bounds of "standard operating procedure" to me. Why should he get "special treatment". Its cash on the barrel, then I sell. If he wants to "window shop", he can go to Jenn's house and look the snakes over.

I would pass unless he wants to use an escrow service at his expense, and even then I would still prefer to find someone else who wants to buy from me.

 

[pch101]

"There is general agreement that the person offering the trade should ship first."

Actually, Jerry wants to buy them, but have them shipped to him first before he pays for them...

I understand that Jerry is trustworthy, but he is not experienced with hognose snakes. What if he gets these and decides they are not his cup of tea. That is a lot of unnecessary shipping stress and risks that these snakes may have to endure for no reason. I personally would not do it. But that's just me.

 

[cthulhu77]

Wouldn't even consider it for a moment...there are many others out there to sell snakes to, without such outlandish demands. It's nice that he has such a good reputation, but really...
greg

 

[The BoidSmith]

Jim,

You are right, I had forgotten about the first post, and the way the whole thing was being conducted led me to believe it was a trade. It is obviously not a standard way of conducting business. But in my opinion this is a judgment call on Jennifer side for her to act the way she feels more comfortable with. As far as getting “special treatment”, once people establish a reputation they usually get it. Without comparing Jerry to anyone, we all probably know of names that get snakes shipped and payment goes out later. They have a very well earned reputation which I respect. Yes, I agree that pictures are usually enough, although not always (not yours Jennifer ). Yes, it’s not SOP as you say and maybe both you and I would have passed, but maybe Jennifer decides not to, and that would be fine too. Again, it’s a judgment call on her side.

Jennifer,

If you decide to do it you better make sure Jerry agrees in writingto pay for shipping both ways if he decides the snakes were not what he was looking for.

Kindly.

 

[Jungle Gems]

Conclusion

I'm sure that Jerry is a man of character, but it would not be fair to my other clients if I made an exception for him. I will not ship any of my animals before receiving payment and I will not be doing business with Jerry Conway until he gathers some basic information on the species (Jerry did offer to send a money order before my shipping the snakes). I hope I'm not being overly-zealous about purchaser requirements, but some of the questions that Jerry asked led me to believe he does not yet have sufficient knowledge of the Eastern Hognose to maintain a productive breeding program (or provide adequate care for this species).

For Example:

JERRY ASKED: "....are you sure they are easterns??....wouldn't texas be a western??....."

TO WHICH I REPLIED: "Eastern Hognose have the widest geographic distribution of any North American Hognose, and their range includes Texas
where they are seen more prevelantly than their Western
counterparts. These are definitely Easterns."

Another Example:

I SAID: "Both of the animals I have for sale are feeding on f/t Bufo spp. toads
but will accept live if offered."

JERRY REPLIED: "....i cant believe you feed them bufo!!....they are
the scourge of south florida...they are everywhere and have wiped out all
native frog species....i guess the freezing kills their toxins??...have you
ever tried scenting or putting a live toad in a deli cup while offering a
live hopper mouse??...."

TO WHICH I REPLIED: "What do you feed your Easterns? Bufo toads are the natural diet of both Southern and Eastern Hognose (Bufo as in Southern, Eastern and Texas Toads... not Cane or Marine toads!). There are many different species of Bufo living in North America. The Hognose can handle the toxins produced by these animals that would sicken or kill other animals. As far as scenting, it works great with Westerns but is usually not effective with wild-caught adult Easterns. Captive-bred Easterns take well to scented and eventually unscented mice, but wild-caught animals who are used to metabolizing the native toads do very poorly on a strictly rodent diet.
Freezing *does* kill parasites within the amphibian that could infest the Hognose once the toad is ingested."

I have the e-mails saved in their entirety, but I don't think posting them is necessary. Do you see my point? I know Jerry means well, but I would not feel comfortable sending these beautiful animals out to be entrusted to someone who, only a few days ago, didn't even know that Eastern Hognose ate Bufo toads, the dietary staple for these animals. It is my responsibility to these animals to make sure that they end up in the best care possible and if I don't find a person who meets that criteria I have no problem hanging on to them for the time-being. I will gladly sell the Easterns to Jerry once he has me convinced that he is knowledgeable enough about H. platirhinos to give them the level of care they were receiving here.

I don't feel I am being unreasonable in doing this. Of course I always hate to disappoint a potential customer, but how much more dissappointment would Jerry (and I) endure if the animals perished at his hands due to an entirely preventable issue?

To Dan Garcia- thank you very much for the kind words! I am elated to know that the L. pulcher is thriving in your care. He was always one of my favorites and never gave me any problems. Thank you for giving him such a great home. I believe Jim McDonald is expecting more hatchlings and I would suggest you contact him if he has any for sale. He's a great guy to do business with, as are you.

Thank you all for your advice!

Jennifer Webb
(Jungle Gems Exotics)
www.JungleGemsExotics.com

 

[reptilebreeder]

As far as getting “special treatment”, once people establish a reputation they usually get it. Without comparing Jerry to anyone, we all probably know of names that get snakes shipped and payment goes out later.

That's true. There are a few people I would send snakes to that have a 30 day or so billing period, but this is somewhat different. He wants the animals shipped to him, just to determine if he even wants them, and I personally wouldn't do that with anybody, even the people I would bill for payment.

 

[DAV6969]

Jerry is a trustworthy bud of mine!

don't hesitate to deal with Jerry,he's been around in the herp world as long as me,Dave Powell[over 20 years],you won't be dissapointed.cheers.Lanka!

 

[Alias47]

Not a chance...
I wouldn't take any offer of the sort...

Why chance the stress on the animals of a possible round trip for NOTHING??
You didn't even mention who would be responsible for shipping charges...
Why would he pay $80 bucks to take a look at them?

Even if he is one of the best in the business...he should realize that this is a completely unreasonable demand.


Ask him to send the money first...and you'll see if you like it...and if you don't, you'll send it back. Seems much less reasonable (if that's possible) when the shoe is on the other foot...

 

[Rebel Dragons]

Ask him to send the money first...and you'll see if you like it...and if you don't, you'll send it back. Seems much less reasonable (if that's possible) when the shoe is on the other foot...

Exactly what I was thinking.


Mike

 

[Jungle Gems]

Thanks, Dave. It should be noted to everyone reading this thread that Jerry's personal integrity never came into question. I wouldn't hesitate to do business with him in the future (as he gains experience with H. platirhinos) and still hope to. The only issue that came into play was that of "bending the rules" of regular business practices. He has done a phenomenal job with his Candoia and I can't wait to see the Heterodon he produces in the coming years.

Jennifer Webb
(Jungle Gems Exotics)
www.JungleGemsExotics.com

 

[reptilebreeder]

don't hesitate to deal with Jerry,he's been around in the herp world as long as me,Dave Powell[over 20 years],you won't be dissapointed.cheers.Lanka!

I don't think anybody is questioning his intergrity, in fact I myself said I would ship first to him in a trade or other deal, it's his "stance" that many are questioning. That of never buying an animal "sight unseen" in 12 years, when he in fact runs a business where you have to pay him up front (as it should be). Photos and a guarantee should be sufficient, that's how this business works, as he well knows. It just seems ridiculous to put animals through possibly two directions of travel, as well as the seller to have to go through the hastle, just to see if you even want to buy them.